Some beginner questions about the early game

[Memo]

I'm somewhat new to Civ IV. I'm trying to understand the logic behind some early decisions.
For example in this situation, where should I settle? The game recommends me 1N which makes me lose one turn but leaves me nearer to rice when the city grows but makes me lose out on the crabs at the beginning (I would have to wait for fishing anyway, right?)



Game specifics: Elizabeth, Noble, Epic.

I would really appreciate any kind of advice in this, and any other early game matter .
If I chose the wrong forum for this question, please accept my apologies.

 

[absimiliard]

Right forum.

I'd ignore the advice to settle 1N. You're English, you already have fishing, so giving up the crabs isn't a good idea. Rice for crabs is a kind of mediocre trade.

So I'd say settle in place, initial build would be work-boat.

(In general crabs are 4F the same as rice, but come with more commerce.)

-abs

 

[r_rolo1]

^^I agree... and as you're financial, that means that all that seafood will be a nice research boost as well ( as well as the lake.... with Lighthouse it will be 3F 3C, + 1C with Collosus )

 

[Rusten]

I'd risk moving to the forested plains hill tile. You get a free right from the start which means a faster work boat even with a turn spent moving and you get rid of 2 awful ocean tiles. By moving there the possibility of getting something good out of the wine and rice also increases (1 NW of wine for instance) as it's further away from London. Sure, you'll probably lose the fresh water bonus unless there's a river there I don't see but I think it's worth it.

Still when it comes to settling there usually isn't right and wrong, each spot has benefit and deficit in some regard.

 

[Refar]

I.g. ignore those blue circles - they will give inferior results more often than help you.

I.e. here i would settle in place. You have Fishing right away and are Financial, so crab beats rice. Also by going 1N you would pick up a desert tile (Flood Plain ?).

Anyway - if in doubt or not seeing a clear advantage to move - not 'loosing' the turn by moving should break the tie in favor of settling in place.

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

I'd settle 1 north if it wasn't for that desert next to the rice. I usually want as much land and as little coast in my capital's BFC because i'd much rather work a cottage than a coast tile. Hell, i'd probably still settle 1 north. Your current position has 2 ocean tiles in it, which are just awful tiles.

 

[Memo]

Thanks for replying!

Following the advice of most of you, I've settled in place. For some reason I forgot that England has fishing even when I noticed it at the start screen.

The ocean tiles worry me a little, it means 2 less cottages and only 1 food. On the other hand, I seem to have (or will have after London grows) enough food for SE thanks to the two crabs, the cows and the fact that I got Sailing from a goody hut (which would enable lighthouse earlier). However, the fact that I have no idea how to use SE makes it a hard decision.

I'm currently building a work boat (44 turns left ) and researching The Wheel (for pottery).

 

[StrategeryBush]

I'd settle where you're at. You will likely eventually get that rice anyway in another city's BFC. That crab you will never be able to work if you move 1N. Meanwhile, the extra commerce from the second crab will do more for your tech than the extra food from the rice square, especially since your city can keep growing while you build the second boat instead of a worker.

The extra ocean tiles are more useful when you have a financial leader, so there is not so much reason to avoid having them.

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

The extra ocean tiles are more useful when you have a financial leader, so there is not so much reason to avoid having them.

ocean tiles are worthless with any leader. They only give 1 commerce regardless of financial. Even with the moai statues its 2 food 1 hammer 1 commerce, exactly the same as working a riverside plains farm prebiology. Hardly something to write home about.

 

[absimiliard]

The two ocean tiles are annoying, but mostly at a theoretical level only. Realistically you aren't going be working all 21 tiles for most of the game. So you just don't work those tiles, no biggie.

Memo, I'm sorry, I should have said this before. "Welcome! Glad to see you, hope our forum is useful for you."

Regarding that long build time on the boats. You might want to consider going into your city screen and working something that gives you more hammers. Doing so may cause you to suffer a bit on food, but you'll more than make up for it with the food you get from getting the clams earlier. I personally would use the forest for 1F 2H, but I can see an argument for the 3H forested plains hill or a 2F 1H tile. My gut tells me 3H isn't enough better than 2H to be worth losing growth, and that 1H just isn't enough.

The AI's choice of early growth isn't horrible, I take it it's working the cows? But I think you're better off getting the boat faster than you are now.

-abs

 

[Memo]

Indeed, the game was working the cows. A quick change to the forest reduced the number from 44 turns to 15 (and growing went from 10 to 30).

Thanks for the welcome!

 

[OTAKUjbski]

I'd settle 1 north if it wasn't for that desert next to the rice. I usually want as much land and as little coast in my capital's BFC because i'd much rather work a cottage than a coast tile. Hell, i'd probably still settle 1 north.

If I knew what was around the rice and the southern crab, I might have considered settling 1N or 2ESE.

Your current position has 2 ocean tiles in it, which are just awful tiles.

I agree ocean tiles are bad, but those 2 ocean tiles won't factor into anything until the city breaks 18 population -- which is a long time from now.

Don't sacrifice your early game for such a small end game payoff.

I also support settling in place because you essentially only need 1 technology to set up your capital -- Bronze Working. Settling 1N would increase the immediate need for Agriculture and AH, which could slow your expansion.

I'm currently building a work boat (44 turns left ) and researching The Wheel (for pottery).

I think BW is a better first tech choice. I'd go BW > Agriculture > AH > The Wheel > Pottery.

After the first Work Boat, you can push out a Worker to chop out another Work Boat and Settler as well as improve my favourite resource, Cows.


-- my 2

 

[Memo]

I finished my first work boat. Now I'm working the crabs to get the city to grow to 2 and get the forest too. I'm not sure what to buy now. I could get another work boat to get the other crabs and, in that way, make the city grow even faster, or I could get a warrior considering that I have met two neighbours. It says work boats because I had to choose something but I haven't finished the turn yet so no hammers wasted.

After previewing this post:

I think BW is a better first tech choice. I'd go BW > Agriculture > AH > The Wheel > Pottery.

After the first Work Boat, you can push out a Worker to chop out another Work Boat and Settler as well as improve my favourite resource, Cows.

Ouch, I've already finished The Wheel and I'm 8 turns away from Pottery. Should I switch to Bronze Working (which is 16 turns away)?

 

[Walliard]

Ouch, I've already finished The Wheel and I'm 8 turns away from Pottery. Should I switch to Bronze Working (which is 16 turns away)?

I figure you might as well, seeing as there's nowhere to build cottages until you clear some forests.

 

[Memo]

I think I made a mistake by founding York where I did as it has almost no production besides the forest, but I wanted to secure that copper as Hammurabi is really near.
Where should I found the third city? I was thinking 2S from the gold at the left as that would give me access to the cows, the gold and the spices.
What should I take into account in these cases?

Thanks again!

 

[Commodore Nate]

I think that by founding York where you did, you can definitely go for an axe rush on Hammurabi. With sailing, you just need to expand your borders there (whip an obelisk if you haven't got one already) and your capital should get the bronze, so you can start whipping/chopping those axes.
And don't worry about production, that copper should be good until stuff starts to get expensive. After that, you can put workshops on the plains or build the Moai Statues if you feel so inclined.

As far as your next city, explore the land to the west of the forest near the gold to see if there's any (food) resources there. If there are, found either one or two west of the gold on the North bank of that river. That way you can put a city to get those spices with the cows and rice. Unfortunately, it's low production until watermills/workshops, so it's your call. Then again, your proposed city doesn't have spectacular production either.

 

[Polobo]

Third City: 1SE of the gold (diagonal between the gold and cows). This can be a heavy commerce city once Hannibal is gone and can provide specialists and whip production until then. It will also be defensible, leaving you to dedicate more of your resources to offense without having to worry about a counter-SoD.

Edit: Meant to write Hannibal

 

[schwartz]

2S of the gold seems a good choice but I'd try to get a better look at the coast to see if there's seafood W of the gold. If there is, 1W may be better, saving the cow and spice tiles for another city later on (maybe 1 N of the spices?).
edit: looking again 1W has at least 3 unworkable tiles so i'm not sure anymore..

 

[vicawoo]

monument first at york to spread borders. skip the granary until you have more cities, you want to pump settlers.

You can just run a library at york off the fish and cottage it.

 

[JBossch]

I would settle aggressively toward Hammurabi. Try to block him off with a city as far north as possible on the flood plain river. I recently boxed Hammy in totally on an emperor game and was really surprised at how slow he expanded. Axe rush is possible but IIRC his UU is an archer that gets a bonus against melee. That could be a problem.
Definitely get monuments first in York and any other early cities.