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Some musings on the Colossus

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by shyuhe, Jun 4, 2010.

  1. InvisibleStalke

    InvisibleStalke Emperor

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    GL is practically a gimme on Immortal if you want it. The AIs rarely prioritize Aesthetics and Literature - often if you don't build it then it isn't built until after 500AD. If you research Aesthetics after your worker techs you will get it.

    Its a very powerful wonder - by itself it practically guarantees that you will be first to Liberalism since that city can then have four scientists and the GPP from the wonder - it will pop out at least three scientists in time allowing you to get Academy + Philo + Education.

    Its expensive to build - my rule of thumb generally is not to bother with expensive wonders unless I am industrious or have the necessary resource. If I have stone I will consider Pyramids and if I have marble GLH. If industrious both of course.
     
  2. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Building TGL greatly slows AI lib path tech pace. Building mids slows tech pace in general a bit. Building sistine MURDERS rival culture attempts. Other wonders are not insignificant either.
     
  3. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    It depends on the AI teams your against. I know that Elizabeth prioritizes Aesthetics / Literature, and so do several others but I cant remember which. The AI usually have it build before I even start on Aesthetics. I usually cant slow down getting Iron Working / Currency / CoL before going for the GL, and by then its too late.
     
  4. vicawoo

    vicawoo Chieftain

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    Maybe if you have enough happiness resources (preferably double forge ones), you can justify delaying monarchy on a semi-isolation map.
     
  5. InvisibleStalke

    InvisibleStalke Emperor

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    Iron working is almost always a tech I trade for - its too much to self research and it doesn't help your economy. Swords aren't enough of a power bump over axes to make it worthwhile as a detour.

    Currency and CoL are also techs I would get after Aesthetics if I am going for the GL. Both are techs that help fund expansion - but neither make much difference until you have quite a few cities. Both are on more expensive tech paths - researching either of these will take longer than researching Literature, let alone both of them.

    I would consider getting CoL off Oracle - but that goes very quickly on Immortal and unless I have a start with gold or gems I wouldn't even consider it. Otherwise it can come later.

    The GL will up your science by +7.5 immediately and start blasting our great people - more than either of these techs will do for you for a long time.

    So yes - if I research Aesthetics after worker techs and have marble then I will get the GL first - even if Liz loves it.
     
  6. Orion Pax

    Orion Pax Warlord

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    Fun to see some love for the Colossus. Most important seems to be the early boost over cottages: 3 :commerce: right off instead of just 1 :commerce: / 2 :commerce: in the first 30 turns before a village. So: 90 :commerce: instead of 50 :commerce: for an early bonus. (Imagine this on marathon..)

    After that it still breaks even with a village of course, so this means you have time to reach techs & civics that speed up cottage growth and make villages/towns more valuable, so that when you switch to or add those land tiles it’s more economical. In the meantime you need fewer workers because you’re deferring cottage building.

    This of course only makes sense with a certain tech path, early Oracle -> Metal Casting, limited warring, etc. So may not be worth it all together if you’re not a peacemonger?
     
  7. ArchGhost

    ArchGhost Prince

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    Eh, a major consideration of Colossus is how many water tiles you really are controlling.

    Each city that might benefit from Colossus by working Coast/Ocean(if FIN) also has to get a Lighthouse, else the tiles are not food neutral and really not even worth working compared to a cottage or specialist at that point. So the sunk cost increases by an additional 60 hammers per city that will be working water, which makes the 120+125 hammer cost (wouldn't really try at all without Bronze, maybe if IND) deceptive.

    It's not that I dislike the wonder. It's fun to go thalassocratic and draw great economic power from the the sea, especially as Darius or Hannibal, and I have an inflated fondness for water tiles because of playing Civ Rev so much. But like many, many of the wonders, it's supplemental at best, which makes things like comparisons of tiles yields not very useful, IMO. Those direct comparisons also assume working the tiles constantly without whipping them, which is a whole other thing (which tiles to work when at "n" time in the game, etc).

    You can however look at the hammer investments required to utilize it and the economic opportunity cost of not using them for Wealth. The stage of the game where Colossus is most relevant is where Wealth is often the best build project option until you're ready to roll units out, so the hammer tradeoff is not insignificant unless you plan to (or have to) settle all your cities with tons of water tiles. And then work those water tiles as much as possible, placing more limit on whipping or specialist running.

    Other reasons for not caring much about it are:
    -Little incentive to go for MC early unless IND, really. Maybe if you want to Machinery bulb
    -usually one AI in the field will prioritize it. Remember AIs can always see at all times what wonder/tech option are open and will strive for their own monopoly on something, Metal Casting is always an option since every AI techs Iron Working
    -Land tiles are generally more powerful due to food/whip or specialist relationships and as sources of hammer yields, water tiles are food neutral at best except for resources and lakes. You don't want to bend over backwards for a wonder to improve the yields of a handful of tiles, you want to get a larger benefit for that investment. FIN trait is the biggest help to this.


    That said, there are situations where it can pay off wonderfully. The recent Joao noble's club game is an example, where there is is little land parceled to the human player yet a ton of islands and thus water tiles to work (and even then, because of all the "intercontinental" trade, GLH was MUCH more lucrative and important). Any map with a significantly reduced amount of usable land increasing the prevalence of working water ("island" type maps) can be immediately identified as Colossus-friendly.

    Financial also makes it much more attractive, as it can then buff even Ocean into 5 yield tiles with Lighthouse, and Lakes become nearly endgame power if eligible for a Lighthouse too.
     
    Orion Pax likes this.
  8. MAvL

    MAvL Chieftain

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    I think the weakest point of Colossus is how early it obseletes. It is worth mentioning that astronomy can be avoided for a very long time though, so if you don't need intercontinental trade routes and colonies (eg, there is no other continent, or you control within your cultural borders tiles leading to it), you can significantly extend the span of its use
     
  9. Orion Pax

    Orion Pax Warlord

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    Totally. The early expiration + such an expensive tech for early game + such an expensive building prereq... But I’ve totally found myself delaying Astronomy for that reason exactly. Again, more doable if as a peacemonger you don’t need to build up a navy to cross seas to invade.

    Though I’d be curious to know if preserving extra :commerce: from Colossus for several techs is more efficient than Astronomy’s boosts: observatories, trade routes, and clear pathway on to near endgame techs.
     

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