Some random obervations from the streams

[Seek]

Another random observation, uhm I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet in this thread:

Some policies take effect immediately (with a short delay for the UI to update all the yields/gpt/cpt/bpt/etc), while some take effect only on the next turn, ie Profesisonal Army for military unit upgrade discounts. This is fair, since one could theoretically switch to Professional Army, upgrade his units, then switch again the same turn without any penalty.

This however makes the policy system a little bit inconsistent, due to not knowing exactly if a policy change will happen instantly or later. I'm sure after a few games we will all adjust though...

It's also inconsistent within these parameters: professional army doesn't take effect until the next turn, but the diplomatic policy that gives two envoys for the first one sent takes effect immediately.

But it doesn't really matter, since one cannot change policies more than once per turn; it can't be exploited.

 

[Atlas627]

It's also inconsistent within these parameters: professional army doesn't take effect until the next turn, but the diplomatic policy that gives two envoys for the first one sent takes effect immediately.

But it doesn't really matter, since one cannot change policies more than once per turn; it can't be exploited.

But you can. Policy changes are free throughout the entire turn in which you discover a policy, even if you "confirm" the new policies. At least that's what it looked like in videos.

 

[Seek]

But you can. Policy changes are free throughout the entire turn in which you discover a policy, even if you "confirm" the new policies. At least that's what it looked like in videos.

Once you confirm policy changes you cannot change them again until next turn. I asked Filthy in one of his streams (I think the one on the first day) and he confirmed it, and I've seen it many times since when players mis-assign policies and try to fix them.

 

[Atlas627]

Once you confirm policy changes you cannot change them again until next turn. I asked Filthy in one of his streams (I think the one on the first day) and he confirmed it, and I've seen it many times since when players mis-assign policies and try to fix them.

Well thats good. But you could still do all your stuff from your old policies and THEN switch.

 

[Seek]

Well thats good. But you could still do all your stuff from your old policies and THEN switch.

That's true! Not quite so exploity though.

 

[narmox]

Thanks for the correction, I thought I had seen them be able to change policy multiple times in a turn. Perhaps they were paying gold for it and I hadn't noticed.

In this case, yeah, the behaviour really is inconsistent..

 

[narmox]

Another observation: Archaeologists escape from enemy units, they don't get killed or attacked. This is probably due to their being tied to the 3 artifact slots in the Archaeological museums, it would upset things if they died after excavating 1 or 2 artifacts then having to build a new one? Although I'd expect that new one to only be available once or twice if I understood that they are tied to the museums.

 

[Haggbart]

Another observation: Archaeologists escape from enemy units, they don't get killed or attacked. This is probably due to their being tied to the 3 artifact slots in the Archaeological museums, it would upset things if they died after excavating 1 or 2 artifacts then having to build a new one? Although I'd expect that new one to only be available once or twice if I understood that they are tied to the museums.

It would be nice if they worked like spies in CiV in that regard. So they would spawn at the museum again X amount of turns after being killed. So there would be some kind of penalty for being careless with them.

 

[pietro1990]

there is a bug in the diplomacy trade system at minute 18 you will see him trying to buy a great work o sythia he can buy it for 1 gold(not gold per turn)

Ai values relics nothing.... Seems a bug

 

[Sansa_Stark]

Is there actually any solid stream when somebody plays Scythia or Spain and tests/builds their UI? These are the only civs with UI in this build (other 5 are not included), and so far I am not 100% sold on their utility (maybe apart from Stepwells). I'd love them to be food and useful, since they are all really nice, and it would be obviously good for the game balance.

 

[Ikael]

Is there actually any solid stream when somebody plays Scythia or Spain and tests/builds their UI? These are the only civs with UI in this build (other 5 are not included), and so far I am not 100% sold on their utility (maybe apart from Stepwells). I'd love them to be food and useful, since they are all really nice, and it would be obviously good for the game balance.

Hear, hear. Unique Improvements seems markedly weaker on this civ iteration, specially when compared to Unique Districts.

The Stepwells add housing indeed... but so does farms and pastures, so I am not that sure that they are that useful.

The Kurgan seems very situational. If planted on a right spot it could give almost as much faith as a religious district (!) plus gold too, or it could be a total bust.

Spain's mission seems really weak in either case. Even maxing them out (putting them on other continent and next to a campus), they will have extremely low yields (+2 faith +1 science). Perhaps additional base faith or adyacency bonuses could be of help.

 

[Hinkel84]

Don't know if someone mentioned it yet.
There is a list of all units you have, when you click on the unit name:

 

[randomwalker]

No... Don't reduce the amount of Eurekas. (unless there are 2 Eurekas available and they each give 30% or so)

If Tech is going too fast, increase the base cost (or make tech less useful)

The Eurekas Should be something that you get many of without trying.
(....)

Fully agree.
Speed of research is controlled by base cost. High eureka ratings are actually a mechanism to slow down the race.

Think of eurekas the other way around: -not- having the eureka is a penalty for researching something your civ has no experience with. Developing navigation for a civ without ships should cost more than for a naval power. The eureka system encourages your to develop your civ in parallel with your tech (and culture) development, and penalises you for researching before your civ has passed the required stage gate.

You can also think of development as having a 'theory part' and an 'experience part' (or societal conditions if you prefer). The system currently allows you to bypass the experience part by paying double science. China has a cheaper theory part but pay correspondingly more for bypassing experience, making them more of a 'learning by doing' civ than a science powerhouse.

If tech is too fast, increase the base cost but leave the eureka % alone (or even increase it to encourage broad development vs beeline).
The default assumption should be that human players always have the eurekas, making the 50% cost the relevant one to estimating research times.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Hear, hear. Unique Improvements seems markedly weaker on this civ iteration, specially when compared to Unique Districts.

They are spamable while UD and UB are limited to one per city.

The Stepwells add housing indeed... but so does farms and pastures, so I am not that sure that they are that useful.

You get more housing from the Stepwells and it can also give both food and faith

Spain's mission seems really weak in either case. Even maxing them out (putting them on other continent and next to a campus), they will have extremely low yields (+2 faith +1 science). Perhaps additional base faith or adyacency bonuses could be of help.

On another continent they give +3 faith not +2 faith and they can give +3 science after a civic is researched.

 

[Quique30]

Fully agree.
Speed of research is controlled by base cost. High eureka ratings are actually a mechanism to slow down the race.

Think of eurekas the other way around: -not- having the eureka is a penalty for researching something your civ has no experience with. Developing navigation for a civ without ships should cost more than for a naval power. The eureka system encourages your to develop your civ in parallel with your tech (and culture) development, and penalises you for researching before your civ has passed the required stage gate.

You can also think of development as having a 'theory part' and an 'experience part' (or societal conditions if you prefer). The system currently allows you to bypass the experience part by paying double science. China has a cheaper theory part but pay correspondingly more for bypassing experience, making them more of a 'learning by doing' civ than a science powerhouse.

If tech is too fast, increase the base cost but leave the eureka % alone (or even increase it to encourage broad development vs beeline).
The default assumption should be that human players always have the eurekas, making the 50% cost the relevant one to estimating research times.

But wouldn't that lead to a pre-defined "best way" of researching? I'm afraid that persuing eurekas will induce a repetitive gameplay: You would no longer be teching according to your needs, but in a way where you can get the most eurekas as possible, switching techs research around until you can trigger them. Increasing tech costs or reducing eureka yields would not really change much, because it would still be the best way of going through the research tree (although it would be less impactful).

So, if Eurekas are, as I think, advertised as a game reaction to your playstyle... what if:

1) Boosts requirements are invisible and have some variability: No 2 games get the same requierements and you would not know what these are beforehand. By playing the game you would get them as true reaction to your gameplay.

2) If you switch research to another tech and then back, you would need to start that research from scratch. So no speculating and researching things you don't really need while waiting for conditions to trigger eurekas.

In any case, I hope something is done to the way eurekas work now. I don't feel they add anything insteresting in its current presentation.

(And sorry for my English)

 

[ZerrorR]

Aren't eureka system going to force players to go beelining more? I mean, are we going to have same builds again and again? To get this tech, I need this eureka, and to get this eureka I need that tech, which forces me to go for that eureka.

PS. Oh, look, great minds think alike

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Aren't eureka system going to force players to go beelining more? I mean, are we going to have same builds again and again? To get this tech, I need this eureka, and to get this eureka I need that tech, which forces me to go for that eureka.

PS. Oh, look, great minds think alike

Well hopefully it forces beelining in certain direction depending on what you do.

So if you are fighting wars, you will have cheap the military techs (and beelining them will work), but you will be behind on the civilian ones
If you are building instead of fighting, the military techs will be expensive for you, and the civilian ones will be cheaper.. (so it will be harder to aim for science/development bonuses and then catch up militarily)

so its not somuch science-.eureka boost, its production->eureka boost (and its what you are doing with that production)

Hopefully you won't be able to get all of them, but you will be able to get some of them without even trying (if you are a warmonger you will naturally get them.. if you are a peace monger you will naturally get others)

 

[Leyrann]

But wouldn't that lead to a pre-defined "best way" of researching? I'm afraid that persuing eurekas will induce a repetitive gameplay: You would no longer be teching according to your needs, but in a way where you can get the most eurekas as possible, switching techs research around until you can trigger them. Increasing tech costs or reducing eureka yields would not really change much, because it would still be the best way of going through the research tree (although it would be less impactful).

So, if Eurekas are, as I think, advertised as a game reaction to your playstyle... what if:

1) Boosts requirements are invisible and have some variability: No 2 games get the same requierements and you would not know what these are beforehand. By playing the game you would get them as true reaction to your gameplay.

2) If you switch research to another tech and then back, you would need to start that research from scratch. So no speculating and researching things you don't really need while waiting for conditions to trigger eurekas.

In any case, I hope something is done to the way eurekas work now. I don't feel they add anything insteresting in its current presentation.

(And sorry for my English)

I would argue it is actually the other way around: You get eureka's for that which you are working a lot on (eg you get a eureka for Archery by killing a unit with a slinger; you're making use of ranged units, so now it's easier to make more use of them, you get a eureka for Education by producing a Geat Scientist; you're making a lot of use of science, so you can discover education more easily), so when you're playing in a certain style, the techs in that style are the ones that you can most easily discover. Early on, you're playing towards your needs, and then the techs assosiated with those needs get cheaper, so it's easier to play towards them even more.

 

[ZerrorR]

I would argue it is actually the other way around: You get eureka's for that which you are working a lot on (eg you get a eureka for Archery by killing a unit with a slinger; you're making use of ranged units, so now it's easier to make more use of them, you get a eureka for Education by producing a Geat Scientist; you're making a lot of use of science, so you can discover education more easily), so when you're playing in a certain style, the techs in that style are the ones that you can most easily discover. Early on, you're playing towards your needs, and then the techs assosiated with those needs get cheaper, so it's easier to play towards them even more.

Well, that is exactly the point, we are going to see more or less identical playstyles. You want a fast scientific victory: Eureka>tech>eureka>tech. There will be only one viable strategy for that.

 

[darthtoon]

maybe the Eurkeas are easy to get, because of the easy difficulty that the developers put the previewers on?