Some random obervations from the streams

[Leyrann]

Well, that is exactly the point, we are going to see more or less identical playstyles. You want a fast scientific victory: Eureka>tech>eureka>tech. There will be only one viable strategy for that.

That is not what I meant, nor is it even remotely what I was talking about. If you have a game where you have a lot of barbarians, you will be fighting them, and gaining the eureka's for techs and civics that deal with combat, making it logical to go that route both because you have to deal with it and because you get cheaper techs. If, on the other hand, you don't have a lot of barbarians, but you're stuck on a relatively small island, you'll have a lot of coast, will be doing a lot of stuff related to it, and gain eureka's for techs related to the sea, giving you additional incentive to play in that direction.

So it does not push you into one single path, it actually makes you take a path depending on your surroundings because it's cheaper.

Also, can you maybe explain what you meant by "you want a fast scientific victory"? I'm not exactly sure what you mean with that... I mean, if you're going for a science victory, yeah, of course you'll be focusing on science and eureka's. That's the point of a science victory.

 

[Big J Money]

Posting here so this issue can get some more visibility.

There appears to be something wrong with Japan's UA. It's Meiji Restoration

I don't think there is any issue. Most civs get a .5 bonus. Japan gets an additional .5 bonus, summing to 1.

I agree it's a slightly confusing wording of the ability since they could have simply said "Japan gets a standard bonus, rather than a minor one" but you have to realize that the game lingo has been changing over development. Maybe they didn't used to have the terms "minor", "standard" and "major" when they originally wrote Japan's bonus and it originally made more sense. So they haven't updated it. But really, like I said they don't have to update it because my summing example above does make sense. There really is only the most slight confusion here.

 

[ZerrorR]

That is not what I meant, nor is it even remotely what I was talking about. If you have a game where you have a lot of barbarians, you will be fighting them, and gaining the eureka's for techs and civics that deal with combat, making it logical to go that route both because you have to deal with it and because you get cheaper techs. If, on the other hand, you don't have a lot of barbarians, but you're stuck on a relatively small island, you'll have a lot of coast, will be doing a lot of stuff related to it, and gain eureka's for techs related to the sea, giving you additional incentive to play in that direction.

So it does not push you into one single path, it actually makes you take a path depending on your surroundings because it's cheaper.

Also, can you maybe explain what you meant by "you want a fast scientific victory"? I'm not exactly sure what you mean with that... I mean, if you're going for a science victory, yeah, of course you'll be focusing on science and eureka's. That's the point of a science victory.

Sorry, I don't see it that way. Game theory suggest that such powerful tool as Eureka must be utilized by all means if you want fast win.

Nevermind if it is scientific or cultural. (I am using these types of victory because they are directly tied to Eurecas).

Nevermind if it is Pangaea or islands. Those are slight deviations from general direction.

Going through tech tree is/will be very similar across games if you want to utilize maximum benefits of eureka.

 

[SpaceCommunist]

I don't think there is any issue. Most civs get a .5 bonus. Japan gets an additional .5 bonus, summing to 1.

That's not an additional standard bonus, though. The bonuses are calculated as follows:

Minor - +1 for every 2 adjacent (or +0.5 for every 1 adjacent)
Standard - +1 for every 1 adjacent
Major - +2 for every 1 adjacent

The UA says Japan is supposed to be getting a standard bonus (+1 for every 1) in addition to the minor bonus (+1 for every 2), but instead they're either getting only an additional minor bonus or they just outright replaced the default minor bonus with a standard bonus.

There's nothing inherently wrong with an additional minor bonus, mind you - it's just that the UA says you should be getting more than that, and that's either an issue with the description or the coding itself.

I could see a situation like Apple without Steve Jobs - bereft of soul & personality. But I"m probably getting way ahead of myself...

>implying that Apple had a soul when Jobs was around

 

[gunnergoz]

(snip)

>implying that Apple had a soul when Jobs was around

I didn't say it was a nice soul...

 

[Leyrann]

Sorry, I don't see it that way. Game theory suggest that such powerful tool as Eureka must be utilized by all means if you want fast win.

Nevermind if it is scientific or cultural. (I am using these types of victory because they are directly tied to Eurecas).

Nevermind if it is Pangaea or islands. Those are slight deviations from general direction.

Going through tech tree is/will be very similar across games if you want to utilize maximum benefits of eureka.

No. That's only if eureka's are too strong. If you're going out of your way to get every single eureka, and end up ahead in science without being behind otherwise, then they must be utilized by all means, but it also means that eureka's are too strong. What eureka's should do, is to increase the "playing the map" style that Firaxis is going with, by making you stronger in those areas that are important for you, while making you weaker in those areas that are not important for you. Wheter that's the case or not at launch, I don't know, but that's what they should do. And that, basically by definition, increases diversity.

 

[gunnergoz]

I think the Eureka/Inspiration system may have an interesting side effect in that some people don't flourish when offered multiple (as opposed to mostly binary) choices and this system may frustrate those sorts who prefer a linear way of progressing through a game. Civ VI is not only about choices, it is about having lots of choices, perhaps a bewildering assortment that may overwhelm newbies and/or those whose style prefers fewer options.

 

[ZerrorR]

No. That's only if eureka's are too strong. If you're going out of your way to get every single eureka, and end up ahead in science without being behind otherwise, then they must be utilized by all means, but it also means that eureka's are too strong. What eureka's should do, is to increase the "playing the map" style that Firaxis is going with, by making you stronger in those areas that are important for you, while making you weaker in those areas that are not important for you. Wheter that's the case or not at launch, I don't know, but that's what they should do. And that, basically by definition, increases diversity.

Sorry, but no. Eureka is OP, in my opinion. And why would I go for all the techs if I have specific goal in mind? I would go only for techs needed to achieve, let's say, scientific victory, and for that I would need only specific eurecas... Simplest and fastest. Surely we'll see bunch of how to guides in the first month. My bet is under 200turns on deity will be beaten within a week.

 

[Jordanius of Belta]

I agree, Captured settlers should become workers, not stay a settler.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Sorry, but no. Eureka is OP, in my opinion. And why would I go for all the techs if I have specific goal in mind? I would go only for techs needed to achieve, let's say, scientific victory, and for that I would need only specific eurecas... Simplest and fastest. Surely we'll see bunch of how to guides in the first month. My bet is under 200turns on deity will be beaten within a week.

Problem is... that The Eureka moments shouldn't get nerfed. Because then they will become to weak, if they gave you a 25% boost to each tech/civic then that doesn't seem nearly as worthwhile as a 50%.

If anything I think they should increase the core cost of each tech so that the "ideal" way is to have ALL of the Eurekas and Inspirations when researching in the game.

The whole idea of the Eureka/Inspiration system was to give it the feeling of "That civs that start on the coast have a much easier time understanding the Sailing technology as opposed to nations who are landlocked".

 

[Atlas627]

But if they are made to be hard to obtain, then on higher difficulties they become something not worth the effort to pursue, and becomes something like Tribal Villages, i.e. nice to have, but not anything to be part of the grand strategy. The opportunity cost must match the rewards. So to keep Eureka moments relevant, if we make them hard to obtain we must also make them much more powerful.

And then that acts as an incentive for players to always obtain the few select Eureka moments for the important technologies and civics in every game. Those Eureka moments will act like built-in sling-shots that practically make or break every game on higher difficulties. Wouldn't it?

I don't know about that. Not every eureka should be hard. Some of them should be more difficult so they're harder to get on purpose, while others should be easier so you might fall into them by accident and be encouraged to pivot to a new strategy.

And as with any theoretical discussion about game balance, we are surely imagining different amounts of hard to get. I am imagining a sweetspot, you are imagining that we've gone overboard with making them harder than they are worthwhile. If we DO make them harder than they are worthwhile, then your conclusion is fair. I think we can find a good spot, and that that spot is further in the difficult eureka direction from the current build.

 

[Soduka]

I'm glad the Eureka system is in the game because in opens up a fantastic number of ways it can be utilized in Mods. The way it has been implemented in the base game is trash though. Reeks of jellybean dropping that Facebook mobile games engage in to keep people interested. I was hoping when Eureka was revealed it would be critical boosts for truly specializing your empire or a really specific way of growing into a unique form of your Civilization due to your starting location.

That will surely be where Mods take it and I can't wait to see that but Firaxis has clearly decided to go after casuals with their implementation.

 

[SpaceCommunist]

On the topic of Eurekas/Inspirations: maybe they should be reduced from 50% to 40%. This would serve two purposes:

1. It would retain the big value provided by the Eureka/Inspiration mechanic while not being too overtly powerful and still requiring more than half of the Science/Culture cost to be put in

2. Indirectly buff China's UA; a 20% difference in Eureka/Inspiration boosts would be a lot better than the current 10%.

 

[Tatran]

Captured settlers should become workers, not stay a settler.

A captured settler should add one foreign population (original civ) in one of your cities. No free settler or builder.

 

[randomwalker]

But wouldn't that lead to a pre-defined "best way" of researching? I'm afraid that persuing eurekas will induce a repetitive gameplay: You would no longer be teching according to your needs, but in a way where you can get the most eurekas as possible, switching techs research around until you can trigger them. Increasing tech costs or reducing eureka yields would not really change much, because it would still be the best way of going through the research tree (although it would be less impactful).
(....)

Interesting point about 'best way', but I will turn it on its head: rather than 'teching to get the full benefit' of eurekas, I would 'play the map to get the full benefit'.
I normally go through tech trees in mostly the same way anyway (the 'best' for my preferred playstyle), but in civ vi that means i have to line up my research on the map, not just build campuses. 'Switching techs around until you can trigger them' means research is being delayed compared to earlier civs.

The main effect I see from eurekas is indeed that you will halt cutting-edge research while waitign for stuff on the map. The other is that it encourages you to dabble in everything (exploration, trade, early wars, all types of units) rather than hyperfocusing on science output. Both these pull your game 'towards the middle ground' which can indeed make strategies more similar. But not enough to dent the replay value, and as said I tend to tech in the 'best way' regardless. In fact, the eureka system may (i hope!) play better together with the civ specific abilities/units/etc, making teching feel different for different civs.

If 'teching is too fast' means 'there is not enough time to play with units before they are replaced', then the key is higher base cost but eureka system tries to help by requiring you to play the map.
If 'teching is too fast' means 'I reach atomic age while AI is still in medieval', then eureka system has mechanisms to discourage science-spamming beelining tactics. HOWEVER players will still optimise and if the AI struggles and ends up wasting science it would just make the problem worse.
(and i won't be surprised if at higher difficulties the AI simply gets eurekas for free).

(side note to anyone suggesting china gets a relatively higher boost: assuming everyone has eureka, china is paying 20% less science for the techs - that is plenty powerful enough).

 

[Al Bundy]

A captured settler should add one foreign population (original civ) in one of your cities. No free settler or builder.

I like that. Nice idea. Hope to see it in the game someday.

 

[Montov]

A captured settler should add one foreign population (original civ) in one of your cities. No free settler or builder.

That is just as strong as getting the settler itself, or even stronger when you don't want/need another city.

I would say attacking unprotected civilians should result in a negative diplomatic modifier because it is a war crime. That would create at least some counterbalance.

 

[God of Kings]

I would say attacking unprotected civilians should result in a negative diplomatic modifier because it is a war crime. That would create at least some counterbalance.

Do you consider attacking religious units with military units acceptable?

 

[Al Bundy]

Does anybody know if gaining experience is capped when fighting barbarians, like in Civ5? I watched a few gameplays, but I am not sure.

 

[Promethian]

Does anybody know if gaining experience is capped when fighting barbarians, like in Civ5? I watched a few gameplays, but I am not sure.

The first level comes normally. After that you get one xp.