Some religious based units/buildings

[Craig_Sutter]

I've added some religious based buildings to the mod as follows, as well as some others... what do you think?

Berserker Hall... requires Mythology and a Sacred Site and religion=Pagan. Gives +1 influence, +2 gold, -25% war weariness. Allows production of Berserker in city.

Berserker... requires Mythology and Iron Working , Iron and Berserker Hall, and religion=Pagan. National Unit (8 allowed), melee unit, 5 Str, +100% attack (not defense) vrs melee units except spear/pike, no defensive benefit from terrain, no Military maintenance cost. Note it is a Swordsman and Axeman upgrade so you will not be able to build these units in a city with Berserker Hall until the 8 unit limit is reached.

Ghazi Fraternity... requires Pilgrimage and an Islamic Monastery and religion=Islam. Gives +1 influence, +2 gold, -25% war weariness. Allows production of Ghazi Warrior in city.

Ghazi Warrior... requires Pilgrimage and Stirrup, Horse and Ghazi Fraternity, and religion=Islam. National Unit (8 allowed), mounted unit, 10 Str, -50% combat vrs mounted units, +30% defense brs knights/heavy cavalry (not attack), no defensive benefit from terrain, +25% withdraw, -20% city attack, no Military maintenance cost. Note it is a horse archer upgrade so you will not be able to build these units in a city with Ghazi Fraternity until the 8 unit limit is reached.

Crusader Chapterhouse... requires monastic Orders and a Catholic Monastery and religion=Catholicism. Gives +1 influence, +2 gold, -25% war weariness. Allows production of Crusader Foot Knights in city.

Crusader Foot Knight... requires Monastic Orders and Jurisprudence, Horse, Iron and Crusader Chapterhouse, and religion=Catholicism. National Unit (8 allowed), melee unit, 9 Str, -25% city defense, +75% city attack, no Military maintenance cost. Note it is a Foot Knight upgrade so you will not be able to build these units in a city with Crusader Chapterhouse until the 8 unit limit is reached.

Pedia entries are added.

I've also changed Noble Houses name to College of Heralds, changed Town Hall so the AI builds it (as per previous post), allowed horses to spawn in Floodplains, fiddled with some of the flavors for some buildings and techs for more balanced tech research/building plans.

You should install the graphics hot fix before adding mine...

It is here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=228910


And my changes are attached. Unzip the files inside the mod folder... about 10 files will be overwritten. I've tested these exhaustively so they should work... let me know if there's a problem.

Couple of notes... I used barracks graphics for all of the buildings. I did not change the plot system file for these as I'm not capable... tried but failed, so the buildings won't show up on map.

Used swordsman graphics for berserker, arab horseman for ghazi, and knight of the order for crusader.

Anyhow, here's the download:

 

[Craig_Sutter]

I did not add any orthodox or jewish units of buildings. I don't know enough about these...

However, that being said, I have done some research. The closest thing to an Orthodox crusade was under Ivan the Terrible against the Turks. I'm not certain what building to use... possibily I'd have Orthodox Cathedral as the unit generator. The unit would be some sort of Heavy or Light Cavalry, I think, late in the tech tree.

Anyone with ideas for Orthodox Religious Fighting Orders of some sort, units and buildings, let me know.

I think Jewish equivalents are not in order, here, as this is after the time of the Zealots and Maccabees... not certain what would work otherwise.

ps... maybe the Orthodox units may not need a building requirement, but rather a civic one such as Holy War... not certain if that's doable or not.

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

Orthodox and Judaism are near impossible to find historically accurate "crusader" units. You will have to be creative.

 

[Ajidica]

isnt the ghazi warrior a tad weak? and by -50% vs mounted and +30% vs knights and heavy cavs, does that mean they only get -20%? you may also might want to weaken the christian unit a bit, its a tad overpowered. for orthodoxy, possibly somthing like the varangian gaurd? I really have no clue.

 

[Craig_Sutter]

It's a replacement for Horse Archer... which is 5 Str, +100% vrs melee. As Ghazi has 10 Str, -50% vrs mounted, it is about as effective vrs mounted as Horse Archer vrs mounted units. However, I improved its defense moderately vrs slower moving mounted units by adding the +30% defense against Knights and Heavy Cavalry.

It isn't meant to be much better than Horse Archers... it does, however, do slightly better against the heavy mounted units, and will benefit more from promotions with its higher base strength. It is basically the same as Horse Archer regarding melee units, and equivalent in Str to Light Cavalry in that respect. As its entry tech is pilgrimage (along with maceman), I wanted something in between Horse Archer and Light Cavalry in Str.

The main thing is no military support costs.

As for the Christian unit, its the same strength as a regular foot knight, except for its city attack... but its a direct copy of the Knight of the Order which is the UU for the Crusader Kingdoms in the mod... check that out in the Civilpedia.

That being said, I'm not a unit balancer, so when Head Serf gets back, I hope he looks at the units and how they fit into the overall mod. The number allowed to be built reflects that they should have some effect on play, but not an overwhelming one.

Tweaking the number of such units allowed is something else that must be considered. In my tests, these specialty units did not overwhelm the numbers of regular units they supplant... for instance, berserkers seemed to be about 1/6 of the number of total swordsmen and axemen built, and the others were similar in my tests. I pretty certain I've done well with the techs needed and such. Unit costs may need to be juggled with strengths and abilities, as well. The berserker and Crusaders have the same costs as the units they upgrade from, well the Ghazi does cost more, 100 as compared to 80.

 

[Ajidica]

for orthodox nations, could they have a cavalry between knights and heavys? IIRC, this was when many nations converted to orthodxy and shows the byzantine "rennisance" and their help in the crusade. comes with a tech in the same lvl as jurisprudence perhaps?building could be like, regional rulers, perhaps? i really have no clue for names.

 

[Craig_Sutter]

I see I've had three downloads... have the changes worked out ok, or did I forget to upload a file or two?

Do you like the additions.

Sorry to bump this, but the EMA forum's been a tad quiet.

I've a few days holiday coming up and hope to do some pedia entries.

 

[Whitefire]

The art for the Spearman unit is broken.

 

[Craig_Sutter]

I'll post that to the bugs thread and take a look when I get home. My changes wouldn't have affected that, I think. It may also have been fixed by the graphic hot fix done in another thread... I'll take a look, anyhow.

 

[Head Serf]

Looks like a good add-on, but I won't include in the next version because I would like to get stuff for the orthodox religion and have time to test all of this new stuff out and balance it. I'd like to release the new version very soon, in a few days if possible, mostly to incorporate your town square fix and the unit art fixes, along with some normal bug fixes and the fixes to the maps having max turns set at 400. It looks very good though, and some version of it will definitely make it in.

 

[Craig_Sutter]

Sounds good...

Town square is necessary as the AI wasn't building it otherwise.

Could you also keep the College of Heralds change... it's purely cosmetic, but I think the name is more realistic (there were actual College of Heralds or Arms buildings). The pedia entry is accurate, too.

As for the rest, great if it could be included at some future point... I've been play testing it extensively and it works as it, but I'm certain it could have been implemented in a better way by someone more conversant with the XML and more knowlegable how units interact. There was probably a better way than implementing more unit classes and/or making these units upgrades rather than replacement units, for instance.

Having the buildings fight war weariness, I believe, is appropriate, and no other buildings do so... however, I don't like the fact that even if the religion changes, they provide the war weariness benefit. Perhaps I'm misreading the xml but it seems the only building benefits of religious buildings that change due to the state religion changing is the happiness and monetary benefits from shrine... it'd be better if they failed to contribute anything if the state religion changed.

 

[Drtad]

Sorry I haven't been around, I have been doing some work for Total War mods... About an Orthodox unit, the Orthodox civs (Byz, Armenia, Bulgaria, Serbia, etc.) are so different, there really isn't an all encompassing religious unit. It would be most accurate to have only a Catholic and Muslim unique religious unit. Armenia was the only Orthodox faction that used crusader-type infantry and cavalry (knights, for example) but I wouldn't know how they could get access to Catholic-type crusader units without chaging theirreligion to Catholicism.

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

Sorry I haven't been around, I have been doing some work for Total War mods... About an Orthodox unit, the Orthodox civs (Byz, Armenia, Bulgaria, Serbia, etc.) are so different, there really isn't an all encompassing religious unit. It would be most accurate to have only a Catholic and Muslim unique religious unit. Armenia was the only Orthodox faction that used crusader-type infantry and cavalry (knights, for example) but I wouldn't know how they could get access to Catholic-type crusader units without chaging theirreligion to Catholicism.

I agree, it will add a little variety to the game. Instead you could give them a bonus in some other area. What about a tech that gives them inate diplomacy options?

 

[Craig_Sutter]

I'd read "somewhere" that the closest thing to an orthodox crusade was by the Russian against the Turks... I think that was under Ivan the Terrible.

I believe he may be too late for this mod. In anycase, if I were to do an Othodox Crusader, it would be either Light or Heavy Cavalry replacement and rather than be building dependent, I'd have it only buildable with the Holy War Civic (if that were possible).

 

[Ajidica]

This is just an idea, but since catholicism and orthodoxy are catholic, why dont you just give them each crusaders. They can represent the Comnenoi (Spelling) Restoration under the Byzantines, and when given a city assault promo, they are still effective for the war of Ivan the Terrible against the Turks and i belive Arminia was mostly conquered by the turks historicly at the point you get the crusaders. Feedback?

 

[Drtad]

i belive Arminia was mostly conquered by the turks historicly at the point you get the crusaders. Feedback?

Well, Armenia the region was conquered, but the monarchy was transferred to a different location that lasted until 1375...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_cilicia

 

[Ajidica]

I knew you could find something that would show my ignorance of armenia. But what do you think of the idea?

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

Drtad correct me if I'm wrong or really fill me in, did the cilician armenians avoid mongol domination when they "vassalized the seljuks of rum?

 

[Drtad]

I knew you could find something that would show my ignorance of armenia. But what do you think of the idea?

I dunno, I think that ocrap's idea is better (economic boni, etc.).

Drtad correct me if I'm wrong or really fill me in, did the cilician armenians avoid mongol domination when they "vassalized the seljuks of rum?

Yes they did. The Armenian king, Hetum I, traveled all the way to Karakorum from his capital Sis, and became the fist Christian king to do that of his own accord. He attempted to convert Mongke Khan to Christianity, which didn't work, but he secured an alliance, and together the Armenians and Mongols coordinated assaults against the Seljuks and the Mamelukes. When the Mongols retreated due to internal revolts, they left Armenia in control of nearly the whole Levant. However, the Armenian army had taken heavy losses in the campaign, and they did not have the strength to hold the areas. The Mongols then converted to Islam and invaded Cilicia. The Armenians were defeated fora time and retreated to the mountain strongholds. However, around 1308 the new Armenian king Oshin was able to drive the Mongols out. However the Mamelukes continued to puch against them and after the sack of the port of Ayas during Levon V's reign it was really only a matter of time until the kingdom fell. As a direct answer to your question, they avoided Mongol domination first with diplomacy, and subsequently militarily.