Something fishy about AI techs
- Thread starter karadoc
- Start date
shackleton
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2005
- Messages
- 109
Not 100% certain but I believe that some techs have alternative pre-requisites.
I say this because I usually get music before the AI, with drama and mathematics, and then after I have music I notice that literature is marked as a pre-requisite for music, yet I don't have literature yet.
I believe that there's also alternative routes to the tech that gives you temples.
I say this because I usually get music before the AI, with drama and mathematics, and then after I have music I notice that literature is marked as a pre-requisite for music, yet I don't have literature yet.
I believe that there's also alternative routes to the tech that gives you temples.
This is a standard map, with 7 civs? It's possible the other civ you haven't had contact with has music, and he got it from them. (Can you trade for techs you don't have the prereqs for? I'm not sure...)karadoc said:
edit: Didn't see Tokugawa at the bottom. Nevermind. shackleton's right, Music requires Math and Drama or Math and Literature.
ACK! It just got worse. Here's a screenshot taken on the next turn.
This is completely stupid! How the hell am I meant to be the first to discover anything if the rules are bent for the AI in this way?
I'm playing version 1.08, on Monarch.
After seeing this second occurence, I'm thinking that this should maybe be moved to the bug reports. (?)
This is completely stupid! How the hell am I meant to be the first to discover anything if the rules are bent for the AI in this way?
I'm playing version 1.08, on Monarch.
After seeing this second occurence, I'm thinking that this should maybe be moved to the bug reports. (?)
Attachments
Dairuka
Prince
You can get Music without getting Drama.
As a side note. Damn you've fallen behind. Very badly. I think you should lower the difficulty setting so that you can at least compete.
As a side note. Damn you've fallen behind. Very badly. I think you should lower the difficulty setting so that you can at least compete.
Actually, I was quite confident about my position until these two things happened. I've got the Pyrimids, Great Library, and the Parthenon. With a bit of trading I can catch up on techs. But I was kind of counting on getting at least _one_ of the bonuses from getting those two techs first (music and philosophy).
shackleton
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2005
- Messages
- 109
The temples one, sorry it's early and my brain is fuzzy, but it's something like you can go to it via polytheism or the tech that gives you buddhism
Dairuka
Prince
I don't think this is a bug report. I don't believe you understand the alternative routes.
For example. An alternative route to get Philosophy is, Meditation -> Polytheism -> Code of Laws.
Another problem is that your research seems to suck. 20 turns for Philosophy is bad. By the time I'm ready to research it, it takes me 8-12 turns. In a simple one word explanation. Horrible.
You don't have enough money.
You probably did not build any Libraries or Cottages.
In this case, I would restart the game at a lower difficulty level until you understand the basics.
For example. An alternative route to get Philosophy is, Meditation -> Polytheism -> Code of Laws.
Another problem is that your research seems to suck. 20 turns for Philosophy is bad. By the time I'm ready to research it, it takes me 8-12 turns. In a simple one word explanation. Horrible.
You don't have enough money.
You probably did not build any Libraries or Cottages.
In this case, I would restart the game at a lower difficulty level until you understand the basics.
Well, you were right about the alternate requirements. It is clearly marked on the tech tree poster that both these things are possible. But it is not marked at all on the in-game tech tree, which is completely stupid! I thought I need _both_ drama and lit to get music; but I only needed one of them. I'm sure I've made countless poor research choices because of this. *sigh*
Dairuka
Prince
Don't worry about it Karadoc. Soon it will come naturally without second thought.
One good way to find out alternative research choices is to hold shift, and click your favorite research path. It'll show up in numbers on the research tech tree.
Such as:
1. Animal Husbandry.
2. Writing.
3. Mysticism.
4. Meditation
5. Priesthood
6. Code of Laws
7. Polytheism
8. Philosophy
That right there is a quick unconventional tech line that will get you your Philosophy with the minimum requirements. {ie. The fastest.}
Although I'd suggest picking up Agriculture/Hunting/Fishing/Masonry depending on your starting location, as well as building The Oracle to get Metal Casting as your free tech.
Always pick up Pottery along the way as well.
I usually don't have a set line of what I research these days. Mostly because I've learned to prioritize based on where I start. It's a trick you'll pick up with experience. Trust me. You'll get this. =)
One good way to find out alternative research choices is to hold shift, and click your favorite research path. It'll show up in numbers on the research tech tree.
Such as:
1. Animal Husbandry.
2. Writing.
3. Mysticism.
4. Meditation
5. Priesthood
6. Code of Laws
7. Polytheism
8. Philosophy
That right there is a quick unconventional tech line that will get you your Philosophy with the minimum requirements. {ie. The fastest.}
Although I'd suggest picking up Agriculture/Hunting/Fishing/Masonry depending on your starting location, as well as building The Oracle to get Metal Casting as your free tech.
Always pick up Pottery along the way as well.
I usually don't have a set line of what I research these days. Mostly because I've learned to prioritize based on where I start. It's a trick you'll pick up with experience. Trust me. You'll get this. =)
Control Group
Chieftain
I'm at work, so I can't confirm this, but I'm pretty sure it is marked on the in-game tech tree (albeit in a way I find counterintuitive).
The white arrows represent either/or prereqs. Satisfying any of the arrows leading to your target tech will enable you to research it. Absolute prereqs are represented by icons in the upper right-hand corner of the target tech: if you see an icon there, it's a tech required to research the one you're looking at.
Of course, this representation (IMHO) is misleading, nonstandard, and confusing - but once you know that it's there, you can read it.
Is it possible that there is an alternate explanation to Karadoc's original anomoly?
Perhaps the Foreign Advisor - Technology panel is relating slightly different information than is being assumed, here.
The assumption seems to be that this panel is telling us what techs everyone has. Being a panel for the use of trading techs, it seems likely that it is actually telling us what techs each civ has to trade. More specifically, since this is Karadoc's Foreign Advisor's panel, it is probably telling us what techs each civ can trade with Karadoc.
Since Karadoc has Drama, nobody can trade it to him, and it appears in no other civ's list. At least one other civ does not have it, though, so Karadoc can trade it, and it does appear in his list.
Just a thought. I'm not with my game, so I can't check it.
Perhaps the Foreign Advisor - Technology panel is relating slightly different information than is being assumed, here.
The assumption seems to be that this panel is telling us what techs everyone has. Being a panel for the use of trading techs, it seems likely that it is actually telling us what techs each civ has to trade. More specifically, since this is Karadoc's Foreign Advisor's panel, it is probably telling us what techs each civ can trade with Karadoc.
Since Karadoc has Drama, nobody can trade it to him, and it appears in no other civ's list. At least one other civ does not have it, though, so Karadoc can trade it, and it does appear in his list.
Just a thought. I'm not with my game, so I can't check it.
JohnMK
Warlord
Dairuka, a little tact might betray your true helpful intentions.
I'm not convinced that the AI doesn't construct buildings or units it's not actually capable of ... I understand that there are different paths and many possibilities for the AI to be sharing technologies, so I'm very open on this, but last night I was leading the tech race and we're all way off obtaining Infantry (read: not just me, but *all* of the AI in the game).
We're all pottering around with Riflemen (max), when I launch a war against the weakest AI ... small land, modest tech and so on (well, more accurately, he attacked me first and I swung things into his direction).
And then I saw it: Up popped an Infantry unit in one of his cities. No one else had these ... no one ... no one had the technology yet, but this guy conjured one up from somewhere (Noble difficulty).
I'm assuming I've missed something, but - like I said - I'm not convinced that the rules get bent in the AI's favor, sometimes too much.
We're all pottering around with Riflemen (max), when I launch a war against the weakest AI ... small land, modest tech and so on (well, more accurately, he attacked me first and I swung things into his direction).
And then I saw it: Up popped an Infantry unit in one of his cities. No one else had these ... no one ... no one had the technology yet, but this guy conjured one up from somewhere (Noble difficulty).
I'm assuming I've missed something, but - like I said - I'm not convinced that the rules get bent in the AI's favor, sometimes too much.
Private_pAuLa
Chieftain
i dunno what it looks like in the US (better: none german) version of civ4, but the german retail has a big foldpaper (atm i can't remember the correct term in english... perhaps someone else does: "poster") with all the techs and with nice colored arrows how to achiev them...
i found it realy helpfull!
greetings from good old europe!
private_paula
i found it realy helpfull!
greetings from good old europe!
private_paula
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