SP is Harder Then MP

SickCycle

Prince
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The title speaks for itself, I've come to the conclusion that Singleplayer is actually more challenging then Multiplayer.

I've a harder time winning on Monarch then I do winning in a online game by far, what about you guys?
 
The title speaks for itself, I've come to the conclusion that Singleplayer is actually more challenging then Multiplayer.

I've a harder time winning on Monarch then I do winning in a online game by far, what about you guys?

The only multiplayer games I play or played tend to stuff like Quake, StarCraft, Half-Life 2 and its various mods, etc. I would expect that MP is usually harder because it's less predictable. (Assuming that you play against competent competition.) Monarch shouldn't be too hard for most of the hardcore people on here who read everything in War Academy and all the strategy threads...
 
The only multiplayer games I play or played tend to stuff like Quake, StarCraft, Half-Life 2 and its various mods, etc. I would expect that MP is usually harder because it's less predictable. (Assuming that you play against competent competition.) Monarch shouldn't be too hard for most of the hardcore people on here who read everything in War Academy and all the strategy threads...

Exactly, and just out of curiosity, how many regular posters here would play MP?
I'm only guessing, but I think the better players here would prefer to extend themselves by beating the really high SP levels than whipping some poor shmuck on MP. But, I never play MP so I have no idea, just thinking out loud so to speak.
 
Well I lose on Monarch still but I generally am leading the pack in tech/power/score on MP, something I can't do on Monarch very often, at least until I take everyone over :D

You only get thirty seconds or so to do your turn so think about that too, you don't get to just sit there calculating things, you have to just act so most people are not playing that well.

Most people online don't even know what CivFanatics Forum is :) some players online are very very good, but the large majority just are .. Meh.. a guy in my last game was playing at chieftain, he started talking about Settlers/Workers popping from huts and I was like..... they do that.... lol

I'll own you on Starcraft btw ;)
 
Well I think generally speaking a player who can play at Monarch level is already above the MP mean. I've had quite a few games against mostly random people and only occasionally (perhaps 1 in 20 people) do I find someone who gives me a real challenge. That's assuming you avoid dedicated noob games of course. And I usually play Monarch in SP, though I may be going Emperor soon.

I guess I should get into ladder games....:mischief:
 
Yeah, I might try some ladder games. I'm sure that's where all the good players are hiding.

I haven't played starcraft in ages, since I got Civ4 actually, even before that I kinda gave it up for Counter-Strike. I use to be really good though, my friend I got hooked on it still plays it everyday.

But it's been awhile, last time I played him he beat me in a regular match but I got hooked on Map Settings games and stopped playing regular matches years ago, so I really fell off my game on regular matches, they are just more fun to me, the regular games got old after a couple years :(

I loved playing back in the day before people really knew how to dominate in regular games, last time I played everyone was spamming dragoons, when I first started doin that type of strategy we were still using hatcheries before they nerferd there spawn time, was sooooo long ago. It was so much fun when people tried to play normally and we had 10+ hatcheries in our main base lol they didn't know what the heck was going on, they usually didn't get past the initial hordes of lings we'd throw at them in the first few minutes.

Good times, game is a classic, it's so old and still so good.
 
I think I want to be playing on emperor before I try out my first ladder game tho.
 
I wouldn't go so far as to say that multiplayer is easier, but it's true that if you're able to win routinely on emperor you're likely above and beyond the average public games hosted online. What you first need to remember is single player and multiplayer often involve different tactics. In multiplayer you have to keep a good balance of military strength and technology, if you fall behind on either you're likely going to be crushed. While I don't doubt that players tackling emperor and higher as their preference would make very competent multiplayer contenders, they'd likely have to spend several games adjusting to the difference before they were truely "good". I'd also think it would be easier to adjust from single player to mutliplayer, since the other players capturing your cities should give you an idea of what you're doing wrong. ;)

As far as my personal experiences, when I started playing CIV me and a friend used to direct ip and play big games with a lot of ai. We would try to have as little interaction as possible, we weren't allies but we generally wouldn't fight until the game was over. We started on noble, and then prince and eventually found ourselves quite comfortable on monarch for awhile. Thats when I started playing online, and although I was reluctant and doubted a game like civ would be practical with 5+ random people playing, turn timers and quick speed really save the day.

Fast forwarding from then to now, public gamespy games don't really give me much of a challenge. I can join a public ffa on gamespy and chances are I'm going to win, and the times I do lose, it's often a couple players attacking at once or getting dragged down in a long stagnant war that doesn't really end. Most players in public games don't tech very well, often don't have a good understanding of slavery and their economy just doesn't make the long-haul in general . Although they are more level-headed military commanders then the AI(ussually >_>) and harder to take over when you're close in power(since war in civ isn't really rocket science).

As far as single player I'm stuck in the zone where monarch is way too easy, and I basically can't lose, while emperor is ussually quite difficult. That said, I generally play the same style for single player as I do online, quick speed and I never slack on military, don't really focus on wonders and just try to win straight up making the best of my land. The wins I do have on emperor are when I decided to really focus on a specific strategy for beating the ai, rather than just trying to keep my civ as 'strong as possible'. Also from what I've seen from others wins on immortal and deity are all about the liberalism race, out-teching the ai, and/or unrealistic axe landgrabs that simply wouldnt work on a somewhat-competent human. You only get certain specific opportunities to pass/catch the AI on these difficulties, and if you don't then you lose.

As far as the ladder, I wouldn't worry about being able to tackle emperor first, as I said before both require different strategies. If you're finding the average public games too easy you should find the ladder games competitive yet enjoyable. When I was playing ladder in warlords I sure as hell couldn't scrounge a win on emperor yet i was still holding my own and had a win ratio over 50%. I played with many of the top ranked players, and even have wins against some of them. Unfortunately for me cton doesn't seem like a popular stlye of play on the ladder anymore, and i'm not a big fan of teamers. =(

To sum it all up, while good playing habit, and the general thinking and management of your civ are the same for both multiplayer and singleplayer, the strategy isn't. And although this post is long, there is still a lot more I could type about how different I feel SP/MP are from eachother. I wouldn't so much worry about which you find more difficult, as I would which you enjoy more. :crazyeye:

However, this is all just based on my personal experience and others may vary.

Edit: Oh yeah, i almost completely didn't mention turn-timers. Some people may not be able/comfortable playing with the blazing turn timer. You really have to play and think fast. The ability to think on your feet, and quick management skills are required or your turns may feel far from optomised. There are often times when I'm struggling to get everything done within the time limit(and some where I don't) and I've played my fair share of online CIV.
 
As a little note: I have tried to create an account on the multiplayer function, but it simply won't work. The screen "jumps" (like those camera loops you see on films), but nothing else happens, and I cant login with the username I just tried to create. Please give some advice... Do I need a GamespyArcade installed or updated (this is the worst MP client program in my opinion: 1: Itt doesnt work that often 2: It viruses your PC and loads you with spyware.)
I'd be really sad if I needed to use GSA.

Btw I do have the latest patch, and I play Vanilla.
 
As a little note: I have tried to create an account on the multiplayer function, but it simply won't work. The screen "jumps" (like those camera loops you see on films), but nothing else happens, and I cant login with the username I just tried to create. Please give some advice... Do I need a GamespyArcade installed or updated (this is the worst MP client program in my opinion: 1: Itt doesnt work that often 2: It viruses your PC and loads you with spyware.)
I'd be really sad if I needed to use GSA.

Btw I do have the latest patch, and I play Vanilla.

Gamespay is dumb.. keep making random stupid names and eventually it'll let you in.

Gamespy doesn't give errors so if you make a name that is to long or to short or already taken it just pauses then stays where your at.

That goes for your email and crap too, if it doesn't like what you type it just stays put, when I first tried making one it didnt let me in for a month till I figure that out, I just started putting in random keys untill it accepted :p
 
Personnaly i cant play anything but multiplayer and i'd say theres a ratio of 1/5 good players to bad players. Most of the bad players just need basic maths in their skulls and would be competitive
 
I've played some multiplayer, but rarely come across players of = skill level. that's not to say i am an uber player but rather that most online players are novices.

Multiplayer I find is in principle more fun because you have to be more on your toes and use more interesting tactics.

For example, one thing I really enjoyed in one of my games was bombarding with catapults from one side of a river, which put me at the better defensive advantage and then moving one tile across the river to assault the city itself. In SP i would just move across the river in the first instance because the AI wouldn't attack me en masse. But the human player would throw catapults and then mop up units and wipe out my stack. But holding the defensive terrain meant that he would take serious losses attacking me making him vulnerable to a counter attack if things went poorly for him. So he had to hunker down meaning I could damage him a lot with catas and then attack his weakened stack from across the river.

But in general online games take waaay too long and I don't play them unless I'm playing with friends and we meet up 1/week or something to continue a game.

I played a lot of online rts games (Age of Mythology, Age of Empires III) but those games only take on average 20 min.
 
Ladder players will say that MP is more challenging than SP. SG players or HoF players will say the opposite. To me, neither is true. MP and SP are two different playing styles, you really cannot compare.

MP is about choking early, rushes, and how to maximize score (120 turn limit games). SP is more about maximizing your start, more complex strategies come up in SP like slingshots and so on.
 
The dominant ladder attitude is very different from the SPs one tho. Probably a third of the posts on civ4players are in need of moderation by the civfanatic standard.
 
Played one ,exactly one MP game ever. Soon realised why I prefer my dogs to people ...and the AI as well.
I like to play to relax winning is not the key component.As for it being harder than MP..I will say it rates lower on my "annoying @sshat-o-meter"
 
You can't really compare the two difficulty wise. A good human player always has better tactics than the AI, and as long as you play with players around or above your own skill level it's going to be more challenging. Sure rampaging against some MP noobs is easier than the AI, but not players with any skill. There's just things AI's don't do like fast road attacks (where you gather a bunch of workers near your frontline and insta-road your army into his turf). The AI can't counter your stack properly either. If a human notices you stockpiling swords and cats, they'll stockpile axes and horse archers. You can even have a decent numerical advantage and a human can still stop your invasion with the right units and promo's.
 
In multiplayer it's sheer tactical skill and/or luck that will win the day. Of course, I did end up getting a start with 3 golds a corn and a horse AND a second city site that touched the capital's fat cross AND had lots of plain hills, copper, iron AND 2 seafoods as Darius. Needless to say, that was among the quickest MP games i've played. First guy took forever to kill though, started next to the maya and he tried to holkan choke me :/

But in SP micromanaging skills are just as if not more important than military sense. In MP you can bet that the only wins you'll see will be conquest or domination unless war is off for some reason.
 
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