SP1 - Always War, with extra restrictions

no, I am pretty sure that you can get a settler from a goody hut when:

- you don't have a settler active or being built
- the number of cities you have is less than (or equal to??) total # cities for all civs / #civs

Also, a good hut can't contain barbarians if you have no military; which is why I got the starting worker to pop the goody hut near our first city.
 
Sirp is right on this one per Firaxis at Apoly.

I researched warrior code because it was the cheapest and it is a required tech. Until we fill in the territory exposed now, we don't need to explore too much more. Later contact is better in this case. That means we aren't likely to get too many more goodie huts. I personnally would build the chariots, just for the cheap upgrade, but not use them unless we had to as a last resort. The longer we can go without triggering our GA the better we will be. Therefore, make hay on chariots, but upgrade all but one. Then when we are in a race for that critical wonder, win with it and trigger the GA, snag the wonder, and watch the women swoon.....OK, maybe not that last part. Archers can also operate in the mountains. This may be critical as well. If all we can do during our GA is build more chariots, then it will have been wasted. We can't afford to do that no matter how nice we think the UU is for us.
Also, since we will be doing all our own research, going for the shortest one is a viable strategy. We can still let the AIs pay for researching it first while our costs for it drop. We should only break this rule for critical techs.
 
hmm...I had rather different thinking on this Meldor; I guess we will have to decide something at some point :)

Honestly, I don't pay much attention to golden ages; when they happen, they happen, I don't try to time them. Also, are we going for any ancient wonders? In particular, if we get The Pyramids, that will trigger a golden age for us anyway.

My view would be that war chariots are too valuable unique units to worry about specially timing our golden age, especially in an always war game.

Being able to move on mountains is nice, but not as good as being able to move 2 spaces; combine that with the archer upgrade being crap, and I still see war chariots as the way to go.

Anyone else have any opinions on this? :)
 
That is why SGs are so fun, we all have different ways of playing the game and we all learn from each other. Most likely, someone besides us will make that decision one way or the other before we have a chance.

[EDIT] That GA could go to boost a wonder like the Pyramids or Great Library. We probably don't have a shot at the Pyramids unless we trigger the GA.
 
The only realistic way to get the Pyramids or Great Library (MUCH MORE IMPORTANT) is by a leader. If you attempt to build a wonder this early with extra restrictions, Monarch, and Pangea - you are in deep trouble. I would much rather have 10+ military units then a hand build Pyramids.


@Meldor - Could you post a link to the settler question? This disagrees with what I recall. I'd like to see it in writing.
 
Lee,

I could not find the original post directly from Firaxis. I believe it was in a mini question/answer interview. I did, however find this thread that brought together some of the insights from them. Maybe the originator can fill in the missing thread.

Firaxis Thread
 
2510 BC-

Moved lux to 20% to prevent riot in Thebes. Decided to research iron working and put sci to 70%. It'll be done in 15 turns and we have a +1 gpt surplus. Spearman finished in Memphis, and another barb warrior appeared on the horizon. Next build is archer to go take out the barb camp. The worker on the horse near thebes is mining, shouldn't he be roading? Anyway, he has 1 turn to go so I decided to let him finish the mine and then will go to road.

2470 BC-

Warrior at top is exploring, it looks like we're at the top of the island. Heliopolis founded, and the worker near thebes is starting road so we can build chariots. Settler finished in Thebes, hes going up to claim the silks unescorted. The warrior up there will defend that town when it's built. Moved the money rate to 1.8.1, with +1 gpt. Worker by Memphis moved to connect Memphis and Thebes.

2430 BC-

It's confirmed- we are at the top of the island.

2390 BC-

Horses connected, once Memphis and Thebes are connected Memphis will switch to war chariot. Warrior exploring at top found another silks, it's a shame we can't trade.

2350 BC-

Memphis connected, switched to war chariot. Decided to put settler on a closer set of silk and game.

2310 BC-

Roman warrior sighted east of Heliopolis! War! He was cautious, but now he won't talk to us! :muaha:

2270 BC-

Thebes loses a citizen due to surrounding flood plain. :( Elephantine founded northwest of Thebes, to claim the closest pair of silks and game, and another barb warrior appears on the horizon. Lux rate moved back to 2.8.0, with +2 gpt.

2230 BC-

Disease hits Thebes again, and now at a size of 2. The first war chariot we have built is going to wipe out the barbs that are posing a bigger threat than the Romans are.

2190 BC-

Barbarian warrior nears Elephantine, chariot goes after the camps because it cannot reach the town in time, and the workers are building roads.

2150 BC-

The warrior in Elephantine is victorious! :ak47:

2110 BC-

War chariot finds the offending barbarian camp, and kills a warrior. Again, the two workers are working to connect the cities.

2070 BC-

Spearman in Heliopolis, the warrior there is off to find the evil roman cities. The war chariot kills another barbarian warrior, there is only one left. Iron working in 1 turn, the lux rate moved to 9.1.0 to bag a +14 gp.

2030 BC-

Next tech is alphabet, so we can try to Great Library before everyone else. If not, writing will give us embassies so that we can find people's capitals. The war chariot wiped out the barb camp and took 25 gold with no damage. As for iron, there is none connected now, but one is on the coast northwest of Elephantine, and a settler was already on the way. There is another iron south of the barb camp. (See below map)

1990 BC-

Our warrior experiences the first battle with the romans, and wins! Thebes builds another settler, I think Thebes should be a settler farm for a couple more turns. The aforementioned settler is going down to claim the horses, instead of iron, as horses will serve us longer, even though iron can make or break a civ. Memphis gets hit by disease, and is at size 1. :(

1950 BC-

Alexandria founded, and is going for the colossus. It could be useful because the extra gold will help in supporting our military. It's a hundred turns away. The warrior who is scouting has found what looks like a mountain range east of out mighty civ.

1910 BC-

We built another war chariot, and it's on its way below the mountain range.

1870 BC-

Iron is in the mountain range, 2 tiles from the coast. The first war chariot finds another barb camp below the horses near Memphis.

1830 BC-

Heliopolis is connected. That barb camp is no more! 25 gold!

1790 BC-

By the warriors path through the mountain range, it looks like there might be a pass at the top. More horses are discovered south of Heliopolis, right at the edge of the range.

1750 BC-

Pi-Ramsses is founded west of Memphis so that when it expands it will have the horses. A barbarian warrior apporaches Alexandria. It looks like another camp appeared! Someone should send the war chariot near Pi-Ramesses to take it out. The warrior on the mountain range finds a path through for war chariots to take.


Things to do:

Make sure the warrior finds Rome, and make sure the war chariot nearest the camp gets to it before anything bad happens.
 
I can't post a map as I have no picture editing tools on this computer. I will try to get one up later.
 
ok, looks like we're doing pretty well. I don't think that declaring war fairly early is a bad thing, as it means that it disrupts their economic progress early.

the order:

1. Sirp <--- on deck
2. meldor
3. Maple <--- just batted
4. Gunning1 <---- UP NOW

I have attached an image of our world as it now stands.

Now as for my attitude regarding wonders, it would be different to either lkendter or meldor. My theory is that we can get our cheap war chariots, and thus we can churn out lots of them, cheaper in another city, while one of our cities will have time to build a wonder. Of course, a golden age could help too, as could great leaders. But, I am perfectly happy not to go for any wonders at all. They're not *that* valuable anyhow, although the Great Library would be nice, especially since we could make money for all the chariot->knight upgrades while everyone else gets the technology for us.

It's great news that we're at the top of the island. There's alot of jungle around, but at least we're industrious. I think we need to start churning out a few catapults soon. If the Romans show up with legions, they'll be damn necessary!
 

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Well, since my name was invoked - I will over some comments.

LK22 was hell for a long time - one of the mistakes was early contact with to many civs - and we only had 4 on our continent!
My ideas:
1 - Stop exploring, you want to delay contact as long as possible. It would be much better to find a civ sending settlers and get free labor - a key part of always war. Better, they may start fighting each other!

2 - Screw wonders, the only ones with building by hand - SunTzu, Leo's - if you make it to rails and factories - you can build plenty then.

3 - Build barracks - War chariots have a better chance to retreat if vet. It may take a bit, but you will be really stretched for troops. A few wins because of vet status is big.

4 - I saw a comment about war chariots and mountains off limits. WHO CARES? You should never attack into mountains with 100% defense bonus anyhow.
 
I think Lee is right about barracks - we should choose a few cities that are going to be serious military cities and build barracks in them. Not being militaristic kinda bites ;(

But, chariots also can't move jungle if it isn't roaded right? And Lee, if you look at the picture I just posted, there is a big mountain range to our south-east, the war chariots couldn't cross it, for example. Also, they might want to move *onto* a mountain, simply to wait for an enemy to go past, or for protection - what if there were enemy horsemen in the area?

I don't think it's a *major* disadvantage that war chariots can't go onto mountains without roads, but it is a disadvantage.
 
Trust me, by the time you can afford to cross that mountain range - you will be ready to upgrade to horseman.

As for barracks - you will want them in all cities. The ability to heal troops quickly is critical. Slow to heal could equal lost cities. I learned a lot with 2 rounds of always war.
 
I don't want to upgrade them to horsemen, why should we, when war chariots are almost as good? We will upgrade to knights, of course.

we will want barracks in all cities eventually, of course; I was talking about in the short term.
 
I will not be able to play tonight, but should be able to post by 12:00 Central time.
 
We do not have a good defensive position right now. If the Romans are coming from the east, we need to set up defensive positions in the mountians to stop them from getting onto the plains.

When I spoke of wonders, I don't care for Ancient wonders with the exception of the Great Library. I would prefer if we could keep contact down to a minimum anyway, so the GL may not be as valuable as it could be. Sun's and Leo's would be nice. I think Leo's may even be better for us than Sun's if we are on a relatively small island.

Why was the Northern city built on a shielded grassland? That city just lost much needed production. If it had been one to the west, it wouldn't have been able to claim the silk right away, but would have been a lot more productive in its early stages. The better city placemant would have been nicer than the lux coming sooner.

The city to the south did not have to worry about the incense, we arlready had a source and we will never be able to trade it away. Do not worry about embassies as we will never be able to establish any.

We should persue cheapest techs or head for Monarchy. Monarchy will be the best choice for Government until we can secure more native luxes and get marketplaces in to help out. I don't know if we will be able to switch out to Republic or not. Monarchy has always been my chioce for warmongering. Once we are there we can start ruching buildings and troops with money.

The problem with all of the early military is that they have no defense. This means we must absolutely be careful and let the enemy approach us in the open. Don't stand next to the enemy unless you can attack them on the same turn. Otherwise let them come to us. That is one big advantage we have with War Chariots except in hills. The extra movement should be used for our advantage. Waiting an extra turn to attack,when they won't be able to counter can make a big difference. Don't leave units exposed to counter if you don't have to. Also, if possible don't appraoch their cities by their roads. It doesn't give us any movement bonuses and they can hit us faster. If possible, that a cat or two and take out the roads in front of you to stop the easy assualts. It does us no good to come in with 5 War Chariots, if they hit with three archers and leave us down three units. We can not afford to fight wars of attrition.

One thing that is in our favor is that we are in a corner. Until we see galleys we have only two sides to worry about.

Don't worry about going after the Romans right now. Let them build offensive units and send them at us. We can take them out on the plains, were we have the advantage. Meanwhile we can continue our growth and expansion while they are slowed by war production. Once all heck breaks lose, we will be hard pressed to expand and defend. Every city we get in now is absolutely critical.
 
I'm sorry, go ahead and skip me. I'm having some problems with the computer. I will be able to play later though.:(
 
I am going on a two week trip to Canada, (yay) so if my turn comes up I'll have to skip it.
 
Sorry to hear about your computer problems gunning. Let us know when you can play again. Anyway, that makes it my turn, so here goes:

PreTurn - I veto the war chariot in Memphis, changing to a barracks; we really need at least one of our cities to have a barracks. Play with science rate to get it down to 2 turns at +0 gold. I really don't think getting the Colossus in Alexandria is a good idea (or was that just a prebuild?) so I change it to an archer to go after the barbarians.

meldor, as far as I can see, no city was built on shielded grassland.

1725BC (1) A Roman archer and warrior appear out of the fog, advancing towards our war chariot, and Heliopolis. I retreat our war chariot a little. I honestly think we're going to have to forget about trying to time our golden age; it's going to happen really soon now. Elphantine is roaded up and I change it to building a war chariot from a spearman. The chariot will try to go after the barbarians. Science slider is MMed to give us 2 gold. I change Heliopolis to building a war chariot - that's going to last alot better than a spearman against roman archers.

1700BC (2) A barbarian warrior attacking Alexandria almost kills our defending spearman...but he just survives. We discover alphabet. Mysticism is the cheapest tech to research, but I am seriously tempted to go for mathematics; we need catapults badly! Heliopolis completes its war chariot and I set it to build a barracks; but this can be changed to a unit if needs be. Our exploring warrior in the south east spots the border of a Roman settlement. Our war chariot near helio waits around for the Roman archers to come onto the desert, where they can be run over. I start hooking up the silks in the north. Our other war chariot destroys a barb encampment, and spots an *incredibly* fertile region. It's on a river, with two floodplains wheat. Bit far though :/

1675BC (3) Thebes completes a settler, who is sent west to found a city. Thebe's garrison is sent with him, since there are barbs in the area. Set Thebes to build another warrior, and set its food production to max.

1650BC (4) I'm not sure exactly what the Romans are doing, because of the fog, but they seem to be meandering about a little. Our exploring warrior is trying to check out the Roman settlement. In the fertile region to the south west, there is also a source of ivory.

1625BC (5) hmm...I see what's happened with the Romans now, their warrior and archer went back south to fight someone else; I didn't see who, but I assume it was barbarians. Our warrior discovers Antium which is *undefended*. However, their wounded archer is right next to it. Sniffing the potential for an early raid, I also dispatch a war chariot towards the area.

1600BC (6) ok, the Roman archer moves into Antium, and now the question is to attack or not attack. Antium is on grassland, and the warrior has 2 health. The warrior has 4 health, but has to attack across a river to attack this turn. What to do? I think that attacking this turn is better than moving and attacking next turn, not across the river. A war chariot could attack in 3 turns; but that's too long, and we want to delay the golden age as much as possible. I attack, and we win 2-1! We auto-raze Antium and take 4 gold. How'd the Romans like *that*? The border to their next city is to the south east.

1575BC (7) trying to found another city, but barbarian warriors keep showing up. Our settler waits, while our military clears out the area. Silks hooked up; this should be good for happiness.

1550BC (8) Thebes finished a warrior; set to build another settler. war chariot in the south pops a goody hut full of barbarians; I hope he can survive. The Greeks have founded a city to the south west, in the very fertile looking region - Delphi. However, we have not yet made contact. We will withdraw from the area until we want to make contact.

1525BC (9) our war chariot bravely fights off 2 barbarians and promotes to veteran, but sadly, is defeated by the third. Out warrior/war chariot pair spots a spearman escorting a settler out from roman territory. Should we start pushing our luck and try to attack? It's tempting. Our war chariot spots the city of Rome. It's defended by a regular spearman. There's also another city nearby to the north-east. We could see if it's only defended by a warrior, or we could go after the spearman-settler pair. Giza is founded, there is a barbarian camp nearby, and our warrior moves towards it.

1500BC (10) we manage to destroy the barbarian encampment, but now the newly-founded Giza is under threat by a warrior who recently emerged from the camp. Our nearby war chariot can't attack, since he's in jungle. Do we let Giza be plundered, since it's a new city and has very little of value, or do we risk our war chariot defending it? I'm dubious as to what's best here, but I decide to move the chariot back to defend the city.

All our build orders should probably be reviewed. We need to keep steadily expanding. There is an iron source to the north of the Romans that we want to do our best to deny from them. There's also a barbarian encampment on the mountains in that area, so our war chariots can't attack it. Snaring a roman settler would be nice, as two extra workers would help us out a great deal right now. The Romans are our only enemy at this stage, and we really have them on the back foot.

now, since Maple is out for 2 weeks, and gunning it out until further notice, that leaves meldor and I. If anyone wants to join this game, please let us know. (Lee, you seem to be hanging around a bit...can we tempt you? :) )

So, the order now looks like this:

1. Sirp <--- Just batted, but also, still on deck
2. meldor <--- UP NOW

Maple <--- Away with leave
gunning <--- Away with leave
 
@Sirp - Well I go on vacation in 2 days. Enough said?

As for the settler pair - YES kill it.
Support cost are brutal in always war.
You really can't afford support for workes - free labor is a hugh bonus.
 
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