Space Race Victories

[BrantleyL1]

Ok.. I'm basically a peaceful kind of guy and tend toward not causing a lot of wars. I probably ought to just bite the bullet and go for a conquest victory, but have not been too successful in getting off to a good start.

Maps have not been kind on copper, so have to wait on 2nd city to start building axemen. By then, other civs have gotten a little too strong or too many cities to wipe out quickly. [IF then. I've had to wait on IRON on more than one occasion.]

Also, have had continents with the MAJORITY of other civs on MY continent.

Also, have had too much border to defend.

So, I kind of fall into working on a space race victory.

Last win, I had 6 opponents on my continent. Ended up with all of them friendly toward others and even a couple of defensive pacts. (I learned my lesson on THAT a while ago & got my a** KICKED when I attacked someone who had a defensive pact. Their buddy came in and kicked my tail.) Anyway, started on Space Race and won about 1 turn before another opponent would have.

Prior game, I lost by ONE turn.

So, my question is this:

Could someone give me a couple of pointers toward an early space race victory? (Say before 1950??)

Also, any thoughts about building up an aggressive force, and going for killing everyone on my continent would be appreciated....

Thanks!!

 

[solvero]

You forgot to say on what level you play. When playing against monarch or higher, you win early space race often because the world's technological pace is higher.

 

[BrantleyL1]

You forgot to say on what level you play. When playing against monarch or higher, you win early space race often because the world's technological pace is higher.

I've been playing on Noble. Proabably ought to step that up. The pace being quicker might bethe explanation as to why I've seen comments about early space race victories.

But the AIs can do it too. My question is mostly a discussion point.

How do you get to an early space race victory? I don't think a beeline to Rocketry (to start the Apollo program) would work - as it would bypass some critical early techs.

 

[Sisiutil]

Ironically, one of the best ways to win an early space race victory is to do what you've been avoiding: war.

Land is power, in many respects. With more cities and more resources on good land, you can research faster--especially if you get a good great person farm as well (foreign capitals are often ideal for this). You'll also have more optimal production cities.

Try an early axe rush. They're still do-able even if you need to found a second city to claim copper. Heck, you could even chariot-rush if you use enough of them. Then, if you have a mid-game UU, plan another war to coincide with its ascendancy. This should gain you enough land to be in a commanding position to accelerate first research and then SS parts building.

Also remember that around the time you're ready to start building parts, you need to transition from a research-oriented economy to a production-oriented one. One thing you can do here is change from representation (with its research bonus per specialist) to universal suffrage (for its hammer bonus for each town).

Other tactics you can use for the fast track to Alpha Centauri:

• I want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? Aluminum.
• A late golden age. Save the great people you need and start the golden age when your cities are just starting to build the most numerous parts (SS casings and SS thrusters).
• Try to start the GA after you've built laboratories.
• If you're playing with the Beyond the Sword expansion pack, ignore the space elevator. Its tech path is now a completely unnecessary diversion (2 very expensive techs worth, in fact) to building the space ship.
• However, if you're playing BtS, try to found Mining Inc. The hammer boost from that corporation can be nothing short of amazing.
• If you're not playing BtS or fail to found Mining Inc, plan on switching to the State Property civic for the hammer boost to watermills and workshops.
• Some techs you can ignore: flight (!), composites, mass media, divine right, medicine, fascism. In BtS, you'll need composites, but add computers (!), robotics, advanced flight, and stealth to the list of techs you can ignore. If you're not going to run state property (see the note on Mining Inc. above) you can ignore communism too.

 

[BrantleyL1]

Ironically, one of the best ways to win an early space race victory is to do what you've been avoiding: war.

Thanks a bunch. This gives me some ideas. I'm going to have to try them out real soon... Right now, I'm bogged down in the GOTM23. I've been busy and got a very late start on it.... It's a real beast - all the early needs are not present. And I'm losing - BAD.

Try an early axe rush. They're still do-able even if you need to found a second city to claim copper.

I've tried that - only had real decent success once. Seems like the last dozen or so games have not had close copper. Which leads to this question... Lets say I found copper, but the location is less than ideal (maybe the middle of a desert) for a city next to it. Is it better to just build the city to get the copper? Or what if it's kind of far awar? Build it? The road becomes a target for wandering barbarians...

...be in a commanding position to accelerate first research and then SS parts building.

By that, do you mean turn up the research slider? Frequently in here, I'm trying to build some military strength - and trying to spend my way into some upgraded units. once I have some surpluss cash, I've turned up the research into a deficit and changed cities over to building research. Is that a good idea?

Other tactics you can use for the fast track to Alpha Centauri:

• I want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? Aluminum.
• A late golden age. Save the great people you need and start the golden age when your cities are just starting to build the most numerous parts (SS casings and SS thrusters).
• Try to start the GA after you've built laboratories.
• If you're playing with the Beyond the Sword expansion pack, ignore the space elevator. Its tech path is now a completely unnecessary diversion (2 very expensive techs worth, in fact) to building the space ship.
• However, if you're playing BtS, try to found Mining Inc. The hammer boost from that corporation can be nothing short of amazing.
• If you're not playing BtS or fail to found Mining Inc, plan on switching to the State Property civic for the hammer boost to watermills and workshops.
• Some techs you can ignore: flight (!), composites, mass media, divine right, medicine, fascism. In BtS, you'll need composites, but add computers (!), robotics, advanced flight, and stealth to the list of techs you can ignore. If you're not going to run state property (see the note on Mining Inc. above) you can ignore communism too.

• I know about Aluminum
• I play vanilla
• A late Golden Age is an interesting thought. I'll have to see if I can make that work.
• What about the space elevator in vanilla?
• I know about Factories & Power. I usually try for the Three Gorges Dam, but build coal plants while I am waiting. Is the effect of Forges also additive?

That's about it. Thanks again for your thoughts.

 

[Sisiutil]

I've tried that - only had real decent success once. Seems like the last dozen or so games have not had close copper. Which leads to this question... Lets say I found copper, but the location is less than ideal (maybe the middle of a desert) for a city next to it. Is it better to just build the city to get the copper? Or what if it's kind of far awar? Build it? The road becomes a target for wandering barbarians...

Early rushes can be very situational. I've written a guide to pulling one off (see the link in my sig).

Cities largely surrounded by desert can still be viable. Check the Alexander/Greece ALC game for an example; my second city, Sparta, was smack-dab in the middle of mostly desert, but became my military (HE) city, and a darned good one.

Distance, however, is indeed a problem. If copper is just too far away, other options are Animal Husbandry for horses and a chariot rush, or Iron Working for, obviously, iron. Swordsman rushes are more challenging, especially pre-catapults, but still viable. If you are lucky enough to have a really good commerce tile or two near your start (gold, silver, gems), that can accelerate research enough so that a sword rush is very, very possible. See the Russia/Peter ALC game for an example.

However, if you have lots of land for expansion, REX may be a better option than an early rush. After all, one of the main motivators for an early rush is that you don't have enough space to expand into. If you do, why bother?

By that, do you mean turn up the research slider? Frequently in here, I'm trying to build some military strength - and trying to spend my way into some upgraded units. once I have some surpluss cash, I've turned up the research into a deficit and changed cities over to building research. Is that a good idea?

Deficit spending on research is a tactic I frequently employ, so yes, I think it's a good idea.

Another tactic for accelerating research is running the best civics, as I mentioned. Representation and free religion are the obvious ones, but other ones that increase your income and let you push up the science slider are also indirectly helpful. So the other preferable choices are free speech and emancipation (if you're running a cottage or hybrid economy) and in vanilla, state property (free market may be a better option in BtS if you can found the best corporations, Mining Inc. and Sid's Sushi). Just remember that you'll want to switch from representation to universal suffrage for the hammer boost when most of your research is done and you're ready to start pumping out space ship parts.

In addition, prioritize buildings that (a) multiply research and (b) multiply commerce (which, again, will help you increase your research rate). Also try hitting up pleased-to-friendly civs for cash gifts every 10 turns or so. They can be remarkably agreeable.

I only upgrade units that are at least one, preferably two or more promotion levels beyond the level at which I can produce them without a civics change. (I will therefore upgrade units less often if I'm spiritual, which makes a temporary civics change into vassalage/theocracy easier.)

I don't like building research. If I have nothing to build in a city, I prefer to build units. If I can't afford more units, I'll build wealth instead of research--wealth will let you push up the science slider, which often results in more research points than building it will. And it will allow you to afford more units, so I can build more of those, as I mentioned.

• A late Golden Age is an interesting thought. I'll have to see if I can make that work.
• What about the space elevator in vanilla?
• I know about Factories & Power. I usually try for the Three Gorges Dam, but build coal plants while I am waiting. Is the effect of Forges also additive?

Remember that the first civ to research fusion gets a free great engineer. By that point in the game, there are often very few wonders to accelerate, especially if the space elevator is finished or close to it. So you can probably combine the GE with another great person for your golden age (2 great people of different types being required for your first golden age in vanilla).

The space elevator in vanilla is often worthwhile, since the tech that enables it also enables one of the space ship parts. So yeah, go for it, it makes the space ship builds that much faster.

I also like the TGD for the space race and forgot to mention it in my list of tips; thanks for reminding me.

Forges multiply production and continue to do so even as you build other hammer multipliers like factories. They work like libraries and universities on research and banks and markets on commerce. However, their heath demerits are also cumulative.

A heads up: in BtS, power adds -2 even if it's from a clean source like the dam or hydro plants. Doesn't make sense to me, but I guess it's a game balance thing.

 

[eewallace]

Over in the strategies and tips section, there is a recent thread by Orion71 called something like "Nobles in Space" in which he walks through an early space race victory on noble. I found it really useful. I've had a number of space race victories on noble, but not as early as his. For one thing, he had alot more cities than I ever had, and basically produced his ship all at once. (Got to go to war to get that many cities...)

 

[jessiecat]

Ironically, one of the best ways to win an early space race victory is to do what you've been avoiding: war.

Land is power, in many respects. With more cities and more resources on good land, you can research faster--especially if you get a good great person farm as well (foreign capitals are often ideal for this). You'll also have more optimal production cities.

Try an early axe rush. They're still do-able even if you need to found a second city to claim copper. Heck, you could even chariot-rush if you use enough of them. Then, if you have a mid-game UU, plan another war to coincide with its ascendancy. This should gain you enough land to be in a commanding position to accelerate first research and then SS parts building.

Also remember that around the time you're ready to start building parts, you need to transition from a research-oriented economy to a production-oriented one. One thing you can do here is change from representation (with its research bonus per specialist) to universal suffrage (for its hammer bonus for each town).

Other tactics you can use for the fast track to Alpha Centauri:

• I want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? Aluminum.
• A late golden age. Save the great people you need and start the golden age when your cities are just starting to build the most numerous parts (SS casings and SS thrusters).
• Try to start the GA after you've built laboratories.
• If you're playing with the Beyond the Sword expansion pack, ignore the space elevator. Its tech path is now a completely unnecessary diversion (2 very expensive techs worth, in fact) to building the space ship.
• However, if you're playing BtS, try to found Mining Inc. The hammer boost from that corporation can be nothing short of amazing.
• If you're not playing BtS or fail to found Mining Inc, plan on switching to the State Property civic for the hammer boost to watermills and workshops.
• Some techs you can ignore: flight (!), composites, mass media, divine right, medicine, fascism. In BtS, you'll need composites, but add computers (!), robotics, advanced flight, and stealth to the list of techs you can ignore. If you're not going to run state property (see the note on Mining Inc. above) you can ignore communism too.

You say ignore computers. But that can be useful if you're behind on techs.
One of my best space victories came from beelinning to the Internet (having saved 2 Great Engineers, I made it in one Turn.) Suddenly I gained eight techs at once. Luckily I had losts of production cities so I built all the
remaining spaceship parts in less than 10 turns and launched in 1928.
The internet can be useful for that.

 

[BrantleyL1]

One of my best space victories came from beelinning to the Internet (having saved 2 Great Engineers, I made it in one Turn.) Suddenly I gained eight techs at once.

I've always thought that was an interesting option, but I've never even attemted the internet until WAY late in the game. (Like I'm working on Future tech 3...) How are the techs you get chosen? Does the game pick them for you or do you get to pick them? If the latter is the case, I'd like to have a printout of the tech tree, that way I know what to get.

 

[jessiecat]

I've always thought that was an interesting option, but I've never even attemted the internet until WAY late in the game. (Like I'm working on Future tech 3...) How are the techs you get chosen? Does the game pick them for you or do you get to pick them? If the latter is the case, I'd like to have a printout of the tech tree, that way I know what to get.

Building the Internet gifts ALL the technologies that have been researched by any 2 other civs. So the further you're behind the more you get.
Unless I'm well ahead in techs, I build it as early as I can, even before
Artillery or Rocketry, as long as I've gat Factories.

 

[Sisiutil]

You say ignore computers. But that can be useful if you're behind on techs.
One of my best space victories came from beelinning to the Internet (having saved 2 Great Engineers, I made it in one Turn.) Suddenly I gained eight techs at once. Luckily I had losts of production cities so I built all the
remaining spaceship parts in less than 10 turns and launched in 1928.
The internet can be useful for that.

Exactly. The Internet can be a life-saver if you're behind in techs. As I was in the ALC Hannibal game, where it saved by sorry butt.