Spanking

[dreadhead7]

I was wondering how you folks feel about spanking as a way of parenting one's children. I've been thinking on this subject quite a lot recently because of a situation that I see brewing with a friend's child.
My friend's son is 13, and has begun to get out of control. Basically, he runs the house. He does nothing that his mother tells him, and speaks to her in any way he sees fit. He's not this way with all adults, only his mom, and to an extent, his dad.
His mom will not parent him; her attempts are halfhearted and ineffectual, at best. She is a single mom. His dad says that he can't handle him, so he's with his mom. The agencies won't help unless the boy has a police record. Something has gone wrong here, and that has lead to my thoughts on parenting, disciplining, spanking, and the like.
The situation above is clearly the result of bad parenting. I believe that a child needs love and discipline to help set them on the right track. But, should spanking be a part of this discipline?
My views on spanking come from my upbringing and culture. My parents grew up during the Depression, so they were of the old school. They definately believed in spankings, and I received my share! I don't have kids, but I have a host of nieces and nephews, and godchildren.
I believe that spanking should only be used as a last resort. I believe that other forms of discipline such as restriction of priviliges, extra chores, witholding allowance, or grounding can work with kids.
Here's the problem. There will always be the child who will test your will against theirs, just to see who's boss. How do you deal with that? Tell me your views.

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"Shake the world beneath your feet up"
--Johnny Clegg

 

[Xiahou-Dun]

I'm 30 years old with a child 8 years old.

And I raise her the way I was raised, spanking included. I was raised you respect your parents. As long as I lived with my parents, I followed their rules.

Now to the question..Here's the problem. There will always be the child who will test your will against theirs, just to see who's boss. How do you deal with that? Tell me your views.

In a test of wills you can't give an inch. Give an inch and they will take a mile. If the child decides he/she isn't going to do something, make them. Spank him/her and if that don't work spank them again. Just don't lose your top/cool. Remember they are testing you and as the adult you don't have anything to prove to the child.


This is my point of view (Not open for disscussion, when you have a child you raise him/her as you see fit)

 

[RedWolf]

On one hand spanking seems wrong. The idea of violence teaching kids ANYTHING seems rather hollow.

YET on the other hand I as a child was spanked. NEVER beaten and NEVER whipped. A quick slap on the bum with an open hand. And even that didn't happen once i got older... Once I became old enough to understand "no tv for a week" - those kinds of punishments were used instead.

I don't think it ever caused any real damage and I was certainly never injured. I'm well adjusted and non-violent (except for in video games). Never been in trouble with the law. I respected my parents and never FEARED them but tried hard not to dissapoint them...

I don't quite know how i feel on this issue. I think I support spanking as an option but don't think I'd have the heart to ever do it myself.

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

Originally posted by RedWolf:
On one hand spanking seems wrong. The idea of violence teaching kids ANYTHING seems rather hollow.... I became old enough to understand "no tv for a week" - those kinds of punishments were used instead.

No TV?

You poor thing!

And yes, the principal that you're teaching your child - when someone does something wrong, you hit them - seems rather dumb. I think it is the 'context' of how the child is spanked. If done by a loving, caring parent in a positive, and non-abusive environment, then yes, I think it is perfectly reasonable. However, the problems start when some idiot folks start whacking their kids left and right for questionable offenses and with excessive force.

I was, and I think I turned out OK...I hope

 

[BlueMonday]

I don't think the answer to this question is as easy as saying spanking is good or bad. I think that much of the punishment a child receives depends both on the child and the parent. Some children really need a little pain in order to enforce the rules; in others, spanking could lead to other problems. Personally, I laugh my ass off whenever I hear someone praising "time out" as the do all of home discipline. If my parents had given me time-out when I was s little tike I would have just looked at them and went, "no seriously, you going to punish me, right?"

I was given a wide range of punishment when I was little. When I was just worked up and excited I was sent to my room. Other times I was forced to do unpleasant housework, or wash my mouth out, and in some circumstances I was given the ole pat on the ass. I had a problem with it back then, but looking back it weren't no problem. It taught me some discipline.

There are Psychologists out there that would see that I was spanked as a child and then look at my police record and say, "AH HA! I knew it. Spanked kids are aggressive." Well I think there full of horsehockey. No amount of time out would have prevented those things; if anything, I'd say that all that military discipline my father forced on me kept me from doing a lot of other horsehockey I don't even want to think about.

Unfortuneatly, my testimonial cannot just be said to say that spanking works. I think so much of the punishment depends on environmental factors. There are countless variables like: how intelligent the kid is, what the parents are like, how aggressive the kid is, and on and on and on. I think it's more important to strike a balance. A parent can't just use spanking nor can they just use time-out. A mid point has to be found that is not very definitive. So much depends on the parent and the kid together.

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[GP]

Hey Dread, I remember you from AOL civ forums and from Poly!

(will I get squashed again?)

 

[dreadhead7]

Wow, that was a loooong time ago!

I haven't posted at either place in over a year.
Squashed?? I don't recall being mean to anyone in my posts...I hope I wasn't mean to you, and I apologize for any misunderstandings.

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"Shake the world beneath your feet up"
--Johnny Clegg

 

[Brad]

Well, there seems to be no doubt in my mind that children need disiplin... We've all heard of Brainiac Spocks idea... that clearly didn't work... so something needs to be done.
The question then is "what form do I use?" Well that TOTALLY depends on the child... Alot of the times a stern look will get the point across, or a little voice raising. If those don't work you can't give up... you would try a new approach; <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/spanking.gif" border=0> if you must... or revoke privilages. The problem arrises when children don't respond to anything... because you can't waste 'em... but you can't just let them get away with it. But it depends on the kid... yeah that is my point. O.k... there we go.
BTW: GP + Dreadhead7 Just a slight spamming problem with that... should've used a PM <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/smile.gif" border=0>

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[This message has been edited by Brad (edited July 09, 2001).]

 

[SlowwHand]

The brat is too old to start spanking now.
A swat to get attention was overlooked.
Need to put out in the yard pulling weeds until gets mind right.

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It's In The Way That You Use It
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[Siggy]

I do not like the idea of spanking my (future) kids. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they'll get traumatised because of a spank; but I don't feel right about it. I see spanking as a last resort. It is the last possible way to correct a kid. If I think about spanking like this I wonder if there might have been another way. Besides that, spanking may get out of hand. The boy Dreadhead describes is 13. He clearly doesn't respect his mother like he should. What if he hits back? I think it is way to late to spank him.

I'll probably always have second thoughts about spanking, I do not see it as a part of discipline. It is a last resort for parents who are a bit desperate. That doesn't mean I won't spank when I'll once have children. I might get desperate too.

 

[drake]

I don't see anything wrong with it. I agree that it should be used as a last resort when more mild disciplines don't get the intended effect. However, this is definetly a punishment for little kids, probably 5 or 6 and under. Kids older than that will get embarressed and most likely resentful.

Yeah that 13 year old sounds like a very angry kid. Sounds like both his parents have given up on him, which is really too bad.

They're gonna have to show him they really care. If they don't know how to do that by now, they probably never will.

 

[GenghisK]

I prefer parents spanking their kids rather than:
_ slapping (the shock is bad for the brain)
_ let them become gangsters
_ let them spank their own parents (this is not a joke, I have seen such situations with kids between 4 to 14 yeasr doing that)

And well, no offense to USAnian or Scandinavian people, I think it's hypocritical to forbide spanking children. They say it's for "protecting children rights". Pfff.... The back is done for that after all. There's no danger. When diplomacy fails, this is the last solution. Of course, I don't talk about beating kids with blackjacks but there's a step between spanking and beating.

I received numerous spankings in my youth (started at 2 years

) and until I was 13 I still got an average of 2 to 3 spanks per week. But I don't regret what my parents have done. It helps becoming an adult.

A last thing. You will surely yell but you can't deny that because it's (unfortunately) the truth. Most of parents who say "I don't spank because it's horrible" are lying. They are too lazy too educate their kids. Most of them don't even have the sense of responsibilities so how do you want them to teach their offspring.
You can't build solid building on sand... If even the parents aren't well educated, they can't transmit anything good to their heirs. End of the statement. Thanks for reading.

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[SlowwHand]

I tell you what I did, and it worked well.
Daughter messing with stereo? Thumped hand.
Startles and gets attention.
Thump on head, big attention getter.
She would be glad to vouch for this.

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It's In The Way That You Use It
Tuatha De Danann Tribe
ICQ 51553293

 

[xeven_god_of_helsibahr]

the disiplin depends totally on the child. There are four classifications for children:

Inteligent and Non-Aggresive
Usually a good bit of voice raising'll do the trick. If not, try spanking.
Inteligent and Aggresive
A type of child you may have to disiplin more than once a day. Try voice raising, mouth washing, and privledge revoking. If those do not work, try spanking with quick, hard slaps that get your point across.
'Simple-minded' and Non-Aggresive
Use privledge revoking for things like not cleaning up their room, leaving their toys around the house, etc. Use mounth washing for swearing, name calling, etc.
'Simple-minded' and Aggresive
Use spaking only after you have tried everything else multiple times.

My parents used this system, and so did their parents, and so did their parents, and some day I will. I hope this helps you.

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[drake]

Sounds like you got that crap straight out of a psychology book xeven :\

And really, what parent is going to treat their kid as "simple minded"? Hmm?

 

[xeven_god_of_helsibahr]

No, drake, it's just an unwriten system of disiplinary action in my family.

And as for the 'Simple-minded', I just ment a child that jumps to conclusions like: 'If someone does something bad, I am supposed to hit them.'

 

[GP]

Originally posted by dreadhead7:
Wow, that was a loooong time ago! <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/smile.gif" border=0> I haven't posted at either place in over a year.
Squashed?? I don't recall being mean to anyone in my posts...I hope I wasn't mean to you, and I apologize for any misunderstandings.

I meant squashed by the moderators...not by you. They are kinda tough on OT talk in the OT. Do the AOL boards still exist?

 

[GP]

Isn't it true that pain is a very effective behavoir modifier in other animals? Why souldn't it be so in humans? Seems like a very clear discipline step. As long as you don't maim 'em, all you have to worry about is their tender little self-esteem...well...good for them to toughen up a little...too many mama's boys being raised nowadays.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Originally posted by GP:
I meant squashed by the moderators...not by you. They are kinda tough on OT talk in the OT. Do the AOL boards still exist?

No Navy, we are kind of tough on drifting from the thread topic.
Also, C-141 boy was rather obscure.

I don't mind it all that much, George, as long as you get back on, like you did.

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[stormerne]

I speak as someone who has raised four kids to adulthood. The question isn't as simple as "to spank or not to spank". I've seen parents who in my view should not have been spanking their child. And I've seen parents who weren't but should.

Discipline is not just about punishment: it's a whole attitude, and if the whole thing is not constructive for the child then a parent is missing the point. Too many parents I observe where I live do not apply any discipline except when they reach the end of their tether and they lash out. That is not constructive in my view, and they might as well be children themselves.

My kids learnt to count at a very young age. When Dad said they had to do something (or not do something) and started to count, woe betide any of them that didn't shape up before "Ten!" was reached. If I reached ten, all Hel let loose. But you only have to do that once (per child), and show that you mean it, for the child to gain a little respect. And you can tell them the reason behind your request too, so in time they become thinking self-discplined beings who are a joy to take anywhere.

When they're older, other techniques are more appropriate. An older child thinks he ought to be treated like an adult even if he plainly isn't. Since responsibility comes with adulthood, and privilege doesn't come free, there's always some space for negotiation. Being completely open and honest with them about your reasons, expectations and motives is the best foundation I know for relating to adolescent children.

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