Spies and counter-intelligence

[zeta]

Hey,

I am so sorry if this has been brought up already, but I couldn't resist the urge to write this.

Can someone explain how counter-intelligence works in CBP? In my last playthrough I placed all of my spies to cities with high potential. In vanilla, counter-intelligence means killing spying spies. BUT, in this one my spies didn't kill a single enemy spy (even with constabulary and everything). Sometimes I just got messages where it told me what civ spied on me but nothing else. Is this the only purpose of counter-intelligence? Knowing who is spying on you?

If this's the case, it's pretty weak in my opinion. I didn't even get any promotions for spies, because either they didn't stop enemy spies or mechanics are very different from vanilla. I lost so many gold, science and GP points because my spies were useless! Any thoughts on this? Maybe I need to use spies differently?

Playing on 1/23 version.

 

[Gazebo]

Hey,

I am so sorry if this has been brought up already, but I couldn't resist the urge to write this.

Can someone explain how counter-intelligence works in CBP? In my last playthrough I placed all of my spies to cities with high potential. In vanilla, counter-intelligence means killing spying spies. BUT, in this one my spies didn't kill a single enemy spy (even with constabulary and everything). Sometimes I just got messages where it told me what civ spied on me but nothing else. Is this the only purpose of counter-intelligence? Knowing who is spying on you?

If this's the case, it's pretty weak in my opinion. I didn't even get any promotions for spies, because either they didn't stop enemy spies or mechanics are very different from vanilla. I lost so many gold, science and GP points because my spies were useless! Any thoughts on this? Maybe I need to use spies differently?

That's just bad luck. Spies can and will kill other spies as counter-intelligence spies. Keep in mind that higher-level spies have a much better chance of killing an enemy, so it's a good idea to level them up elsewhere first.

G

 

[Atlas627]

Constabulary lowers potential, so your opponents might actually have been AVOIDING those cities.

 

[zeta]

That's just bad luck. Spies can and will kill other spies as counter-intelligence spies. Keep in mind that higher-level spies have a much better chance of killing an enemy, so it's a good idea to level them up elsewhere first.

G

Are you sure it's just luck? They stole something like every 5-10 turns and my spies NEVER stopped any attempt. Yes, they were lvl 1 ranked spies, but this does feel weak.

 

[zeta]

Constabulary lowers potential, so your opponents might actually have been AVOIDING those cities.

They sent spies to the cities where my spies were in.

 

[Kolaris]

Are you sure it's just luck? They stole something like every 5-10 turns and my spies NEVER stopped any attempt. Yes, they were lvl 1 ranked spies, but this does feel weak.

Yeah, I don't agree with it but lvl 1 spies are completely worthless at counter-espionage. You have to level them up before they have a shot. For some reason using them as Diplomats will level them up faster, especially on powerful conniving AIs.

 

[zeta]

Got a few of my spies to lvl 2 now, they still can't stop other civs from stealing. This is something ridiculous.

 

[grmagne]

That's just bad luck. Spies can and will kill other spies as counter-intelligence spies. Keep in mind that higher-level spies have a much better chance of killing an enemy, so it's a good idea to level them up elsewhere first.

G

Do spies gain levels/experience by any means other than stealing a technology? I like to put my best spies in my own capital if it's vulnerable but I've never figured out how to get them to level 3 other than stealing two techs from the AI.

 

[IcyAngel]

Do spies gain levels/experience by any means other than stealing a technology? I like to put my best spies in my own capital if it's vulnerable but I've never figured out how to get them to level 3 other than stealing two techs from the AI.

Spies can level from advanced spying activities, like stealing yields or assassinating Great People. It's convenient, because it only takes a few turns (while establishing surveillance).

 

[ExpiredReign]

This phenomenon has always bugged me too but it is as G says, bad luck. The code allows for a successful spy attack regardless of the defenses you put in place, ie. there is always SOME chance of success. In your case the AI was just rolling good numbers all the time.

 

[Finarvi]

Do spies gain levels/experience by any means other than stealing a technology? I like to put my best spies in my own capital if it's vulnerable but I've never figured out how to get them to level 3 other than stealing two techs from the AI.

It's good idea to place your spies as diplomats - they can level up (relatively fast, I'd say) and increase your relations with other civs (rather than angering civilization from which you would steal technology). Their information can sometimes be useful and you get vision of capital (and see wonder construction progress). You also get tourism bonus and see opinions on world congress (and be able to trade for votes which is great too).

If you are behind in techs it is good to level by stealing techs. Especially if enemy has few cities with high potential, so it is less likely that you will be killed.

 

[notque]

My take would be that it should be as obvious as possible to a player. I think that all actions should have some chance to increase the level of a spy.

From spying on city states and rigging elections (which don't seem to level them) to counter-intelligence.

It should all work as you'd expect, performing actions gains experience. The only time you could argue that it shouldn't is if you are counter-intelligence-ing a city with no foreign spys.

 

[Gazebo]

My take would be that it should be as obvious as possible to a player. I think that all actions should have some chance to increase the level of a spy.

From spying on city states and rigging elections (which don't seem to level them) to counter-intelligence.

It should all work as you'd expect, performing actions gains experience. The only time you could argue that it shouldn't is if you are counter-intelligence-ing a city with no foreign spys.

This is how it works.

G

 

[notque]

This is how it works.

G

Then I've been particularly unlucky. In all the games I've played, I almost never level a spy (only from counter intelligence), and have never leveled a spy in city state missions.

I tend to not ever use spys for stealing techs to keep relations, so I will go entire games with all spys in city states, and they never level up.

 

[grmagne]

Then I've been particularly unlucky. In all the games I've played, I almost never level a spy (only from counter intelligence), and have never leveled a spy in city state missions.

I tend to not ever use spys for stealing techs to keep relations, so I will go entire games with all spys in city states, and they never level up.

That's been my experience as well. My spies always gain a level from stealing tech but I can't recall ever gaining a level for a different reason.

 

[grmagne]

That's been my experience as well. My spies always gain a level from stealing tech but I can't recall ever gaining a level for a different reason.

I paid close attention last night and I definitely have a spy that gained a level without ever stealing a tech. He pulled off multiple assassinations and small thefts and then got bumped up to Agent status. He's been a nice thorn in the Zulus side.

 

[notque]

I paid close attention last night and I definitely have a spy that gained a level without ever stealing a tech. He pulled off multiple assassinations and small thefts and then got bumped up to Agent status. He's been a nice thorn in the Zulus side.

I am also paying close attention in my current game. I focus primarily on city states with spys, and it will be very obvious to see if any of them upgrade.

 

[Lissindiel]

Just finished a game using one of the recent betas. Got two spies early via the patronage policy, leveled them up to a lvl 3, put one of them into my capital. And nothing. The guy failed to stop every single assassination/sabotage/robbery attempt. The situation became really ridiculous somewhere around industrial era, when four other civs permanently DoW'ed me. Don't remember getting another GP from that city ever since.

 

[hokath]

Do spies level up in city states? I rarely send them there, so haven't noticed. Diplomats all the way, baby.

 

[Hyronymus]

Choose the proper religious beliefs to block GP assasination in your cities. I can't check at the moment but one belief comes with a building that blocks this when you constructed it.