Spies Are Clutch in Space Race

[JusNaturae]

I just finished my first game on Noble. Won by a hair's breadth as Hatty. I was top in points and realized in 1992 or so that Julius Caesar and Catherine were both WAY ahead of me in the space race. I jumped to get the SE built as quickly as possible and got my Apollo Program up and running only after both JC and Cath had all 5 casings and a thruster apiece. I had the advantage in well equipped cities so after burning through near starvation to get 6 of my cities set up with laboratories, I started punching through ship pieces myself. I had caught up enough so that we all only had one piece left (for me, engine, for Cath and JC, stasis). Finally finished SY and got 4 spies running around their cities looking for the last pieces. I found Cath and she was easily 4 turns ahead of me to win (JC was well behind) and I didn't have enough $$ to bust her production. However, I did have enough to ravage the countryside at the production point. The reduced production managed to knock down her Stasis by 5 turns and I launched 1 year before she finished.

Man, those spies were clutch! I should never have won that game, having lost sight of the tech race and gotten so far behind. No army would have been able to do anything worthwhile in time, and I didn't have the nuclear option available. I know many players have been complaining that the spies are a lot weaker than CivIII, but just the recon capabilities alone almost feel like cheating when you're in a tight space race, never mind their production slowing capacity. I'm not sure they're as useful for much else, but if you're planning on a space race victory (which is, what, 60-80% of the time?) make sure you've got 4 gals ready to knock out your opponents' SS production capabilities.

 

[WetWarev7]

Very cool!

 

[Aleph]

I had almost the same situation in a game I finished last night. Except, I lost. One of the problems I ran into with the spies was this: After successfully destroying SS production in two cities, the bomb icon was never again lit up - I couldn't do it again. I ran around destroying production tiles as quickly as possible, but it was about 7 turns too little too late.

Anybody run into the spies not being able to destroy production? What causes this?

{edit} ahh I think I see...costs bookoo bucks to destroy production...

 

[minger]

wow, thanks for the awesome tips...

It IS annoying how every game ends up in the space race...

 

[Reprisal]

There have been games in which I have lost the space race by a few turns, and it annoyed me to no end. This is invaluable information and I thank you. Scotland Yard will be a priority when I'm shooting for Alpha Centauri from now on...

 

[JusNaturae]

It's almost a little unfair (and, dare I say, unbalanced?). Late in the game, if you've got a stash of cash (and let's face it, if you don't you're probably in a heap of trouble anyway) you can basically enact a limited war with minimal diplomatic penalties and practically no negative reciprocity by using your spies to wreak havoc around your opponents' resource centers (which is about as effective as you can hope for from a late-game war anyway). It's obviously a killer strategy for Space Race -- I wonder how useful it is otherwise.

 

[Zatar]

It IS annoying how every game ends up in the space race...

So select custom game when you start and turn off the space race win condition...

 

[Quasimodo]

wow, thanks for the awesome tips...

It IS annoying how every game ends up in the space race...

Could always just turn the Space Race victory off before the game. Then, you don't have to worry about it.

 

[FuriousJorje]

I was in a similar situation last night, although I was going for a Domination victory, and was racing the Incas who were Space Racing.

Anyways, I saw the option to destroy production, but it said something like 'Chances of Success: 1-51%', and that scared me off. I didn't want to pay 2500 gold for a possible 1% chance at destroying their SS component producion.

Does anyone know what affects the probability of success for a spy attempting to destroy production?

 

[JusNaturae]

As I mentioned in the OP, its kind of cost prohibitive to actualy destroy the production itself (though I brought it upon myself when I dragged my top cities into starvation, sacrificing commerce so they could build labs faster), but it costs a lot less (200g each in my case) to destroy improvements, all of which offered up to a 90% success rate. It can even be more effective than destroying production because its much more permanent. If you think about it, if you blow a mine and knock an anvil down to 1 hammer at a city that's got a lab, a forge, a factory and a power source, you've basically PERMANENTLY eliminated around 8-12 hammers from their production line, which is usually enough not only to reduce their build time by several turns, but seriously dampen their space racing capabilities. If you can eliminate their biggest cities as SS production centers, you will effectively eliminate their threat of winning the space race.

 

[FuriousJorje]

They can't just rebuild the mine?

When a spy destroys an improvement, it's gone permanently?

 

[CrackedCrystal]

They can rebuild the mine, but if you only need to delay your oppenent for 3 or 4 turns, destroying it will buy you the time.

 

[BuckeyeMC]

Same thinng happened to me. Diplomatic victory was a stalemate, so I was going to coast to a "time" victory since I was well ahead in points, and I did not think that Cyrus had enough big cities to get all the spaceship parts done fast enough. There was no way my military could do anything, so I sent in some spies to sabotage his production. Fortunately running them from city to city I was able to find all of them in time before he got the stasis chamber done. If you are already working on a space race victory it should almost guarantee a win provided you have the cash. But if you all-of-a-sudden need to make a switch (to the space race), you better have some spies and cash, and be ready to get your biggest production cities cranking out those spaceship parts. Now I play a custom game and turn off the space race condition, so the same result doesn't happen again if I play a peaceful game.

 

[PugFugly]

How many turns (roughly) does it take a decent size civ (default map size setting on noble) to build the spaceship? I have 85 turns left and Mansa Musa has built the first 5 pieces. Will he make it?
Are there any resources that can be denied to prevent critical pieces from being built?

 

[VoxDei]

{edit} ahh I think I see...costs bookoo bucks to destroy production...

I'm glad it's not just me who missed that. I just lost a game because I didn't realise that was why I couldn't sabotage his SS parts until five turns before he finished the last one.

How many turns (roughly) does it take a decent size civ (default map size setting on noble) to build the spaceship? I have 85 turns left and Mansa Musa has built the first 5 pieces. Will he make it?
Are there any resources that can be denied to prevent critical pieces from being built?

Quite possibly. Depends on how far up his tech is, but I'd have said 85 turns was plenty. If you deny him Aluminium it will double his production time for all SS parts, so that'd be the primary target.

 

[Gufnork]

Aluminium gives you +100% production speed for most SS parts. It doesn't halve production times. He most likely has Forge, Factory (with power) and Laboratory giving him +125% production. Aluminium provides another +100% for a total of +225% production. Destroying his aluminium would thus increase his production time by 44%, not nearly as good as doubling it.

Spies are invaluable for more than just space race. Without having to pay a thing you'll know everything about your opponents cities. Wonder if it's worth bothering to get that wonder? Have a spy see when your opponents will have it built. What civ to attack? The spy can tell you a civs defenses. Is a civ vulnerably to nukes? Ask the spies (so that civ have no ICBMs and will finish production of Bomb Shelters in their capital in one turn... ). Their missions may be expensive, but they're damn good scouts.

 

[ipris]

Great use of spys. i wish i would have thought of that. a couple games back i lost a SR by two turns.

 

[vodkamattvt]

Im not with my game right now, but I assume the counter to this would be your spies (which from what I remember can see enemy spies). Just station them around the cities building space ship parts.

 

[JusNaturae]

And that's a good strategy for MP (except for the limit of 4 and the likelihood that you'll need more than 4 cities dedicated to SS parts if you want to win the race), for SP, the AI hasn't (in my limited experience) seen building Scotland Yard as a priority. And I'm not sure how well the AI is programming to balance keeping spies close vs. using them on opponents, given that you only get 4 at a time.

 

[Pornflakes]

I just finnished a huge map where i had 1 turn left to complete ss engines (last part needed) and i had a spy camped in saladins capital destroying his last piece ss stasis but washington came in and stole it.
1 Damn turn away!!!