Spoiler: Ancient and Classical Rome.

I planned a conquest of Greece, but at the last minute they slipped a settler out. War weariness was getting bad and Astronomy was getting close, so I didn't feel like chasing them. Several centuries later I bumped Delphi off with a couple knights.
 
Didn't take any notes, so I'll try to recreate my actions from the memory.
Unfortunately, do not remember the timeline. :(

Found Rome at the spot, didn't mean to grab an early religion: the chance of none religious civ out there was too small (The first three religions were found soon, so my assumption seems to be right). Built some worriers to explore the continent, worker to improve the tiles. Learnt some worker's techs. Then bronze and iron working. Chopped few settlers.
Built Antium near wheat and horses, Cumae on the stone, later Neapolis near iron, trying to block the way to the north for whoever it is. When I realized that Alex is the only possible victim in a short term, I decided not to rush with the military (he's not going anywhere). His phalanx has no chance against my paetorian. :king:
Planned to move south as mush as I could, when he declared war on me.
I only had archers and axes (no IW discovered yet), he had axes and lost them all. Agreed to peace after few turns and granted me a nice pile of gold.
Meanwhile, I found Confucianism in Cumae and later got the shrine.
Built Hanging Gardens in Rome (since I am an expansionist, planning to grow some HUGE cities ) and Chichen Itza (no hope for too much cultural defence bonus). Got Greate engineer who was joined to Rome.
Several centuries passed as Alexander declares on me again, only this time I was fully prepared! :devil: In fact, he declared on me just single turn earlier than I was planning to declare on him! :goodjob:
I've already got all my beautiful praets, cats and horsies surrounding his cities and only one last stack was two or three tiles away from his destination.
I had enough time to study Feodalism and Monarchy, switched to Vassalage and Hereditary Rule and built the barracks in all core cities. So all my offensive units already got 2 promotions waiting for me to decide which of them I want. Started the journey towards domination victory I kept in mind, that probably won't be able to use UU's against other civs as they would be out of date by that time. So I wanted my army beeing well promoted and ready for future upgrades. :cool:
The "Great" (:lol: ) brought two galleys with swords and axes and even managed to destroy my mine :mischief: . But the swords and axes found their death shortly and so did Alex himself several turns later. He was nice enough to build some very pretty cities and improve the lands arround them mostly wisely, which is not typical of AI :crazyeye: .
I had all the south for myself with northern jungles unsettled. Barbs were very considering and spared me a settler by building city on the dyes. Once I've settled my last city on the continent (the 17th) friend from the overseas jumped to say Hi! :beer:
I'm slightly behind in technology (economy, as expected, has been damaged by wide expansion), but have 11 cities more than he does, and my score is almost double as his. :clap:
 
Going for a military victory, probably Domination
Don’t have a firm grasp of scoring yet, so I imagine a high-ranking score is pretty unlikely!

Founding Rome (and the first really tough decisions in this game)
We were in a great starting area with all the commerce bonuses, but a step SW to the plain/hill with my warrior revealed a wheat. And unlike the corn in our starting area, this food bonus was on a river, which would give an additional +1 food due to being on fresh water. That would make the tile better than the corn by one hammer before civil service was discovered. That benefit, along with the extra shield we would get by settling on top of the plain/hill (thankfully pointed out by DaveMcW in the pregame thread), seemed to justify two moves with the settler. Rome would miss out on the sizable commerce bonus of the gems, but that seemed to be offset by getting the worker one turn earlier, and the city producing two additional shields at size one after the first tile was farmed. A 33% increase in total food/hammer production seemed a pretty good tradeoff.

Exploration (aka, Useless Huts and the Death of Four Warriors)
The first hut was as good as it got for the poor Romans, yielding 51g. Next came a map, which revealed many, many tiles out to the west of the hut. Nothing unusual about that, except that all those tiles happened to be ocean. Handy knowledge, that. :rolleyes:

In 3320 our first brave warrior spotted a third hut, which was stolen by a Greek scout dashing before his very nose. To make matters worse, the scout established “diplomatic” relations with some inane, belittling comment. As the disheartened, angry warrior moved to occupy the insolent scout’s tile, the scout departed. No doubt running from the hidden bear that promptly made a meal of our sullen warrior. :(

Subsequent warriors (which I had never expected to need vs. animals on Noble level) popped an additional warrior (who died a few turns later to a barb), and experience of woodsman level 2 (which didn’t save afore mentioned warrior—fortified in the jungle—from the attacking barb warrior). Two other warriors were also eaten by animals.

Expansion
Rome’s initial builds were: worker (3440 bc), warrior, warrior, settler (2720), settler (2480), warrior, worker. The animal problem was, of course, what led to all the warriors. Otherwise, I would have left that duty for my second city. As a result, Rome was size 3 by 2920 bc, and I had never intended it to be above size 2 during early expansion. This additional size wasn’t bad, per se, but with the way things worked out, I probably would have been better off founding my first city near the gems, so that extra population point could have worked something more useful than a silk/grass/forest tile or an irrigated grassland.

My second city was founded 2S of the gems, in a location that claimed many, many hills as well as two corn tiles (one after expansion). I intended this city to be a production center early, and a leader farm later in the game due to all the extra food.

The third city was founded directly on top of the stone. That one was probably the easiest decision regarding city location of my entire game. Stone in the desert isn’t a very good tile (0f, 3h, 0c), so founding the city on it would actually improve it. The tile was also the only location which could utilize the fish. A worker accompanied this settler down, and immediately chopped two forests (for 60 hammers each), which completed Stonehenge.

The fourth city was founded on the east coast between the two sugar tiles, and the fifth was founded down south in a location that claimed the copper and the sheep. This city would later become the best hammer producer in the empire, and it built the Pyramids with the help of a few chops. I expect the Pyramids are very important when going for an early domination victory: the techs which allow access to the three best government civics aren’t available until far too late in the tech tree.

Here are the stats (and a screenie) of the empire in 1000bc:
5 cities
18 population
7 workers (who have been chopping down forests as fast as their little axes can go)
10 warriors (and 1 body brutalized by a barb club, 3 skeletons picked cleaned by animals)
1 barracks
1 Christian Missionary
5 granaries
The Oracle
Stonehenge
Score: 544

40TM1-bradleyfeanor-post1-1.jpg


Tech Progression and Reasoning
I still have much to learn about this game—especially regarding tech research choices. I decided to include my reasoning here in hopes that others might do the same. (Or at least mention their key tech goals and why)

3600 bc, Agriculture; chosen in order to increase Rome’s worker/settler production capacity by 75% at city size 1)
3080, Bronze Working; all-important ability to chop forests for quicker settlers and workers
2760, Masonry; stone has been spotted, which means that if we claim it, Stonehenge can be built with 2 quick forest chops (60 hammers each with stone). Also need this tech for the Pyramids, which I consider the most useful wonder in the game. Early access to Representation, Police State and Univ. Suffrage are very powerful.
2520, Wheel; roads aren’t really important yet, but I will need Pottery soon.
2320, Mysticism; for Stonehenge and its handy, early border expansions
2080, Pottery; granaries are great for faster growth, especially the 30-hammer granaries expansionists get. Until courthouses are available, every future city will build a granary first.
1800, Polytheism; really wanted to get Iron Working here, but the free tech from the Oracle is very nice, so decided to go for it. I’m still working out the best tech to acquire with the freebie (Dave’s Feudalism sounds like a powerful and better option), but I decided I would try for Theology for the extra +2 experience points and Christianity. Code of Laws would be my fall-back tech if someone got Christianity in the meantime. Since I didn’t utilize the Theocracy civic until much, much later, this was likely a poor choice.
1640, Priesthood; to start Oracle
1280, Monotheism; wanted to get Animal Husbandry here because I now had a sheep city, but no one had founded Judaism yet!?! Had to go for it—missed it by one turn. :( Not a big deal though. Mono also enables the powerful Organized Religion civic which allows no-monastery missionary creation (which would be needed very shortly), and cheaper building construction.
1080, Writing; needed to open up Theology for choice as the free Oracle tech. Libraries too.
1040, Theology; see Polytheism above for my reason in choosing it. The Romans switch to Organized Religion immediately after converting to Christianity.
875, Animal Husbandry; need to hook up Sheep for the shield-rich city of Pisae.
675, Iron Working; no explanation needed. I was awfully late in getting this tech (but lucked out in its appearance right beneath one of my cities).
450, Math; decide to get the Hanging Gardens. It’s cheap since we have stone, and 9 extra citizens will be a nice boost for the empire. It will also be needed for Construction and catapults.
225, Currency; to boost the economy. It provided 18 total gold/beakers, which was around a 15% increase at the time. When I built my one-and-only marketplace in my double-shrine city later, it would provide an additional boost.
100, Code of Laws; needed to reduce the expenses (24g) of the empire. Since we would soon be going over 10 cities with the conquest of the Greeks, expenses would go up rapidly without courthouses. Also, no one had Confucianism yet.
1 AD, Alphabet; only picked this tech because I hoped that Firaxis, in the patch, might have changed the fact that an AI will NOT trade a tech if it thinks it has a monopoly on it. They didn’t, so this research was a waste.

Here is a status report and screenshot of the empire at 1 AD:
9 cities
58 population
10 workers
10 warriors
2 praetorians
6 barracks
8 granaries
1 aqueduct
3 libraries
1 courthouse
1 temple
Stonehenge
The Oracle
The Pyramids
Church of the Nativity
Hanging Gardens
Score: 1106

40TM1-bradleyfeanor-post1-2.jpg


Tech Progression continued
175, Civil Service; several cities needed irrigation to enable more growth. Also, the bureaucracy civic (+50% commerce and hammers in the capitol) is quite powerful.
200, Sailing; time to try and get off this continent, although this is just the first in a line of many, many tech requirements.
250, Calendar; several cities had reached the happiness limit, so plantations would be helpful.
375, Metal Casting; forges, which were immediately queued up in almost every city in the empire.
400, Hunting; don’t remember why I researched this.
425, Literature; wanted to get the National Epic built in my great person city. Wasn’t too concerned with Great Library since we lacked marble. (Although in hindsight I probably should have gone for it)
500, Compass; still working toward Astronomy
540, Construction; this detour from the Astronomy path was required because several cities were ready to start building catapults for the conquest of the Greeks (already had about 12 praetorians).
660, Machinery; back on the road to Astronomy.
740, Optics
760, Monarchy; this little detour was to get another luxury to help combat war weariness during the impending Greek war.
940, Astronomy; finally! We begin an effort to locate the other civs and circumnavigate the globe for +1 movement for our boats.

Religion
I wasn’t going for one of the three early religions in this game, having noted that the AIs usually pick them up very quickly. But, as I mentioned earlier, no one had Judaism at 1280 bc, so I went for it and missed it by one turn. I was, however, going for Christianity and I used the Oracle’s free tech in 1040 bc to get it. I immediately converted to the religion then revolted to Organized religion in order to build missionaries and spread it to all my cities. I was going to convert the Buddhist Greeks as well, but they closed the borders before I could do so (just a few turns after I adopted Christianity).

The holy city got its shrine in 550bc.

I managed to get Confucianism in 100bc, and fortunately, it was founded in the same city that founded Christianity. The Christian shrine was providing me with 13gpt in 350ad, when another great prophet appeared. He built the Confucian shrine, which added 6 gold or so more.
Ah, Noble difficulty level is such a friendly little thing.

Economy
Economics in Civ 4 is another thing I am still learning, so I thought I would post a little economic data from select dates.

2920bc: 12 science (b), 0 gold (g), 0 expenses (e); (Rome grows to size 3) -- really missing those gems about now
2400: 13b, 0g, 2e (Third city founded)
2000: 16b, 0g, 4e (4th city founded)
1400: 15b, 6g, 7e (5th city)
1320: 22b, 8g, 8e (gems finally mined)
675: 26b, 22g, 20e (7th city founded, adding 5 maintenance expense immediately)
550: 34b, 24g, 20e (Church of Nativity)
250: 64b, 25g, 24e (8th city, but 3 libraries now built)
225: 81b, 26g, 24e (Currency discovered. Nice income boost!)
1 ad: 112b, 24g, 31e (9 cities currently)
375: 152b, 38g, 43e (10 cities, have a market in my double-shrine city (+20g without taxes))

Civics
Revolts occurred in the following years:

1000bc: Slavery, Organized Religion
I adopted slavery just in case I needed to rush a military unit somewhere, but really didn’t need it. Org. Religion was what I wanted for the missionaries and cheaper buildings. I would have revolted 7 turns sooner, when I discovered the necessary technology, but I was afraid an AI might steal the Oracle from me by a turn if I did.

450bc: Representation
Representation is great for the extra happiness, and the three bonus beakers for specialists aren't bad. At some later date I will probably switch to Police State for reduced war weariness and cheaper units.

680ad: Caste System, Bureaucracy, Theocracy
I needed Theocracy so I could get an extra promotion for my units, Bureaucracy for the extra commerce and shields in the capitol, and Caste System…well, I really didn’t need it at that time, but I would down the road when I started conquering cities. Artists are great for expanding borders quickly.

I wish I could have taken advantage of Theocracy sooner, since I had had it since 1000bc. At first I delayed because I needed to get Christian missionaries out, then because I needed to get Confucian missionaries out, and then because I was waiting for Civil Service and wanted to get two civics into one revolt. All those delays were ok. The forth delay was not: I forgot. Uhgh! As a result, I ended up with about a dozen Praetorians that had only one promotion to start with.

Great People
I had three Great People during the scope of this thread:

625bc, Great Prophet, Church of Nativity
350bc, Great Prophet, Kong Miao
900ad, Great Engineer, saving him, probably for Versailles

The first prophet was produced by my city that built Stonehenge—no surprise there. The second 2 were produced by my “Great Person City” with the two food bonuses. It hasn’t produced many though, as I didn’t get the National Wonder built until 860ad, and I didn’t see much reason to slow its growth/production before then. I was shooting for a scientist on the latter two births (> 60% chance), but oh well. I guess I wont be building an academy this game.

Military Promotions
Most of my Praetorians before Theocracy’s +2 experience points got City Raider I for a promotion. Having City Raider promotions seems to be the most powerful to me, especially if those units are upgraded to Grenadiers later. About every 4th unit got a Combat 1 promotion (for later promotion to Medic or Combat II). It’s always handy to have a few units with basic combat promotions, because they make better defenders and more effectively attack units in the field.

After Theocracy, most Praetorians were given City Raider II. I built a few spearmen/pikemen to serve as my medics. I like to choose a weak unit for my medics, so they “sink to the bottom of the stack,” and it is harder for the AI’s to direct their attacks against them.

Catapults were all built after Theocracy, and most got City Raider I and Accuracy. Accuracy seems to be a good promotion, because the biggest delay in taking cities in my games has been getting rid of the city defense bonus. I mixed in a good number of City Raider II promotions and a few Barrage promotions. The City Raider II promotions on the Cats are nice because it seems to make it easier to get further promotions.

I didn’t build any mounted units (yet) for two reasons 1) I usually have terrible luck with them against what I am assuming should be their preferred enemies: archery units, and 2) the Greek Phalanx, which I had already noted quite a few of.

The Greek War
I wasn’t in any hurry to take the Greek’s cities. All capturing the additional cities would have done is stress my economy. He had no useful wonders and I had plenty of room to expand. Ideally, I wanted to attack him a few turns before I was ready to ship units off to conquer other continents. But in 125 ad, I captured a barb city down near the floodplain north of the Greeks. That gave him unhappiness because of our “close borders.” That, along with our religious differences, led him to declare war in 800ad…about 3 turns before I was going to declare on him. I probably should have declared on him sooner, but I got caught up in trying to strengthen my economy.

I beat off his attack (I had many praetorians and catapults in position at the time), then took one city and destroyed another which he had put in a ridiculous location. And that’s pretty much all the damage I could do before discovering Astronomy in 940, and most of the events after that date go beyond the scope of this thread.

Conclusion
I am pretty sure this was the longest summary I have written, and that is saying something. ;) If you suffered through the entire thing and spotted some strategy improvements or mistakes I made, please post them!

From this point forward, where to go was very tough to decide. Turn tech off after Engineering and Divine Right, start rushing military units and then hope the economy could hold out during a domination victory? Or should Rome keep researching more advanced economic and military techs? I note that I am already WAY behind DaveMcW in getting to Astronomy. I guess I will find out if I made good decisions when the next spoilers are posted…

EDIT: Added revolt to Representation
 
I won't go into much detail, didn't keep a good log.

I started the war with Alexander in 475 AD. The last city fell in 860 AD and the continent was mine.

I didn't go look for the other civ's, just kept improving my cities and wanted to go for the space race, so it took some time before they found me ;)
 
Bradleyfeanor said:
All capturing the additional cities would have done is stress my economy.
I think this is common wisdom about CivIV that will prove untrue in time. My experience is that undeveloped cities are a drag, but once they are developed, they are a net benefit to your economy.

My analogy to this is how Republic was perceived in CiVIII. It does not appear to be the best choice for a war-mongering civ with a large army, but many GOTM/COTM later we know that the economic benefit of Republic outweighs the cost in gold for each unit.

My developed starting continent had around 15 cities on it. I’m going to do some analysis and compare my tech pace to others (DaveMcW). I'll post some results in a day or so.

StanNP :cool:
 
StanNP said:
I think this is common wisdom about CivIV that will prove untrue in time. My experience is that undeveloped cities are a drag, but once they are developed, they are a net benefit to your economy.

I think you are right, and I look forward to seeing your analysis. Perhaps I should have said that it would have slowed down my short-term research goal toward Astronomy if I had taken the Greek cities before I did. Each city after 10 carries a pretty hefty maintainence penalty, so I hovered at that point for a while. After Astronomy, I promptly went up to 16 or so on the home continent, and it didn't take long for the new cities to overcome the maintenance penalties.

Cities on other continents, however, are a bit more problematic. :) I hope you put together some numbers on those as well!
 
After I had conquered Alexander, my economy was hell. Even with science at 50% I lost all my savings in a few turns, but after 10 - 20 turns the economy got back on its track and all the markets, grocers and banks started to pay off.
 
Hiya guys.

So, I have given my 'dry run-down' of the Ancient and Classical ages of my Roman empire but-as I have suggested before-I am also writing a narrative version for people to read. Now, I initially, wrongly, posted it in a seperate thread-for which I DO apologise to the moderators (it is still floating around, btw, so please feel free to remove it Ainwood or Renata). Anyway, I am reposting it here in its 'proper' place. It is, when finished, going to be very long and-if people think I should simply wait and post it to the story forums AFTER the GOTM is over-then I will very much understand. Anyway, the point is that I would very much like any feedback you are prepared to give :).

Romulus climbed to the top of the hill to get a better look at the surrounding terrain, and saw a sight he would never have dreamed possible in the early days of his exile. Who would have believed that the internecine conflict that led to his exile, the civil war with his brother Remus, would result in the loser-and not the winner-gaining the spoils. The river valley below him looked magnificent: the river itself glistened under the sun as it flowed eastward towards the distant sea. To his left he saw magnificent stands of trees, with many of them practically oozing strands of white gossamer threads. Looking behind him, Romulus could see several large hills-hills which almost certainly contained valuable minerals and, more importantly, would shield this precious valley from the hot winds that blew off the vast desert to the south, the harsh desert terrain through which he and his followers had to trek in order to reach this place.
Now though, Romulus new that the light he had thought he had imagined a few days earlier was in fact a sign from one of his ancestors, a sign that he and his band of loyal followers should found a city here-in his name. A city which would easily rival the pathetic village of his older brother, and which would be the cornerstone of a great empire and Civilization-a Civilization that would stand the Test of Time!

Rome4000BC.JPG


Romulus returned to the camp of his followers, and told them of what he had seen. Many didn’t believe him, but followed out of their strong sense of loyalty and devotion. When they arrived at the valley, it was already nightfall, but that only seemed to heighten its beauty and mystique. The gossamer strands blew in a gentle breeze, and glistened beneath the silver moon, which was also reflected in the smoothly flowing river. Romulus and his people slept well that night, and were up early the next morning to begin the process of building their new society. Over the ensuing decades, Romulus watched with satisfaction as the collection of rude huts and tents grew into more substantive and defensible dwellings. Meanwhile, a group of veterans from the civil war taught some of their fellow villagers the finer points of how to wield the crude clubs and shields-the equipment that made up the mainstay of their armed forces-whilst other villagers went out into the nearby forests to collect the timber and animal hides necessary to painstakingly build new weaponry.
Romulus sat in his chieftain’s hut, pondering the future of his society, when one of his people came running in with some strange plant material in his hand. ‘Sire, I have made a most amazing discovery. Whilst I was out in the field, I discovered a plant whose seeds are quite edible and, more important, which I believe we could learn how to grow for our own use.’ Romulus held the yellow seed in his hand and, tentatively, bit into it. The juicy sweetness filled his mouth, and he was hooked. ‘My good man,’ said Romulus ‘if you can learn how to grow more of these wonderful seeds, then I would happily promote you to a position as my chief advisor.’ With that, the man left to pursue his new research goal.

Rome3800BC.JPG


As the years passed, Romulus watched as the Village of Rome grew into a small town-its growth largely fueled by the newly discovered craft of the cross-breeding and growing of a variety of wild plants, plants with far higher yields than their respective parents. As promised, Romulus gave a powerful position-at his right hand-to the citizen responsible for discovering this craft. All the while, his newly trained warriors scoured far and wide to make contact with any tribes in the neighboring region who were prepared to make obeisance to the Roman people. The majority of those villages contacted were very friendly, with many providing members of their own tribes to guide the Roman soldiers through the surrounding landscapes. Others proffered up jewels and artifacts made of precious metals and gemstones as tribute to the greatness of Rome, and its leader Romulus. However, as with all things that live beneath the sun and moon, Romulus could feel ever more strongly the passage of time, as it moved towards the time of his death. So it was that, in the 500th year since the exile from his home village, Romulus lay upon his deathbed. In truth, he was fearful of death, as he knew not what lay beyond the shroud which so many of his people-including his beloved advisor-had already passed. He did take some comfort, however, in the knowledge that the son of his advisor-Horatio-had been fully groomed to take over leadership, and that his brother and chief rival-Remus-had probably already gone to his resting place too.
The people Romulus left behind, however, were utterly bereft without their great leader- especially as they had no knowledge of whether or not anything of him, but his earthly remains, still existed. In their sense of grief and isolation, many of the wisest people of Rome decided to set about trying to understand what-if any-fate awaited people beyond the shroud of death.

Rome3300BC.JPG


To be continued....
 
NOTE: made several screenshots showing my plans and status at 1000BC, but only my first screenshot worked :-(. Cant open the other 4. I'll try to explain in text. After first few turns I switched to windowed mode, and in windowed mode screenshots dont work... Bug!

Plan is to build some high commerce cities to provide a financial base for aggressive takeover of neighbours.

4000BC:
Moved East and Founded Rome. Rome starts on worker and Bronze working is the first tech for forest chops.
Warrior moves to hill and starts exploring terrain around Rome in a counter-clockwise direction

3960BC:
Villagers provide me with maps of the region.

3840BC:
Villagers give me 50 gold.

3600BC:
Hinduism is founded elswhere

3560BC:
Warrior kills lion and get Woodsman I

3520BC:
Bronze working is discovered, agriculture is next for corn.

3400BC:
Worker Ready and moves SE to chop forest

3280BC:
30 shields added to Rome for warrior

3240BC:
Worker starts mining gems.

3160BC:
Agriculture is discovered. Mysticism is started

3120BC:
hut gives experience, giving me a woodsman II wow.

3040BC:
Buddhism founded elsewhere

3000BC:
The villagers have provided you with a scout
You have discovered Mysticism! Masonry next for Judaism

2840BC:
Receive map from hut.
Warrior gets killed when two barbs jump him from hut

2760BC
30 shields from forest go to settler

2680BC:
Discover Masonry. Polytheism next.

2640BC:
Settler done and starts heading east. Rome start Stonehenge to grow in size. This will be the plan. Commerce cities to the east of rome on the river and by the sea. Another to the NE of Rome. Southwest and Southeast will be cities for production.

2560BC:
Antium founded to the east for commerce, starts on a few warriors to grow in size and for defense.

2400BC:
Discover Polytheism. Monotheism next, hope to get Judaism.

2280BC:
Alexander, who I met earlier, has Archers…
Scout defeats bear on open terrain. Heroes!

2120BC:
We discover monotheism and found Judaism. Hurray incantation start. Alexander has no religion, but I do plan to roll him over. I decide not o convert him. The wheel and pottery are next.

2080BC:
Scout killed by barbs, but had finished exploring SE anyway…

2000BC:
Judaism spreads to Rome. The Wheel is discovered, pottery next.

1840BC:
Pottery discovered, Iron working next. See if we have any iron…. This is GOTM.

1440BC:
Ironworking is discovered. And we have iron, just east of Rome. Bye bye Alexander.
Stonehenge is also completed. Rome will build one more warrior, to grow to 7 and then start doing expansion work, settlers and workers. Priesthood is up next for the Oracle.

1400BC:
Antium completes Settler and starts on a worker. Changed my mind on production city to the south. One north gives more grassland to use all hills.

1320BC:
Priesthood is discovered and Sailing is next to use fish a little later on.

1280BC:
Cumae founded for production of units, with barbarians in sight, ohoh. One warrior is on defensive duty.

1200BC:
Sailing knowledge is ours, Writing next. Don’t feel the need for more early techs.

1160BC:
Antium completes worker and starts on a Settler.

1040BC:
Writing discovered, Hunting/Archery are next (cheap now) Cumae is now also Jewish.

1000BC:
Hunting discovered.

975BC:
Neapolis founded near iron to make units and starts on a barracks. Worker en route to connect iron.

925BC:
Archery discovered. Code of Laws next. Lets found a few more religions ;-)

875BC:
Science rate to 90% to avoid going below 0g. Gems Mine of Antium pillaged by barbarians…

800BC:
Antium completes settler and starts another worker.

750BC:
Pisae founded to be another commerce city, starts on a workboat.

650BC:
Worker completed at Antium, granary next to stimulate growth.

625BC:
Code of Laws discovered, and Confucianism founded in Neapolis. Missionary sent to Rome, for extra temple with happiness. Rome will be great people factory and needs lots of happiness. Monarchy next for Wineries at Cumae

600BC:
Revolution started to implement caste system and organized religion.

475BC:
Alexander asked for open borders, I refuse because he is on my hit list and he converts to confucionism. Moses is born and heads for my jewish capital Antium to found a shrine.

400BC:
Monarchy discovered and revolution started to change to Bureaucracy and hereditary rule.

350BC:
Jewish shrine built.

150BC:
Woodsman II dies trying to slay barbarians in open terrain, shame…

125BC:
Metal Casting discovered, Mathematics started

1AD:
Discover Mathematics, currency next.

25AD
Settler built at Rome.

50AD:
Ravenna built to do production duties.

200AD:
Currency discovered. Construction next.

275AD:
Science to 80%

350AD:
Construction completed, Calendar next. Meanwhile war build up continues at slow pace. As my production cities get up to speed in size and with forges, they pick up the pace.

425AD:
Christianity has been founded in a distant land (Americans?)

475AD:
Calendar discovered.

500AD
Meditation discovered. Alphabet next.

580AD
Discover Alphabet, Literature next.

640AD:
Discover Literature, Music next.

680AD:
Completed Hanging gardens, all cities grow.

760AD:
Discovered Music, Drama next.

840AD:
Drama discovered, Theology next (for extra xp from Theocracy civic).

940AD
Theology Discovered, and theocracy adopted. Divine right next.

980AD
WAR declared on Alexander. Not completely ready, only 4 catapults and 8 praetorian available, but enough potential to build more as we go.

1010AD:
Use prophet and artist for golden age to fund war effort.

1020AD:
Notre Dame in Antium with great engineer

1030AD:
Take over Sparta from Alexander.

1040AD:
Great Library in Rome.

1070AD:
Divine Right discovered, Pisae founds Islam, Philosophy next.

1080AD:
Alexander sails round with two galleys, lands 4 units on my iron, which he pillages. Next he runs a catapult into my iron city as I round units from nearby to kick him out. I succeed only after he pillaged my corn farm, and iron mine.

1110AD:
Take over Athens.
Sparta taken back by greeks.

1150AD
Sparta taken back

1160AD
Pharsallos captured
Discovered philosophy, taoism founded in Athens.

1170AD
Animal Husbandry discovered.

1190AD
Horseback Riding discovered.

1200AD
Capture Knossos

1210AD
Capture Delphi

1230AD
Civilisation X destroyed. Didnt meet them, hope they enjoyed their stay.

1240AD
Capture Corinth
Discover Machinery

1280AD
Thermopylae captured
Argos Captured
End of Greeks, was a long war but now it's time to build my civ.

1300AD
Spiral Minaret built

1310AD
Fuedalism discovered

1350AD
Chichen Itza built

1360AD
Optics discovered

1400 meet civ X

end of spoiler

Status at 1400AD:
Score 2049
14 cities, 110 population
5 Great People (2 prophet, artist, engineer and scientist)

Civ4ScreenShot0010.JPG

Civ4ScreenShot0011.JPG
Civ4ScreenShot0012.JPG
 
StanNP said:
I think this is common wisdom about CivIV that will prove untrue in time. My experience is that undeveloped cities are a drag, but once they are developed, they are a net benefit to your economy.

My analogy to this is how Republic was perceived in CiVIII. It does not appear to be the best choice for a war-mongering civ with a large army, but many GOTM/COTM later we know that the economic benefit of Republic outweighs the cost in gold for each unit.

My developed starting continent had around 15 cities on it. I’m going to do some analysis and compare my tech pace to others (DaveMcW). I'll post some results in a day or so.

StanNP :cool:

I tend to agree here, I've noticed with a largish empire, in Civ 4 terms, of 15-20 cities, once you get over the initial maintenance bump, you can find yourself with an economic powerhouse that can leave Noble AIs standing in the tech race. I don't know how this pans out at higher difficulty levels or with a very large empire, although Gato Loco's article about maintenance costs in the Strategy forum seems to suggest it may get easier beyond a certain point. With no building maintenance, the only limiting factor on universities etc., is the time taken to build them and when you have cities that can knock one out in a few turns that's not much of a limit.

I look forward to reading your analysis.
 
jeremiahrounds said:
to bad there isnt an easy option for disabling techs for huts. seems like it would be attractive for gotm given it such a huge wildcard.
I might be wrong, but it looks like the huts are giving different things to different players. I assumed their contents were pre-determined when the game was generated and that we would all get the same stuff out of them, but I guess I was wrong.
 
jayeffaar said:
I might be wrong, but it looks like the huts are giving different things to different players. I assumed their contents were pre-determined when the game was generated and that we would all get the same stuff out of them, but I guess I was wrong.

Nope, that's randomized when you pop 'em. However, that'd be another nice option to have in the game setup - predetermined goody huts.

Maybe we'll (well, uh, the GOTM community, I suppose) have to make a GOTM Official Mod...
 
I wouldn't want pre-determined huts. I think there should be a bit of luck involved in the game. It's not like people are getting settlers out of the huts. I don't think popping a tech is that unbalancing. I mean look at my game. I popped iron working yet DaveMcW still managed to dominate me in research.

There are other luck factors in the game too that have just as much impact as getting iron working from a hut does. What if you're building a wonder and the AI beats you to it by 1 turn while in someone else's game he builds that same wonder 10 turns later? Or one guy attacks a city and loses all 8 of his attacking units while another guy takes a similarly defended city with only 5 units. The game is filled with luck. Accept it as part of the game. It's part of what makes it fun.
 
I agree Shillen. I mostly got scouts from my tribal villages-and not a single tech-yet I certainly don't feel cheated in any way. If anything, I can take far greater satisfaction out of how I am doing because I KNOW I didn't get any 'leg-ups' through the tribal villages.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
 
On the whole "well-developed cities pay for themselves front"... after conquering the continent, my economy was wrecked, and I crawled my way to Code of Laws. Wrecked, as in there were times I was at 0% science, researching with specialists, and still losing money... having to MM every city to squeeze myself back up to 0gpt or better, else bear a strike and lose a unit.

With CoL, every city of course got switched to a courthouse, and as each came online - the effects were noticable. Then the FP; then Currency. By the time I was done, my GNP was 7-8 times that of the world average.
 
Great heavens, Eldar! That is worse than any situation I have encountered yet. I hope you intend to post more details on what you did (and didn't do). How many cities did you have before CoL and Currency, and what were your expenses?
 
I started to take notes but got sick of alt-tab soon enough.

I settled in place and went for poly cause the AIs always go for Buda first. Only someone must have popped poly from a hut, so I switch mid-way to Buda and got it instead. I pop a scout, hunting, and a bunch of gold. Research was then the basic worker techs before BW & IW. After that it was on to Alpha. Then I focused on optics with a brief detour for construction (needed cats).

I was pretty late going to war. I granted him peace for techs (the second time) in 1230 AD. I found another Civ before the 10 turns were up.

I am not sure where all the time went. It felt like dozed off with my finger on the next turn button. :sad:

Denniz_gotm01_1230ad.JPG
 
Long live the chop!
"Here is a status report and screenshot of the empire at 1 AD:
9 cities
58 population
10 workers
10 warriors
2 praetorians
6 barracks
8 granaries
1 aqueduct
3 libraries
1 courthouse
1 temple
Stonehenge
The Oracle
The Pyramids
Church of the Nativity
Hanging Gardens
Score: 1106"

BTW what we have learned from this gotm. The AI will make an initial assault on your iron.
 
Here are my 1AD stats, as someone who doesn't chop down all his forests. I had pretty much only chopped down the silk forests at this point in the game.

4 cities
25 population (2 of them at pop 9)
2 granaries
2 barracks
1 forge
1 obelisk
1 library
1 lighthouse
1 confuscian temple
11 praetorians
2 catapults
3 warriors
4 workers

But I find technology is the more important factor with this start since even if you're going for a military victory you need to research astronomy as soon as possible. I liked Bradleyfeanor's economy section of his post:

2920bc: 12 science (b), 0 gold (g), 0 expenses (e); (Rome grows to size 3) -- really missing those gems about now
2400: 13b, 0g, 2e (Third city founded)
2000: 16b, 0g, 4e (4th city founded)
1400: 15b, 6g, 7e (5th city)
1320: 22b, 8g, 8e (gems finally mined)
675: 26b, 22g, 20e (7th city founded, adding 5 maintenance expense immediately)
550: 34b, 24g, 20e (Church of Nativity)
250: 64b, 25g, 24e (8th city, but 3 libraries now built)
225: 81b, 26g, 24e (Currency discovered. Nice income boost!)
1 ad: 112b, 24g, 31e (9 cities currently)
375: 152b, 38g, 43e (10 cities, have a market in my double-shrine city (+20g without taxes))

2920BC - 10b, 0g, 0e (Rome only size 2 no gems connected yet)
2400: 19b, 0g, 0e
2000: 24b, 0g, 0e
1400: 31b, 0g, 2e
1320: anarchy, revolting to confucianism
675: 49b, 0g, 6e
550: 52b, 0g, 6e
250: 57b, 8g, 7e
225: 57b, 8g, 7e
1AD: 63b, 8g, 9e
375: 95b, 7g, 24e
660: 123b, 7g, 58e

Very interesting comparison there. Notice my slow expansion rate makes my research much faster even while he has 7 cities up until 250BC. Then he surpasses me and beats me handily the rest of the way. Currency was a huge boost for him as well. I'm realizing I definitely should have researched that before going all the way to Optics, although with my fewer cities I would have received a smaller boost. I was relying on war to expand my empire, but probably too much so. I should have founded 2 or 3 other cities while I was still building up my army. Still, my science rate would increase dramatically after this spoiler when I finished settling the entire continent and switched to purely infrastructure building...but that's for the next thread.

edit: Changed the gold numbers from treasury to taxes.
 
Thanks for posting your financial numbers, Shillen! Although I am guessing the numbers you reported for gold was the amount in your treasury. I should have said "gold per turn" and not just "gold". Ooops. Were the numbers you reported while running 100% science or close to it?

And by the way, I don't chop down all my forests! I'm pretty sure I had 4 forests left somewhere in my civ. Heh heh heh wheeze cough hack.

Sorry, carbon monoxide.
 
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