Spoiler for Single-player PBEM - China

[AutomatedTeller]

Rome is off to the east, along the coast there, somewhere.

We are talking about expansion now - I'm hoping he's ok with me plopping a city right where our scouts are, because he's got a lot of land behind and north of there, but considering that he builds settlers faster than I do, he might not be - depending on what his land looks like.

Other thing I'm asking him about is a tech race to oracle, where he gets writing/alphabet and I get to priesthood and build oracle. We'd have to balance out the beakers, of course and he'd have to balance out the hammers (I'm thinking IW and hunting vs. 3 axe men (or maybe a settler and an axe or something))

Can that work?

 

[AutomatedTeller]

One thing I'm realizing is that, while I have nice land, I'm also pretty close to the tundra - though, that may just be the size of the world. I think the tiles I can barely see to the south are tundra, so that's a pain - on the other hand, it's nice military training ground for barbs

It looks like memphus and General_W either finished a tech or grew. Hopefully, memphus isn't just setting up a big quecha rush

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Well, a couple of things

Pop a hut, get a tech!! Hunting, so not too unbalancing, but it makes archers easier to get, plus I can connect that Ivory oh - and I can build a scout

And, it turns out that the General has grown to size 2, none of the others.

My rear seems to be secure - I'm at the end of peninsula.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

having popped hunting, if I don't have horses or copper, I have to go for archery.

Queches are out there, but they aren't as dangerous is BtS as they are earlier, as Huanya isn't aggressive, so they don't start with combat 1, so you can't get a pile of combat 1/cover quechas with a 125% bonus vs. archers, and with protective archers, with a barracks we can start with city garrison II and the extra 1st strike. And memphus isn't going for the utra early barracks and quecha rush.

 

[dutchfire]

Quecha's do start with combat one.
Oh, and I think warriors might even be better against quechas.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

In BtS?

Oh - that's what the Civilopedia says. Hmm. The new info center doesn't reflect that

In new news....

My land got better.


Yes, that's marble. Oracle with marble for an industrious civ...

 

[AutomatedTeller]

An eventful turn!!! We meet Ronnie1's scout north of our land - I'm guessing he's north and east of me, where General_W is North and West. I'm sending Lewis and Clark north, in search of more people.

Down south, my warrior walks the ridge line SW and sees sheep! (so, I now have 2 sheep, 2 gold, pigs, bananas, cows, fish, gems, ivory,corn and marble. No horses and I'm only hoping for one of copper or iron....)

I'm about 90% sure that my 2nd city is going down here and that it will be a strong production city. The question is, which spot?

Option A) Coastal, with marble and sheep in the first 9 and 3 grass hills and 1 tundra hill, plus 3 forests to chop. 3 tundra tiles isn't great, but if we get to size 17... well, this game will have taken longer than I expect!! Not on the river is a problem

Option B) Coastal, with sheep in the first 9, but needs a monument to get the marble, which will add time to the amount of time it takes me to get marble for oracle. Only 3 hills, plus we sit on the forest.

Option C) Not coastal, not on the river, on a hill which is good for defense, has 4 hills (2 grass, 1 tundra, 1 plain) , 5 forests. If C were coastal, I'd pick it, but I think having the city coastal is important.

I'm leaning to Option A...


As to the other sites - the General has agreed that the hill near the jungle is Chinese, so those will be my northern limits.

How many cities should I expect to get out, anyway, before someone attacks me? I really have no idea - in games i've played with monty at high levels, he's usually after me once I have 3 or 4 out. I'd assume that a human would come out slower than that, but with lethal force...

 

[AutomatedTeller]

well. apparently, the number of cities out can be 0. Yikes - poor Viva_Chignon.

I ran some numbers on defending vs. quechas.

Obviously, axemen or spears are best, but I don't know that I'll have copper

As it turns out, while defending a city against quechas, it's best to use warriors on flat ground and archers on hills, unless the oncoming quecha just has no further promotions that combat 1. (this is assuming my protective archers, not regular ones).

It's actually possible that my archers are better on flat ground vs. normal quechas, because of the first strike possibilities, but if the quecha has cover, it's very close to an even fight (archers should still win the combat, but no one brings a 1-1 ratio of quecha to archers....)

 

[dutchfire]

Getting to spears/axes or even chariots quickly is of course very important.

I think you have a good chance to build the oracle, but you might leave it for a while and prioritize other things first. If no-one has built it when you're done with your primary defence and have hooked up the marble, you can start it. Might even try to get machinery from the oracle

Better go SW for another turn to see if there's seafood before deciding on your settlement location. That city won't be a frontline city, so the hill isn't that important.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Machinery would be outstanding.

And yes, I agree about holding off for awhile.

for instance, if I wait, and can get that city up to 6 or 8 SP, I can cut build time to 10 or 8 turns - less if I chop, as well. really, it makes no sense to invest shields in Oracle until I get masonry up and have a decent build - certainly not before being size 2, in the least.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Luck is in, still.

Warrior survived the wolf attack unharmed - another wolf would be nice, give me a promotion.

Looks like site A - moving into the forest reveals that next to the tundra is ice, so not having that is key

oh...

and Lewis and Clark move into a hut and we get MASONRY.

So, that's a scout and 2 techs. Nice

I'll get my worker in 4.

I'm thinking pasture the cow, then the pig - I'd rather have the food bonus for the big, but I won't have the wheel by then, so I'll have them both a turn later (can walk to cow and pasture, getting that in 4 turns (or 5 - don't remember how long a pasture takes), then walk to pig, getting that in 5 (or 6) turns.

Plus the cow has the commerce bonus.

I could go for the wheel and put off finishing BW - my guess is that the two guys I've met are researching it, so I'll get a bonus on it.

Actually, I think one of them has it, guessing the General, since he's ahead.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

well, I dunno about machinery - that would be great, but I need to get pottery and metal casing first, which is about 686 beakers, which is a LOT.

A strategy I've read is to get metal casing with oracle, then rush a forge, and take machinery with the engineer. that would take 20 turns in the city with the oracle, but will only be 60% likely (at best), or 34 in another city.

On the other hand... if I can pull that off, I could make a stack of archers, shut off research and do a mass upgrade.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

That's the Khmer's borders there - they are basically due north of my cap, maybe a little east.

In southern news, I popped that hut near my borders and got experience!!

I think combat 1 and combat 2 the right thing for that warrior - in a game against the AI at this level, I'd do combat 1 and medic 1, but with quechas running around.... And it'll make a nice upgrade to an axe later.

 

[Viva_Chingon]

Rome is off to the east, along the coast there, somewhere.

We are talking about expansion now - I'm hoping he's ok with me plopping a city right where our scouts are, because he's got a lot of land behind and north of there, but considering that he builds settlers faster than I do, he might not be - depending on what his land looks like.

You might consider how much room for expansion Rome has...now that you've found the Khmer to the north of their capitol.

How will that impact Rome's expansion policy?
Does Rome know of their existence/location?
How will this impact your existing diplomacy efforts with Rome?
Have you talked to Ronnie yet?

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Ronnie being right there complicates things, especially as I have ivory (which he will need for his elephants)

I am certain that they know of each other - all of us had scouts right in the same place.

Ronnie and I have exchanged wishes to remain at peace - he says he's on a peninsula, and I'm 90% sure I'm on a peninsula.

This turn, I give my warrior Combat 1 and shock, as a defense against rabid Quecha

I think the site to the north needs to be my priority, now that I know Ronnie is there (and that I may have no resources) - I may need elephants, so I'll need significant defense up there.

More and more, I'm liking the idea of an Oracle bump for Metal Casing and building forges everywhere - I build them fast, so if I can get a religion on the way to priesthood, I can really up the culture defense AND builds walls cheaply


oh - I just realized I mixed up east and west - Rome is WEST of me, not East. Ronnie and I seem to be on the Eastern end of the continent, General_W in the middle, and you guys in the East.

I think the Genera isl beelining IW - Ronnie probably did what I did and researched AH and is working for BW now - I think the General has at least 1 seafood resource and he starts with fishing, so that makes sense.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

BW comes in 3.

Got my worker last turn and he's pasturing the cow, then the pig. I'll build 2 warriors (if I did pig first, I'd grow a turn earlier, but only get 1 warrior) I want 1 to fog bust north, the other south, while my 6 exp warrior checks out the land to the northeast some - see what is between me and ronnie - while Lewis and Clark heads west and north to find Memphus and see how much land the general has.

I've done some sims and it looks like getting to priesthood, building oracle and taking metal casing, then getting an engineer to bulb me machinery and my cho-ko-nu gets me there around turn 100, plus I'll be able to build forges everywhere, which gives me a bit of a production boost.

First city goes north, with a monument (unless I get a religion on my way to priesthood, which I might), 2nd city goes south east - it will be coastal, but not on a river.

Got some gold from the last hut down south, so I did well with huts - scout, 2 techs, experience and gold!!

I'm not sure when I should switch to slavery - part of me thinks to do it right away - what do you guys think?

 

[Theoden]

I'm not sure when I should switch to slavery - part of me thinks to do it right away - what do you guys think?

I'd switch just before the first time I need to whip to avoid unneccesary slave revolts.

 

[Viva_Chingon]

I agree with Theoden...for that reason and my opinion that a turn of stagnation later is preferable over now, while you're trying to make a place for yourself in the world.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

works for me.

It seems like I don't have to worry about memphus and quechas anytime soon - General_W has mentioned that he's met memphus and that they are close to each other!! But I think the General is power researching IW and 1 legionnary pretty much makes him safe... from anyone!!

My guess is that this is a somewhat U shaped world, and General_W is at the top of the U.

Also... in my wanderings, I found Marble at the top of the world - which is excellent, cause it very likely means that memphus has none, so I don't see him beating me to Oracle. That's a long time from now, of course - of more immediate concern is getting a city up north to get the gems, ivory, banana and gold before Ronnie does - I think we'll end up with bordering cities there, across the jungle, and unless he has a source of ivory, my city is going to be a target for him so he can build his elephants.

 

[azzaman333]

I always like switching the turn after building my first worker/settler.