*Spoiler1* Gotm18-Celts - Full World Map

For me, a pangaea map combined with the Keltoi's powerful UU meant going for a domination win, with a personal goal of doing so before nationalism. My approach would be bare-bones, pretty much building only barracks and cheap temples for culture-firming. Taking this sort of flyer requires doing as much as possible to slow down research. Given the number of civs in relatively close proximity, I determined to fight all my wars in alliances.

I founded Carthage on the starting spot, and sent three warriors north, west, and south. This led me to build two early cities near the floodplains, and two others near the gems and iron. I made a strategic decision to hold off on early warfare, and focused on growth while waiting for the Age of the Swordsman. This means I didn't take out Rome early like many others did, which may have been a mistake.

Like everyone else, I quickly made contact with all the civs, and managed to sell several communications as late as 1650BC. (The excepion was China, which was eliminated in 2670BC.) I was ready to research polytheism by 2110BC, but the tech pace in my game led me to quit researching and instead save gold for tech and warrior upgrades. By 1000BC, I had six cities, and two settlers en route to founding two others. At this point, the western civs were clearly more advanced than the eastern ones.

The Middle Ages began in 550BC in Athens, site of the Pyramids. In 370BC the Greeks failed to extort the Keltoi and declared war. The Keltoi were first in population and a cultural leader; nevertheless, I immediately allied with the Iroquois for 60g and 14gpt, then bought and traded polytheism. Rome and Egypt allied with Greece against the Iroquois. One hundred years later, Egypt and France piled on the Iroquois, and I prudently allied with them against far-off Egypt for Republic.

In 210BC, the Keltoi became a republic (no monarchy yet) and met the enemy for the first time with the Swordsmen, starting a GA in 190BC. This led Carthage to ally with Greece against the Keltoi; irrelevant England joined in against us soon after. While my swordsmen made incremental progress against the Greeks, I took the Carthaginian horse and iron resources, and Utica fell in 10AD. I made peace with Egypt as soon as their army arrived in 190AD, giving them 100g, and in 300AD I allied with them against the tragic Iroquois in exchange for monarchy. (My alliance with the Iroquois was long over.)

The Keltoi became a monarchy one turn later. Our first GL came late, in 390AD, and was earmarked for a FP. Knossos and its incense fell, and Carthage had suffered enough losses that it sued for peace, along with England, in 420AD. Among my gains were lots of gold, one more Carthaginian city, and the entry-level trio of monotheism, feudalism and engineering.

At this point, the real power was in the west, where France, Japan, the Aztecs and to a lesser degree Egypt, were all vibrant republics. The Iroquois were on their last legs, England only had two cities on the mainland, and Carthage had been reduced to five cities. To the east, only Rome had any strength. Expansion had been slow, because our first war was against two strong civs with "3" defenders. But now the Swordsmen were ready to focus on Greece, whose power had been checked, build the FP in Knossos, and pick up the spoils of Salamanca.
 
Well, I'm still alive and even leading the board in my world (370AD).
sp_odd_world_rank_370AD.JPG

I tried spacing my cities close to make a lot of 'm quickly. Like the others mentioned there was no space that cried out settler-factory, so my first two cities shared duties. I failed to even build one wonder in this game, but I fought two wars with Rome and will elimate them in the third.

I led the tech race for a while, but am at a par now. The best thing that happened were *two* culture flipped cities, one from neoCarthago and one from Rome during the second war.

Here's a minimap.
minimap_370AD.JPG


I'm having a difficult time with the barbs as the Romans and I tried and failed to get foothold on the peninsula.

sp_odd_Hard_time_barbs.JPG
 
Originally posted by Zwingli
Borrowing a page from Charis, I'm trying to conquer the world with a limited number of cities. On a large map without (as it turns out) close sea access, it might be problematic to attempt a one city challenge conquest, so I planned to make my second city coastal.

2 cities ? That might be stretching it. Charis used 5, which might be doable here as it's monarch level except for the insane amount of territory you have to cover. 2 is suicide.
That being said though, best of luck to you mr. Quijote ! :D
 
Well, I don't have the whole map yet, but I made some bad judgement calls and lost in 340AD with 300 pts.

Stole some workers from Carthage, which resulted in the whole world turning against me. Got 2 great leaders by the end, but had nothing to do with 'em except build empty armies.

I just don't play well on a crowded map.

I have started over, and, playing more peacefully, am doing a bit better. I may continue to visit the threads and post concerning my current game, but I will be submitting my loss tonight.

Greg
 
Well, this is my first Monarch game, and after losing in GOTM 17 on Regent level, I had nothing to lose but to go for it.

The Good and Bad:
- I started an early war against Rome (they started it !!) and beat them to pieces. They only had one city left which was founded on the barb Pennisula, so I decided to leave them there and fight it out.

- I took and kept all their Roman cites (~10 or so), except for Rome, since it was size 12 and I didn't want it to flip, as I wanted to build my FP there, so I razed it to the ground. Unfortunatley it had the Great Library. I read about this wonder and it said, it gives 2 techs to the founders that built it and since I didn't build it, I burned it to the ground, only to discover that I probably should have kept it. That is probably one reason why I am behind everyone in tech.

- Oh well, I continued to expand my territory, doing fairly well, but during the Roman fight, my cites needed some serious development. I soon had 30 workers, but I had some serious finanical troubles. I had 52 gold, with -18 per turn, with my slider bar maxed at 10 for money :eek: That's what I get for drinking that session.

- Anyway, I slept on it and fixed it the next day, by micromanaging my cites and building some more cities since in Monarchy I got 4 units free per city.

- As far as resources, I finally was able to hook up the southern iron, just as I went into Monarchy, which then allowed me to build some fancy swordsman and fight the Romans.

- I'm currently in 1st on the graphs, but I am behind everyone in tech :( Guess I should've kept the GL.

- The barbs never bothered me. I blocked them with some spearman in the mountains and they never landed in my terroritory.

- I have not been able to beat the AI to any Wonder, so currently I am Wonderless, and can't even build them as I am so behind in tech.

- I feel another loss coming, just like in GOTM17, they build the UN, voted me out :mad:

- Now I plan to just KILL !!!!! Since no one will trade with me, at least not anything good or at a decent price. Maybe I expect better bargains.

- But most importantly, I am having fun, and looking forward to each session when I can play.

- Last time I looked, I had 4 Stacks of 15-20 units each outside 4 Carthage border cities and our ROP just ended. I do have MPPs with Greece and Iroquis, so the wars are about to begin.

- Just a note, I have not seen a single war between any of the other civs. They are just hanging out, cranking away on the techs as a team, leaving me in the dust.
 
Originally posted by el_kalkylus

:eek: That was a daring move declaring war so early. What would the consequences had been if you lost you warrior instead? Would everyone find out later what you did that lowered your reputation?

All war is a risk but I had 3 warriors "around" if anything went wrong and I already took 3 slaves, so if I lost all 3 warriors I still would be ahead and only a little bit of exploration would suffer. If I completely failed Hannibal would have long forgotten it before our borders met. His spot was good for growth so he may have sent a retailitory force, but I'm not too concerned about early wars unless its the Aztecs. Thinking back it could have backfired since their UU is 2/3, but it costs a lot.

I would have tried the same with the iroquois but like I said they already had two cities so it would have been pointless, plus their capital wasn't on really good land. (My main goal was basically to knock them out of the game so I would have more room to grow.)
My warriors moved directly west and south, if I would have went a little southeast I may have met the Romans and may have been able to take out them as well. Or southwest and the greeks. That would have been nice since I took heavy losses later against their hoplites.

I'm not sure about the rep, either they know about it or don't. I tried really hard this game to not break any turn deals, and until I finally did the civs that weren't at war were on good terms. I recently acquired the great library so will not be needing a good portion of the civs for a few hundred years, so have broken my first turn-based peace treaty to declare war. As for rep, since early contact I have been renegioating peace treaties every 20 turns with just about everyone on the map, and getting gold and maps, so I'm sure many of them don't like me. However, that shouldn't matter; in score alone I am currently double the nearest civ and have been since at least 200 AD.

Here is a minimap collage, the red dots are my palace and forgotten palace.
I built the FP in a greek city with a leader, and the only wonder I built so far was Sun Tzu's, also with a leader. I just got another leader and built an army with it, I plan to put a few knights in it which I just completed researching. And as far as I know no one else has knights yet. I plan to start my conquest west now with knights and am at war with china yet again (I think I started it this time.)
Most of the civs are building wonders, normally I would try to build sistines but I haven't got a single cathedral so its not high on my list. I do have 6 luxuries and my production cities have market places so I don't need the maintenance cost. I have been prebuilding horses to upgrade for a few years for this push west and I have at least 2000g and ~200gpt. (with tech at 100% its about -11gpt)

I got pyramids in Rome. {we want to avoid discussing things beyond the very first row or techs in the middle ages - cracker}

As you can see in the map England and Rome both have a city on the barb islands, which means they will for the foreseeable future not have any gold. ;) I'm currently building some galleys and plan to attack england and take their island, leaving them with that one barb city. For conquest I'll eventually have to go up and there and take those cities.

Another thing of note, both greece and iroquois have a city nested in china right next to each other. That was the old home of the Aztec city that was raised. So I can't knock either of them out of the game until I penetrate china. The final iroquois city near my borders I took out the next turn but used 600AD for simplicity.
 

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Zwingli sayz:
>Greece has been able to hold out so far, but their Golden Age >has now ended

Is there any way to tell when other civs are in golden age? How?
 
Just noticed an error in my map on 1000BC, the capital is off by one to the west. ;)
 
Originally posted by WoundedKnight
Zwingli sayz:
>Greece has been able to hold out so far, but their Golden Age >has now ended

Is there any way to tell when other civs are in golden age? How?

Only from wonder completion, and fighting them yourself. If you get a message the AIs are fighting someone at the time when their UU is around, you can bet they will get a GA.
Come to think of it, you could investigate one of their cities to find out (while at peace).

If the amount of units they send at you or the speed with which they produce wonders suddenly turns up, you can also bet that they're in a GA.

In my own game, I triggered GAs for the Greeks, the Carthaginians and the French - not that that helped them much ...
 
>Expansion had been slow, because our first war was against >two strong civs with "3" defenders

This was one of the main reasons that dictated my early initial wars with Carthage and Rome, rather than Greece. The Greek hoplite is very early, is cheap, and is an excellent defender. Romans don't get the legionaire until a little later, so my goal was to scuttle their civilization before they could start cranking out legionaries as delay would make this task significantly more costly.
 
>since early contact I have been renegioating peace treaties >every 20 turns with just about everyone on the map, and >getting gold and maps

How do you renegotiate peace? I'm only rarely asked. Do I need to click "always renegotiate deals" under preferences, or is it something else?
 
@ WoundedKnight

Renegotiating peace, or any other 20 turn deal may be done by proposing a new deal to the AI at the diplomatic table, then clicking the "Active" button on the bottom of the deal screen. The peace treaty and any other ongoing (active) deals will appear, and one may renegotiate any expired deals by clicking on the appropriate word (in this case "Peace").
 
Wounded Knight:

Renegotiating a peace treaty puts you in a state of war during the negotiations. If you cannot reach agreement, you will be at war.

Zwingli:

When are you going to start eliminating civs?

Smirk:

You conquered half the map with swordsmen (or less)? Do you target your next opponent based on level of threat - say, France because of the upcoming musketeers, or China with its riders?
 
When are you going to start eliminating civs?
Within the scope of these spoilers (up to around 350 AD) I have been building lots of infrastructure and wonders in my two cities, but now I can devote more production to Euro-swordsmen. I only need enough troops to tip the battle in favor of my allies to eliminate a given civ. Of course, after eliminating one civ in a limited city challenge, the remaining civs will become larger and more powerful as they fill in the open land.

Let's just say that I may yet have to deal with large and powerful civs in the upcoming spoiler threads. ;)
 
Originally posted by Txurce
Smirk:
You conquered half the map with swordsmen (or less)? Do you target your next opponent based on level of threat - say, France because of the upcoming musketeers, or China with its riders? [/B]

Yep, I started to prebuild horses recently to eventually upgrade. As a side note, I now firmly believe that the Celt UU is too costly. Only a couple of my cities can actually produce these in any resonable time, 3-5 turns. But I have a few nearby cities with less production disconnected so I've been building and upgrading warriors the entire time. Once my worthless cities expand borders, I've been setting them to wealth and selling the temple.

My heaviest losses were against the hoplites, and a rare superdefender, one of Rome's spearman killed 6 of my UU one after another (not a hill or river city either). But I am building and upgrading them at a comparable rate. On the other hand I wiped out the iroquois with very few if any losses, Sun Tzu's helped here. I expect more pikemen in the coming wars, in addition to other things which can't be discussed in this thread.
The point here however is that you can handle great losses as long as you can replace them and have a good road network, since the UU movement is increased. On average it has taken 3-4 turns for a unit to move to the front lines and this is very good for ancient warfare.
The only problem with heavy losses is you don't get many leaders.

I've done other tricks to leverage my UU, the biggest is to slow down tech development. And deny resources, cutting off horses and iron was the first thing I've done in each war. Also restrict trade, on a large land mass this is doable just destroy roads that connect other civs, this is much easier than trying to get trade embargos.


Edit

Forgot the second part, my target choices have been mostly based on geography. Greece would have been a good target *before* they got hoplites, but thats a short window. So unless I wanted to wait for a trump I had to face them, might as well face them as soon as I can so they are less developed. I definately wanted to take out rome before they built up, and had to cut off their iron supply before hand. I don't recall how many if any Legions I saw, and if I saw any they were wiped out quickly by overwhelming numbers. Rome was far too close to stand up to the barrage for long.

Iroquois isn't such a threat since their horseman only has a defense of 1, he can kill a few swords but I can get him as good or better. Of course if iroquois warmongered early like the Aztecs they would be a threat. The way the map was setup there was very little choice for targets, to be honest. My next target is China by default, my conquest system requires a captured city near the front lines to gain the benefit of Sun Tzu's so a ROP to reach another civ is not as useful. Civs with defensive UUs tend to play defensively, so I don't need to worry about France and may not ever attack them if I can get domination.
So in a way yes, my order was Greece, Rome then the Iroquios. China is my new default "only option". But after them I can take out Aztecs, Egypt or Japan, my natural first choice would be Japan. Its going to get very dangerous in the middle ages in the west, but thats a story for another thread.
 
Originally posted by scubagtr
- I took and kept all their Roman cites (~10 or so), except for Rome, since it was size 12 and I didn't want it to flip, as I wanted to build my FP there, so I razed it to the ground. Unfortunatley it had the Great Library. I read about this wonder and it said, it gives 2 techs to the founders that built it and since I didn't build it, I burned it to the ground, only to discover that I probably should have kept it. That is probably one reason why I am behind everyone in tech.

:sad: Oops! I think you have mistaken the Theory of Evolution for the Great Library. TOE gives the builder 2 free techs, but the GL gives the holder all techs that are known by 2 other civs he knows. So as long as you have contact with every civ, you can just sit back and get the techs leading up to Education (when the GL expires) for free. :D
 
It amazes me how different my game looks compared to most of the others here :)

I decided, before the game started, to go for a diplomatic win and not fight wars unless declared on or else if someone wanted an ally against one of the big bullies. Figured since I may meet them again in a vote for world leader 3K years later, I wouldn't loose any votes by any such civs turning sour on me.
I wanted diplomatic win for three reasons: 1) I'm not experienced in modern warfare so I'd prob be beaten to a pulp against AI aircraft and rocketry. 2) I've done rather well on diplomacy lately, prob b/c I don't like early warfare much either :p 3) In the pregame discussion it looked like most ppl wanted to go for conquest, domination or cultural wins. So I was interested in seeing if diplomacy would work on a map like this.

This made early settler expansion a huge issue so I trained only two warriors and then prebuilt granary for settler. I followed that strat with a few more towns with the exception that they built temple then worker followed by granary and settlers. I didn't feel like the ICS would be the best bet here since I needed to get my hands on as much territory as possible. I focused early expansion S and W since Caesar opted for settling on the E coast. I took a calculated gamble to save settling N for last because I very early knew the whereabouts of all civs except Egypt and there were nice room for them down S. I also attributed the coming and going of Iroquois and Roman warriors to barb trouble to the N and I didn't want to get involved.

Early exploration showed Rome and then sea to the E, S of Rome were the Iroquois and I was lucky to meet with the English very early. My other explorer/warrior went S first to Greece, then turned W towards France and eventually Japan.
I had a rather good map at an early stage and settled on a few very strategic places: way down S near Salamanca to harvest wine, SW near Athens to get my hands on a source of Dyes, E near roman territory to gather horses and S close to the Iroquois/Greek border to secure iron.

Wonders were a low priority, the first I tried to get being Hanging Gardens with the Chinese building the pyramids a long time before that (England beat me to the HG by 3 turns and I didn't have a backup so I wasted 150 shields on a cathedral).

Warriors and 10% sci towards monarchy enabled me to upgrade around 15 blitz-swordies when I finally got to monarchy. I had then been at war with Japan for ages after he demanded a tech from me and invaded with 3 (prob exploring) warriors (which was a laugh of course) when he didn't get his evil ways :satan: :hammer: I paid for peace (around 40 gcs I think) because I suddenly had better things to do...

The Chinese were loosing badly to the Aztecs and although the homelands of the Aztecs where full of desert and mountains/hills, they DID have just about all the luxuries I needed. I decided it was now or never if I wanted to conquer more lands for my civ without getting too bad a rep. So just before I got monarchy I ROP'ed with Greece and allied/ROP'ed with the Chinese against the Aztecs. I also built settlers with spear escorts to fill in the blanks.

The war against the Aztecs was a swift one with constant upgrades and few losses, but no GL's until the Aztecs were down to four 1-size cities with the Chinese moving swords all over the place. When I finally got Vercingetorix I promptly built FP in Tecnothlitlan and started making a few settlers. I made peace with the Aztecs for three of their last four cities and left the chinese to take the blame for destroying the Aztecs on the next turn.

I missed out on the heap of spices in Azteca, close to China. Greece was just too quick there... But the Chinese had 3 culture-1 cities lying around their source of spice so I moved there instead. In fact, I found it rather strange that the AI didn't settle on resources more than they did.

The rest of the Aztec homelands now belong to me. Pity they couldn't capture Beijing (the pyramids) before I got there. I was kinda relying on that :D

I now control 7 luxuries and I'm hoping that Rome or Carthage will declare :) (they're really weak so not likely, but they control the ivory I want). I'm close to a monopoly on gems and silks. I've also got lots of furs and dyes. I've got a lead in culture on all civs and 2 Carthage and 1 Roman city have flipped my way, the last being particularly nice, size-6. I'm at tech parity, not researching but paying very low gpt's to keep up.
 
I've done other tricks to leverage my UU, the biggest is to slow down tech development. And deny resources, cutting off horses and iron was the first thing I've done in each war.

This actually worked for you? This was my biggest complaint with the map. The strategic resources were far too common. Every civ had 3-4 sources of both iron and horses. It was easier to just take all their cities than to try to pillage all of their strategic resources. I usually use this strategy myself, but it just wouldn't work on this map. Reason I didn't like it is because I think it takes a lot of the strategy out of warfare.
 
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I've done other tricks to leverage my UU, the biggest is to slow down tech development. And deny resources, cutting off horses and iron was the first thing I've done in each war.
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This actually worked for you? This was my biggest complaint with the map. The strategic resources were far too common. Every civ had 3-4 sources of both iron and horses. It was easier to just take all their cities than to try to pillage all of their strategic resources. I usually use this strategy myself, but it just wouldn't work on this map. Reason I didn't like it is because I think it takes a lot of the strategy out of warfare.

I was able to slow down tech development throughout the game, but resource denial proved more difficult. In the ancient era, I did strip Carthage of horses and iron, because they only had one source for each, and both were near my borders. Afterward, it was mainly a lost cause. On the other hand, the plentiful resources made all of the civs tougher to take than usual, which made the game more fun overall.
 
In my war with Carthage, I signed a ROP with them, built up my military and then placed a unit on each of their horses, irons and luxeries (~15 locations). Then when the ROP ended, I pillaged the roads under those 15 spots and attacked 4 cities simultainously. His empire is now seriously hampered as my armies continue to roll.;)
 
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