*Spoiler1* Gotm18-Celts - Full World Map

[WoundedKnight]

That's really an impressive map, Moonsinger, and a good plan. You've managed to expand quite rapidly. Building the FP where you are and then moving the palace could turn out to be a great move. As others have said, there's not a lot of bonus land around the original palace city. Once I switched to a production focus, the original capital was only my 5th or 6th most productive city. Moving the palace to some prime terrain deep in enemy territory in a totally corrupt area could be very smart. Especially if you could put it somewhere that you could potentially build major productivity improvements like, say, an iron works. I built my FP real early and didn't have that option, but that's definitely something to think about if your FP or palace relocation happens a little later down the tech tree. Guess we'll have to wait and see where the coal is

 

[Shillen]

One thing I would tell you is that if you want a GL for something like the Pyramids, you need to go to war very early. Going to war for the first time in 50 BC after the AI has already built the pyramids is not going to be a productive strategy for you, as the pyramids tower above any of the middle-age wonders in increasing your civilization's productivity.

I was actually hoping for a great leader for my FP. I attempted to build the Pyramids by hand but the AI got them in 690 BC. I guess I was just unlucky because both Moonsinger and Hurricane built them by hand later than that date.

 

[Smirk]

Did the QSC this month and some of the highlights are below.

Tech rates were pretty slow, even with me trading anything I happened to research. I did some initial research to get pottery and a few other important beginning techs, Iron working for one. But then stopped after that, there was nothing else I needed that I could research soon. I planned to build lots of units and spent less time on infrastructure. I hoped to get Monarcy or Republic before my golden age, but I planned to delay and get that from AIs.
I placed my cities without figuring in culture growth, so most had from 9-12 tiles available depending on what extra tiles were opened due to vicinity of other borders.

I founded on the start, and once I saw that fish I wish I would have stuck with my original thoughts that I posted in the pregame thread (ie move to the hill or nw for defensive reasons) I got a granary in the capital early so growth was ok without the fish.

On this difficulty I can often times take out a civ really early, upon first contact so I sent warriors west and south, two each with some stragglers to follow. I found carthage first, with some pict warriors hanging around, I guess he popped a hut? He didn't have Bronze so there was no chance he was building his 2/3 UU. Once I was ready, (waited to see what the pict would do) I traded him Warrior Code and Burial for two of his techs and then took his only city.
During this I met the Iroquois which I also hoped to conquer, but after a short glance and some guesswork it appeared it wasn't to be, he had two cities already. I wouldn't find this out until a little later but he must have found a hut city because at the other end of the coast (to the west) he had a completely worthless city with all desert lands and some coast. Funny thing is I noticed a few workers building a road to connect this city early. I figure he lost tons of early development from the waste of connecting that city.


Highlights
...
3000 BC
warrior attacks Carthage kills warrior still 3/3
2950 BC
pict moves towards warrior
reinforcements arrive warrior defends in mountains
2800 BC
pict near Cartage left without attacking anyone
warrior attacks Cartage kills warrior now 4/4
2750 BC
warrior attacks and takes Carthage, Hannibal has been destroyed
...
2710 BC
Entremont finished granary now building worker
...
2270 BC
founded Alesia building barracks
...
1000 BC
founded Syrplebonum building barracks


After that initial war the window of oppurtunity closes quickly so I began a warrior and gold build up to hopefully wait for monarcy and then golden age to upgrade. What actually happened was that I got golden age in despotism and then couldn't get anything but republic, so I switched to that during my golden age. It wasn't as productive for gold since I had such a large military and very little overall improvement coverage, all cities average, none all that great. My workers tend to expand out improving efficiently, however then the core cities are left with only 3-4 improvements that were built initially. I need to maybe create two waves of workers, or just more in general. (Although I have 40 or more at least, maybe half of them are slaves.)

I gave some serious thought to jumping my palace to Carthage and saved the game on that turn with the idea of testing this after I am done and compare the early game. At any rate Carthage is way better than my capital, 4 wines, rivers...

I'm not sure what I will be doing to win as yet, domination was my original thoughts but there is a lot of land to cover. I've got no navy and don't even think I have a coastal city yet, so conquest wouldn't be easy either.

I had wine hooked up before I got the closeby gems lux, I also got furs (far north) settled, but not yet hooked up. It looks like I'll have no problem with happiness later, plus Ivory and Dyes are close both south and west towards the French.
The Aztecs have been at war off and on with France since pretty early. As well as the Chinese which I joined since I would run into them after the Greeks, I would rather not see any Riders. But the Aztecs are losing and while they stunted the growth of France, they lost a city to the Chinese, it was razed.

I'm currently in the process of backfilling my territory, while avoiding the temptation of picking the ripe fruit that continues to dance around my borders (ie settler stacks). I've already done this a little bit and have lots of slaves, but all my neighbors to the south hate me. My plan was to conquer Greece, Rome then the Iroquois. By the time I reach the Iroquois I should have Knights. I may divert and try to fight Rome and China at the same time, but only if I can get help from other civs. I'm sure the Aztecs will join me versus China, but they will need an infusion of cash or something to help them develop.

Some screens to come.

 

[Moonsinger]

Have any of you noticed that Cracker has a surprise for us in France? Cracker, is it ok for us to talk about that?

Anyway, have anyone go to war the France yet? If you do, you will know what I'm talking about. I hope the English doesn't have any dragon guarding their castle because that would scare off my knights.

 

[Shillen]

edit: Belongs in next spoiler thread.

 

[cracker]

Originally posted by Moonsinger
Have any of you noticed that Cracker has a surprise for us in France? Cracker, is it ok for us to talk about that?

The key thing will be for you and Shillen to evaluate if this information belongs in the discussion of your game events that come from prior to the early onset of the Medieval age.

If you encountered these events later and then are extrapolating them backwords then you would be sharing advance infomation that you potentailly did not have when you entered into the Medieval age and that would not necessarily be the right move.

Shillen, you comment in particular may be hinting at exceeding the limits of this spoiler thread. It can be cool to discover the surprises but there is no value in being the first person to spill the beans.

Good luck to all of you in your game.

cracker

 

[Chimera]

my game seems to be about the norm, rome taken out by 250 AD, only weird thing was that the iroquis must have got a settler from a hut, they founded oil springs on the east coast, about 15 tiles from my capitol. Got lucky on my capitol, got the fish by moving nw, with a granary i was cranking out the settlers another weird thing was enlands power, they had the oracle and hanging gardens along with both ancient water wonders. oh and the fact that the pyramids was built in 600 bc by the aztecs. at this point i'm only behind by a tech but everyone is annoyed, they heard about me and rome, to bad for them maybe my game wasn't to normal

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by cracker
The key thing will be for you and Shillen to evaluate if this information belongs in the discussion of your game events that come from prior to the early onset of the Medieval age.

Thanks for the advise. I will take the safe route and wait until the next spoiler thread for that.

FYI: My onset of the Medieval age last forever. Since I got the Great Library, I was waiting for them to search something, but the AIs weren't in any hurry to research anything new.

 

[el_kalkylus]

2800 BC
pict near Cartage left without attacking anyone
warrior attacks Cartage kills warrior now 4/4
2750 BC
warrior attacks and takes Carthage, Hannibal has been destroyed

That was a daring move declaring war so early. What would the consequences had been if you lost you warrior instead? Would everyone find out later what you did that lowered your reputation?

 

[WoundedKnight]

I fought them both (French + Aztecs), and am not sure what either of you are talking about. Maybe I just wasn't paying attention.

 

[TC3]

I'm a newcomer to the GOTM forum, but I've been lurking and playing along with you guys for the past 4 games. I just wanted to thank Cracker and the rest of the staff for providing us with so much fun. The GOTM is the only reason I still play CivIII.

I've finished this one in about 3 sittings, so the details are kind of a blur right now. I don't take notes, but I'll probably start doing that in the next game.

Before I loaded the 4000 BC save I had decided to go for conquest. Since I don't have PTW yet I was anxious to try out the Celtic UU. Suffice it to say that this was a big mistake.

By the time I had built a decent force of European Swordsmen I had sacrificed too much in the tech race and the last few bits of territory expansion. To recover I felt I'd need to take out 2 or 3 civs in a short timeframe. I was able to fight through Rome and Carthage, but I stalled while taking out the Greeks. After suing for peace nobody wanted to give me techs, and I didn't have enough gold to sweeten the deal. I've never understood why some civs will refuse to cough up techs when they are down to one city, but I guess sometimes they decide that they don't want to help you win...either that or I was so far behind in Tech that they didn't see me as being the threat that I really was.

In retrospect I could have built a vast hoard of archers and accomplished the same things about 30 turns earlier, and still kept tech parity.

No great leaders even with a very long period of ancient era warfare. My special swordsmen didn't seem so special. They were about 50/50 against regular swordsmen. Greek Hoplites still gave them fits too.

I build the Pyramids by hand in Entremont. Lost out on the Great Library by 3 turns. Japan built it, so I had no hope of taking it over.

I built my FP by hand in one of Rome's cities. This turned out to be a huge mistake looking back on it, but that is a subject for another day...

Our starting area was not exactly the best land on the map (but it certainly could have been worse - I think France got taken out really early in my game because they had a bunch of tundra cities).

Overall it was a very enjoyable game, mostly due to me getting so far behind and having to play catch-up. I was about 4 techs behind when I reached the middle ages and way down on the score list. Thankfully that was easily rectified.

 

[RufRydyr]

1of4
You know how there is a way you want something to look in your mind and then there's the way it comes out? And then the way it comes out after hours of trying to get it closer to what's in your mind? You website makers probably know what I'm talking about. Well anyway, here's my QSC18. It didn't come out as good as I wanted. Next time will be better or I'll be using that new utility!

 

[RufRydyr]

2of4

 

[RufRydyr]

3of4

 

[RufRydyr]

4of4

 

[RufRydyr]

@Moonsinger:
I liked your minimaps so much I decided to whip some up as close to your years as I had, then decided to throw a couple more in the showed exploration. I've seen them from others too and they really tell the story. My territory is way behind yours! But I've been building infratucture like never before. These cheap temples and harbors are great. I love the 1 turn government switch. I've been switching to Monarchy when war wariness sets in and then back to Republic (during the scope of this thread).

Somebody asked you (Moosinger) why you built your FP beside the Palace. As discussed in the threads for the previous GOTM, you can use a Great Leader to jump the Palace to newly conquered territory and the new capital won't culture flip, plus you get to take advantage of the production there. I wound up hand building my FP about 10 tiles from the Capital because I was prebuilding for a Wonder and one never became available. I still haven't moved the capital because production is so good in that area and for the first time I've been building lots of courthouses.

BTW, I looked at France but haven't yet figured out what is there.

 

[mad-bax]

I settled on the spot. Sent 3 warriors out exploring and had contact with 9 civs by 1000BC.

There was no obvoius site for a settler factory, so I built two cities with granaries to alternate between settlers and units and cranked additional settlers from pop 3 cities to compensate.

I prebuilt the Great Library with pyramids and was surprised when I actually competed the pyramids brick by brick. At this point only the Oracle was available for cascade so most of the other Civs would have dumped large quantities of shields. Then prebuilt hanging gardens but was beaten by one turn by Iroquois. Had nothing to cascade to so I bought construction for WM +10g and got great wall, losing a bucketfull of shields.

All the surrounding Civs had ancient era UU's. The Romans were weakest so I killed them first b4 they hooked up iron. They also had horses and two lux. Iroquois had hanging gardens in capital (size 10) so I used up my Gallic swordsmen taking them out b4 chivalry.

At this point I had 3 lux, 3 iron, and horses.

Will probably build FP in Salamanca, take out the Greeks and Carthags with knights, double my city build density and go for a 100K win. My only difficulty with this is that the Aztecs are culturally strong and geographically difficult to get to.

I'm actually finding the going tough in this game.

 

[Shillen]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2800 BC
pict near Cartage left without attacking anyone
warrior attacks Cartage kills warrior now 4/4
2750 BC
warrior attacks and takes Carthage, Hannibal has been destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


That was a daring move declaring war so early. What would the consequences had been if you lost you warrior instead? Would everyone find out later what you did that lowered your reputation?

Yes very risky business indeed. I've ruined entire games by taking that very risk. That's why I don't do that in GOTM. But I admit I have done it in tournament games with success.

 

[Tnerual]

Here is a short account of how I went through the Ancient Times:

• Started with moving the Worker North-East, on the hills. It did not spot anything special, so founded my first city at the starting spot.
• Built two or three Warriors and one Archer and sent them on exploration. Lost one Warrior stupidly attacking one of the volcanoes to the North.
• Researched Pottery first, but finaly traded it with the Iroquois. Did a few more technology trades in the beginning, and got hold on Iron Working fast enough. After that, no one seemed to be willing to do more trade for a long time... I guess I did not have enough to offer.
• After the Warriors, I first built a Granary (at least, that's what I remember: I might have built a Settler before that), then a Settler in the capital. After that alternated Settler with something else (Temple and Barracks).
• Once I got several cities, and linked the Iron to the South (near the border with the Iroquois), I switched to produce European Swordsman, with a few more Settlers in between (the cities were not growing fast enough anyway).

Seeing that Carthage had built the Pyramids, I decided to make it my first target. I declared war, sent my 8-10 European Swordsmen West, and easily secured control over Carthage...

I then quickly made peace and got most of the tech I was missing to bring me on par with the rest of the world...

I entered the Medieval Age soon after...

A note about Barbarians: Up to that point, they did not bother me at all, excepted for the fact that most AI countries kept sending troops North, through my territory, to deal with them... I will later on suffer a little bit from a massive uprising, but without much consequence: all those Horsemen kept pillaging the same city, newly build: they destroyed two speamen, the walls and the work on the temple , and then kept pillaging my empty treasury (I traded all my gold for technology just before).

 

[Zwingli]

Borrowing a page from Charis, I'm trying to conquer the world with a limited number of cities. On a large map without (as it turns out) close sea access, it might be problematic to attempt a one city challenge conquest, so I planned to make my second city coastal. After exploring a bit, a warrior revealed a decent place to put Alesia, my second and final city.

Abbreviated Timeline (dates are approximate)

4000 BC - Founded Entremont on the Start Location.

2500 BC - Founded Alesia. New gold per turn allowed a tech brokering oppertunity which netted Mysticism, Masonry, the Wheel, and IronWorking for little actual cost.

1825 BC - War with Carthage due to a refused demand. The war results in the destruction of Utica, and Carthage pays Mathmatics and Philosophy for peace.

950 BC - War with China due to a refused demand. An exploring warrior is able to pilliage some tiles and (luckily) defeat two Chinese swordsmen, and I drag Japan, France, and Egypt into the war with all of my available income (expecting the Great Library). The allies desert me, and I am forced to pay China 6 gpt for peace.

750 BC - Complete the Great Library in Entremont.

650 BC - War with Azteca due to a refused demand. A nearby exploring warrior is unable to do any damage, but I drag France and Japan into the war by alliance. I am unable to spare any forces to help against Azteca, so after 20 turns I pay the Aztecs 4 gpt for peace. France continues to bring in additional allies in the years to come, but Azteca holds its ground.

370 BC - Complete the Colossus in Alesia.

10 AD - War with Greece when I demand they move trespassers. The war continues past 350 AD which is the end of the applicable spoiler period, and I bring in Rome, Carthage, and the Iroquois into the war at various points. Greece has been able to hold out so far, but their Golden Age has now ended and I have a small force of Euro-Swordmen (Gallics) ready to assist Rome and Carthage in the elimination of the sole scientific civ.

The alliances are getting more and more expensive as my relative power rating shrinks, and the Great Library will soon expire. Nonetheless, it is too late to go for a 20k cultural victory, so it is conqust or bust!