*Spoiler1* Gotm19-Ottomans - Green-Brown-Red

[Sirp]

I saw a barb hut down there in 2270BC, and it had a stream of barbarians coming out of it..might have been around for a while, but I'm not sure.

The Celts didn't develop *that* slowly in my game, slower than average for Emperor, certainly, but not completely pathetic.

-Sirp.

 

[Sirp]

Gee it strikes me that *lots* of people seemed to be able to capture the Pyramids from the Celts. While I can appreciate that gifting them masonry could have helped them get it, it still seems like they managed to build them awfully often, especially considering what a weak civilization they were. I wonder why that was?

Makes me think that investing so much effort into building them myself might have put me at a disadvantage. Of course I did expand pretty rapidly after getting them.

On settling on plains vs grassland, I seem to remember that DaveMcW posted something a while ago saying that he had investigated the shields produced on the city tile, and had found that when you get above size 6, it's advantageous for the tile the city is founded on to produce shields. So, that's a factor to consider when deciding between settling on plains and grassland.

-Sirp.

 

[Sirp]

@Ribannah: We both built the Pyramids in the same year, 1050BC. I also didn't build it in my capital: I built it in my second city. My capital built a granary and churned out settlers, and workers to join to Iznik to speed the Pyramids.

It took a great deal of effort for me to get them though. I only had six towns at 1000BC. I'm hoping that the Pyramids build will speed up my growth enough to catch up to everyone else though. Still, it's kinda depressing reading about all those people that grabbed them from the Celts early, when I spent so much effort building them myself!

-Sirp.

 

[pilferman]

I seem to be the only one who conquered the Celts by 1000 BC. Actually I did it in 1250 BC. I didn't really even try, they were just really weak. I should have continued building military units and taken the Carthaginians too. Big mistake on my part. Here is my 1000 BC minimap and the accompanying zoomed-out map:

The barbarians are spawning everywhere. They regularly spawn camps in the first fog of war tile away from a city. Is this normal or are the barbarians on steroids for this game?

That's about it. I'm not doing as well as I should, but I'm not too worried about it.

 

[Smirk]

Still compiling some photos and timeline but I thought this one was slightly humorous. This doesn't really fit in anywhere, it was just one of many such occurances. (Note the slightly wounded squid. Such brave sailors.)

 

[Smirk]

Originally posted by Jabah

I really like to know what was the reasons

There are a number of reasons, one to get the mountain out of the radius. To get more river squares in, a move sw or w improves the capital by +2 river squares. A move sw removes 1 mountain and west removes 2! Lots of good reasons to move without seeing the wheat. All of this can be seen without moving at all by the way.

If you do the sensible thing and move your worker south on the shieldland, you will find another shieldland beside it, moving sw now will get that river shieldland in the radius. Later you'll find out that you actually traded a shieldland for that one since one was lost south of the mountain, but the one gained is a river shieldland, quite a bit better than the other.

I predict that most people that move would move sw or south, west may appear to be a great move but its not.

 

[Smirk]

Here is a slightly trimmed timeline upto 1000BC. I included a minimap shot at 775 BC although at that point I wasn't yet meeting this thread's requirements, however I passed by the other requirements before reaching the final tech in the AA so further minimaps will be posted in the next thread.

A bit long, but I removed my end of 1000BC notes which were quite a bit more lengthy. At the end is the more general events after the QSC period.

(The lines beginning with * are just my comments and thoughts, everything else is just ingame actions.)

4000 BC
- worker south to road and mine to mountain
- warrior north to mountain, spots silk and cow
- settler southwest
3950 BC
- founded Istanbul building warrior
- warrior east to mountain
- * I'm going to do a minimum research until I get some contacts and see who is near (no sense wasting my money). Just checked the space race and I see Carthage and Celts are back (as expected, just as the Ottomans will be around next month).
- * I'm researching Iron so that I don't have any problems trying to get it from other civs, and even with my horse based UU I'll do some early warrior upgrading. This could change depending on who is nearby. Both Rome and Cathage will be tough enemies in the early game, thankfully I don't also see the greeks again.
- 8.2.0 Iron Working (40)
3850 BC
- warrior to explore southeast and south
- * I can see coast or large lakes both northeast, southeast and west. Am I on an island?
3800 BC
- * Southeast is a coastline.
3700 BC
- * Ran into a problem, I can't irrigate the game after its cleared. It's still 3 food once cleared, so 14 turns for two growths. And about 6 turns to irrigate. To save a movement I'll delay the clearing and irrigate the plains first.
- warrior to explore north around cow, expected second city location
3650 BC
- * warrior spots dyes
3600 BC
- met Brennus, has two workers available for trade, only has starting techs
- traded Brennus Masonry, Bronze Working and 30g for two slaves
- * This is good maybe he'll build the Pyramids for me, although the lose of the workers will hurt him more than he realizes.
- * I'm back on schedule for the first settler though since the slaves can now clear the forest and the irrigation will be complete. I figure I'm about a turn off original estimates, but with the added slaves I can maybe develop the rest of the plan quicker.
3550 BC
- * warrior spots a mean looking squid and some heavy fog
3500 BC
- Istanbul finished warrior, building settler
- warrior to explore west and southwest
- * north warrior spots another cow and more silks
3450 BC
- Istanbul (2)
- 7.2.1 Iron Working (30)
- * Tempted at this point to join my original worker, pre-cleared I have 5 production and settler ready in 6 turns. Forest finished in 3 turns will put it a few shields from complete, joining the worker will easily let me finish it when the forest is cleared. I have a wheat and game so growth will not be a problem. I also have 3 shieldlands available and if this was a more fair difficulty I would have no problems getting the Pyramids built. Looks like if I join the worker next turn I will exactly finish the settler when the forest is cleared. I don't really know the timing of that, hopefully it will pop that turn. Guess I'll find out.
3400 BC
- worker joins Istanbul (3)
- 5.2.3 Iron Working (29)
3250 BC
- Isntabul (1) finished settler, building settler
- * Forest shields went after my last turn finishing the settler, but wasn't complete until this turn so I wasted the 6 shields I produced that turn. Pretty early settler though.
- settler heads north to settle cow
3100 BC
- founded Edrine building warrior
- * I could build a settler right away (with the cow and shieldland unimproved) but I would end up wasting a few turns. This way I should get a warrior and only have the settler delayed a couple turns and with less waste.
3000 BC
- * warrior spots west coastline and some spices, and another mean looking squid
- 6.2.2 Iron Working (21)
- * I saved about 3 turns by joining that worker which equates to about 9 food and 6 shields for the city once settled. Its just barely worth it with that in mind, but there are other considerations for getting that second city quickly, namely the relative power versus the AI. I'm in a weak position relative to the bonus production the AI has on this level so if I don't keep up they'll bully me into a hole I could never get out of.
- * I want to also get an archer built so I can harrass the Celts, getting one of their early settlers will be a big win. It looks like I won't get the first but I'll build one anyway and if Brennus decides to settle in my direction he'll lose a settler, maybe his second if I'm lucky. He has plains to his south and jungle to his west. I'd guess he'll send at least one settler north to get some of those dyes, there is a nice location just 2 moves out of his border (northeast) with a dye and 3 river shieldlands in the initial radius plus freshwater. I can't imagine him not doing this, but I also haven't uncovered much south so there may be something there better.
2900 BC
- Istanbul [mms]
- * Slow down growth by 2 turns to speed up production by 2, growth and settler finish in 4 turns.
2850 BC
- Edrine finished warrior, building settler
- warrior to explore local area and defend in case of barbarians
- * southern most warrior spots more incense, forgot to mention earlier a few turns back
- * Brennus founded Mohacs where I figured he would, need an archer in about 8 turns or so to head down there.
2800 BC
- met Hannibal, Brennus may have already met and traded since I can't
- * I just passed Brennus in score, and I am even with Hannibal at 99 points. I'll try to get some early techs in a few turns in peace renegotiations. Best time would be in about 5 turns when I place my third city (settler in 2 turns).
- Istanbul [normal]
- * I'm wasting either way, no sense delaying the growth
2750 BC
- * Lucky strike there, I often forget to calculate the production I get on the turn of growth, I got the settler one turn early from that growth. That's one reason to keep a variety of tiles around for a while so you can get exactly what you need. I expect a forest was worked which would give me that 2 shields I needed.
- Istanbul (1) finished settler building barracks
- * I don't have Warrior Code yet, so I'll prebuild expecting to get it in a few turns. Not a major prebuild since the irrigated game has no shield production anyway.
- settler moves south
- * Bit of a bad choice here, I should try to get the other cow or share the wheat or game, but I want to secure a good capital region but still leave room for Brennus to sacrifice a settler to me. Plus I want to settle quickly so I can appear more powerful and this is the closest and best spot.
- Edrine (2)
- 5.2.3 Iron Working (16)
- * I need some roads near Edrine, I have to move citizen to undeveloped river plain to get gold for entertainment. This is where that joined worker is hurting me.
2670 BC
- Istanbul switched to worker
2630 BC
- founded Uskudar building warrior
- 6.2.2 Iron Working (13)
2510 BC
- Istanbul finished worker, building settler
2430 BC
- Uskudar finished warrior, building settler
- 5.2.3 Iron Working (8)
- renegotiate peace with Hannibal got Warrior Code for 30g
- * This should let me build the archer and get one of Brennus settler, if I'm not fast enough then I'll renegotiate with him and get another cheap tech.
2310 BC
- Edrine (1) finished settler, building settler
- settler west to settle cow
- * warrior spots red (assuming Roman) border
2230 BC
- Uskudar (2)
2190 BC
- founded Aydin building warrior
- * warrior spots Celtic settler heading northwest from Entremont so I won't be able to attack it
- Istanbul switched to settler
2110 BC
- traded Hannibal Iron Working for Alphabet and 40g
- renegotiate peace with Brennus got The Wheel, Ceremonial Burial and 40g for Iron Working and Alphabet
- * Trying the above trade normally the difference was Ceremonial Burial and 20g.
- worker connected dyes, moving northeast to road and mine shieldland
- * Hannibal just settled his third city and my warrior is beside another settler stack, he has been busy and is about to match me at four cities. While Brennus is about to get his third, so maybe he has another coming. I did notice Mohacs went from size 2 to 1 when I stepped in his territory which is either a settler or he rushed a defensive unit.
- 8.1.1 Mathematics (40)
- * I managed to get Iron before any of them so the minimum science worked, I doubt I'll be able to get Math first but we'll see. At any rate I wish one of these guys would start the Pyramids, its not fatal but sure would be nice if they built it. Maybe one of them will get it in a cascade since I'm sure someone is working on the Oracle already.
2070 BC
- Istanbul (1) finished settler, building settler
- settler heads west, will share wheat
- 7.2.1 Mathematics (39)
2030 BC
- * Brennus just finished Horseback Riding
- traded Hannibal Ceremonial Burial for 25g
1950 BC
- Istanbul (2)
- founded Bursa building warrior
- * Celtic settler heads out of Mohacs, he was waiting for a warrior escort. I would have been able to reach it in time with an archer but now I don't want to break the peace treaty. I'm now trying to hedge him in with two warrior I had stationed nearby, maybe help him settle in a spot that fits better with my organization.
1830 BC
- Aydin finished warrior, building settler [normal]
- Uskudar (1) finished settler, building warrior
- * Hannibal just learned Writing and must have traded it to Brennus since they both have Writing and Horseback Riding now, I have neither.
1790 BC
- * Hannibal started building the Pyramids
- Edrine (1) finished settler, building settler
- settler moves west to settle spices
- * There is a pict loitering near Edrine, he won't attack my warrior though.
1750 BC
- Bursa finished warrior, building settler
- Istanbul (3)
1725 BC
- founded Konya building warrior then worker
- founded Adana building warrior then worker
- * I have a nice star pattern around my capital with 4 cities 2 tiles away on the diagonals. I got the west and east since I'll want some moderately good galley production cities.
1700 BC
- Istanbul (1) finished settler, building barracks
- settler heads southeast to tighten up border with Brennus
1675 BC
- Uskudar finished warrior, building settler
1650 BC
- Aydin (3)
- * Aydin is hurting, I have 3 citizens and 1 gold production. Not enough to buy a happy face with the corruption. I need to get it connected. With some better planning I should have been able to get more out of this city with the cow, a couple shieldlands and a forest.
- renegotiate peace with Hannibal got Horseback Riding for 35g
- * I figure peace was worth about 70-80g, Hannibal only had 39g so I took this deal instead.
1625 BC
- founded Sinop building warrior then worker
- Istanbul (2)
1600 BC
- Konya finished warrior, building worker
- Adana finished warrior, building worker
- Edrine (3)
- * Hannibal and Brennus both have Mysticism, not sure what direction the trade went.
1575 BC
- warrior 2/2 dies attacking pict (brave hut warrior)
1525 BC
- Edrine (1) finished settler, building settler
- settler moves southeast to settle silks
- * Hannibal just finished Pottery
1500 BC
- Sinop finished warrior, building worker
- worker connected spices
- Istanbul (3)
1475 BC
- Adana (1) finished worker, building barracks
- founded Kafa building warrior then worker
- Konya (1) finished worker, building barracks
- renegotiate peace with Brennus got Pottery and Writing for 55g
- * I estimate peace was worth about 100g to Brennus
- Edrine (2)
- warrior leaves Edrine to intercept pict coming from west towards Aydin
1450 BC
- Bursa (1) finished settler, building settler
- settler heads south to complete pretty city circle
- interrupted slaves to move them north out of danger from pict
1425 BC
- ouch, pict ransacked Adana and took 52g
- Aydin (4) pop rushed for measely 6 shields, this city is too corrupt
- Istanbul finished barracks, building settler
1400 BC
- Aydin (1) finished settler, building settler
- settler moves east to settle on coast with fish
1375 BC
- founded Ankara building warrior then worker
- Sinop (1) finished worker, building barracks
- Istanbul (4)
1350 BC
- Kafa finished warrior, building worker
- Edrine (3)
1300 BC
- Uskudar (1) finished settler, building barracks
- settler heads southeast to settle gems
- founded Urfa building worker
- Edrine (1) finished settler, building settler
- settler heads north
1275 BC
- worker connect Ankara, northeast to road and mine shieldland
- Istanbul (2) finished settler, building warrior
- settler heads north to settle horses
- Bursa (2)
1250 BC
- Ankara finished warrior, building worker
1225 BC
- Istanbul (3) finished warrior, building warrior
- founded Riza near gems, building worker
- Kafa (1) finished worker, building barracks
- founded Zonguldak, building worker

[snipped to obey message limit]


At the end I had 14 cities, about 16 warriors most of them regular and 2 settlers standing on their chosen home.
I still had an active peace treaty with Brennus so I prepared to wait that out and have my forces ready when it expired in about 2 turns.
If you missed it in the above (easy to do) I did minimum science with Iron, Mathematics and Polytheism and managed to benefit from each. (Iron wasn't minimum, but pretty close.)
I also got contact with Caesar right after the QSC period. Actually Hannibal got it first, but he didn't benefit as much. I had a peacy treaty expiring. At the end of that turn ~800BC I had ~1500g and all three of them were completely broke.

 

[Smirk]

I had to trim my post quite a bit.

I think the Celts did have some barb problems early since around 3600BC I was able to trade for two slaves. I doubt he was at war yet so it had to be barbs. Now I guess it could be sheer chance that he happened to be moving the workers thru his city, but I doubt it. They were there the first turn I got contact, and it seems highly unlikely. My money is on barbs.


Also I cut out my early movement discussion cause it was a bit lengthy (15000 character limit ). The main reason I moved southwest was to make good room for my second city which would be getting the much more powerful grassland/cow. And as I said previously the wheat isn't very important especially on a plain. I think my third city I settled to the west and used the wheat continously so my capital never used it. Especially true since it was a bit out of the way for early development (and if you read my timeline you'll see other reasons why the wheat didn't get much attention.)
This is a textbook case where one tile is better at one job than another so the "other" tile is ignored and not used. The game gives 4f, the wheat 3f. And with the few shieldlands I spent 99.9% of my time on one shieldland and the game. In this case 2f2s2g beats 3f1s2g when you have a 4f0s tile available.

So for those concerned, I wouldn't be. I'll be surprised if anyone moves west or southwest and takes advantage of both tiles in any way that their game is much better. Both tiles are limited in production. Late game of course the wheat and game would allow higher production when using the hills or mountains. I think the keys to growth in this start is getting and irrigating the game (and this can't be missed really) and getting that second city with the cow.

The only major impact any choices I made had was choosing to settle south third instead of the wheat. Had I settled the wheat third and not joined my worker my game would have turned out quite a bit differently. Although I'd be highly impressed with anyone building 18-20 cities. I think 16 is very doable (also since I was only 1 turn away from 16.)

 

[Smirk]

Originally posted by serttech2003

3450 CELTS we trade BW/MAS/30gp for WC/CB; barracks switched to temple still pre-building for grainry
3100 temple done, think i'll take it and build spearman
2900 spear finished, barracks started;

If I read that right you built a temple and then built a spearman. I would consider both of those mistakes that early. The temple just isn't that high a priority especially not before you get that first settler. Instead of the spearman you could have built two warriors. One could be fortified to give the content face that a temple would and the other could be exploring or harrasing your neighbors, or search and destroy for barbs. If you keep the number of units below or at the level your cities can support it will be free, whereas a temple will always have one gold upkeep.

2150 switch Iznik to granary will build them a spear in Sogut;
1990 spear heads to Iznik, another started;

Another couple early spears, you had iron working and iron was close by, build some warriors and upgrade them if you are concerned about defense. If the spear was just for content faces then a warrior is cheaper and has the same effect.

1650 Uskudar founded barracks started; warrior 1 ne; warrior 2 n

1225 Uskudar finishes barracks pumps warriors; w

This is good.

1220 Sogut starts settler; Aydin founded granary started;

Now opinions vary on this but I generally skip many granaries and I especially won't built any this late. Unless it helps early growth or you can't get Pyramids on the same landmass I rarely build granaries.

1175 Antalya founded spear started;

Another spear. I can't really tell how many cities you had at 1000BC or in fact where some of the cities were settled so its more of a guess as to what production was too early or late. But early game spears are pretty expensive, especially if you have iron and iron working and intend to upgrade warriors. Swordman have the same defense of spears but offer much more offense so generally should be a good target to shoot for early game. Meaning you don't need to build spearman. The only time I build spearman early is when defense is a concern, on an island map that is generally never the case.

I did build early spearman in gotm18 but that was because the barbs in that map caused all the AI civs to have units in my backyard so I had to account for an enemy popping up at any time. In addition the Celtic swords were very costly so spearman were more cost efficient.

 

[Hurricane]

4000 bc Move worker S, spot Game! Move warrior N, spot cows! Wow, this is a hard choice. After long consideration, I move the settler E. My reasoning is that I save 1 move compared to moving S of the cow, but more important, I can relatively quickly cut down the forest and immediately after that irrigate the Game, while I have to move 3 tiles, then irrigate the plains, and only after that begin working on the cow.

3950 bc Settle N of the game, move worker to Game. Warrior moves W.
3900 bc Worker starts chopping down forest. Warrior spots Wheat! I guess we will se a lot of different starting positions. Start researching Iron Working on min science.
3800 bc See coast to the west, and also to the east. Seems our contacts are due south.
3700 bc Forest chopped down, goes to build spearman. Worker irrigates, then roads.
3000 bc Settler.
2850 bc Found Iznik NE of Wheat.
2800 bc Meet Keltoi. They have Ceremonial and Warrior Code to offer, I nohting. I don't buy anything.
2590 bc Settler. Barb in sight, luckily they are normal 1/1/1 conscripts. I was afraid Cracker had some surprises in mind.
2470 bc Uskadar founded S of cows.
2430 bc Meet neoCarthage. They have Alphabet, the Wheel, Warrior Code and Ceremonial (like the Keltoi).
2150 bc build Izmit on hill NE of Dyes.
2070 bc Discover Iron Working. There is Iron next to Sogut! Build Aydin S of 2nd cattle. Trade IW for Alphabet&Cere&9 g w. Carthage, IW&Alphabet&20 g for The Wheel&Warrior Code w. Keltoi. Start on Writing @40 turns.
1950 bc Hut warrior killed by barb horseman S of Keltoi lands. 5 cities, 311 gold. Keltoi surprisingly weak, have only 3 cities.

1830 bc Carthage knows Writing but has no new contacts. I guess we are only 3 on this island. Switch to pottery @4 turns (90%).
1790 bc Spearman killed when attacking barb camp. Warrior killed when attacking barb horseman.
1700 bc My warriors are more lucky and disperse one camp, destroys one horseman. Spot FOG to the east. Discover Pottery, same time as Carthage. Buy Writing for 290 g. Establish embassies. Entremont is size 3 and builds Pyramids @56 turns. Carthage is size 1, builds Spartan Hoplite @4 turns. Have only 14 g left.
1575 bc Hook up Silks.
1450 bc Buy Mysticism from Keltoi for ROP and 15 g.
1325 bc AI learns Horseback Riding.
1275 bc Buy Map Making&maps from AI. Trade maps:

1175 bc First Galley, starts scouting E.
1125 bc Buy Philosophy for 200 g from Carthage, trade Philosophy for Horseback riding w. Keltoi.
1100 bc Uskudar builds Temple, starts on Forbidden Palace @50 turns.
1075 bc Erdine completes Barracks.
975 bc Power according to Pliny: I am 3rd!
925 bc 14 cities, 423 g.
900 bc Pay 34 g tribute to Carthage.
875 bc Land on island E of Keltoi. See Roman border.
850 bc Contact Rome. Get Code of Laws, map&181 g for own map & contacts & philosophy.

Later I try to buy a worker and get Rome's last 4 gold, but it turns out it is impossible! I wonder what the reason behind this is:

670 bc Entremont finishes Pyramids! Meet new civs, trade map&contacts for map&contact, get Mathematics, get 550 g from Carthage for map&contacts. ROPs net me an additional 103 g. I have now 1675 gold.
650 bc Carthage comples Great Library.
630 bc Galley lost in treacherous waters.
610 bc Buy Construction from an AI civ for 160 g&contacts.
570 bc Discover Polytheism, buy it is discovered the same turn by 3 AIs. Sell to an AI civ for 76g.
530 bc Upgrade 19 warriors to Swordsmen.
510 bc Declare war on Keltoi. Keltoi's iron is not hooked up.
490 bc Lugdunum destroyed. Galley killed when attacking FOG.
450 bc Richborough captured.
430 bc Entremont and the Pyramids captured.
350 bc Keltoi destroyed.
310 bc Forbidden Palace completed in Uskudar.
270 bc Discover Monarchy, go into Anarchy. Trade for Currency&258g w. an AI civ. Enter new era, learn Monotheism. Gift Polytheism to Rome, then buy Republic for Currency, Construction, Monarchy, contacts & 540 g. Sell Monarchy&ROP to Carthage for 97 g (seems they were about to discover Monarchy). A ROP nets me 13g.

The map in 270 bc:

I am the tech leader, 664 gold. There are no trades at all by this date. Only war has been between me & Keltoi. My army consists of 5 settlers, 9 workers&5 slave workers, 9 warriors, 14 swordsmen, 1 horseman & 3 galleys.

I have 4 luxuries hooked up (dyes, spices, silks & gems), as well as Horses & Iron. My city improvements are Pyramids, Forbidden Palace, 1 temple & 2 barracks.

My plan now is to switch to Republic, build up money for a mass Horseman->Knight upgrade (I will need about 20x80g=1600 gold). After I've built the around 20 horsemen, I will put an effort into getting libraries. I am researching Theology @ 40 turns, so when I get Knights will depend on the AI, but I hope it will be within 20-40 turns. I will then crush neoCarthage and jump my capital to Carthage.

 

[Hurricane]

@ belgarathus: you should probably edit your post; Cracker specifically mentioned not talking about other civs than Celts, Carthage & Rome.

@ Tone: you are probably right about the fact that they flatly will refuse any gold/gold deal, because IIRC they were willing to sell the worker for 30g. Maybe they were running a deficit or something.

About the granary: I took a chance and hoped to buy Pottery from an AI civ, but it turned out none of them knew it. So I ended up building a Spearman instead if a granary. The 4 food from the irrigated deer gave me settlers at a moderate pace, but together with the wheat and cattle I got them cranked out pretty fast. And the fact that the Keltoi were so poorly expanding helped a lot, too.

 

[Hurricane]

Just wanted to thank you for the great posts, guys! I had a really fun time reading all the posts.

Originally posted by r0ck
3000 Met Hannibal. here is our scientifc neighbor. It will be a tough early start. 2 UU´s in the same time, same continent. Spoted spice in jungle, close to gems. We are forgotten in the most powerfull of the world. Thats good enough. When the nukes show up, they will remember us!

Originally posted by RufRydyr
I was really hating life when I lost my capital of RufRydyrville. I sued for peace and went on with the daunting task of catching up. As you'll see in the future, I did OK. But losing my capital really hurt!

The irony, the irony. Not only to lose your capital but to lose your named capital!

Originally posted by CruddyLeper
3000BC A miner disaster - the square irrigated and roaded by the worker is outside of Iznik's boundary. Set the worker to mining the cow as a punishment.

Those pesky workers! I guess you took the game concept to the extremes; the slaves are the only ones getting something done.

BTW, my stats at 1000 bc: 13 cities (22 pop), 1 temple, 1 barracks, 1 settler, 6 workers, 12 warriors, 1 galley. 2 luxuries hooked up. Not great, but not disastrous.

 

[Hurricane]

Tao: your histograph also hints at an extra Roman settler, and my histograph shows the same. I am pretty confident that they got one extra settler to start with. Not that it will help them...

 

[Hurricane]

Originally posted by hotrod0823
Re: Here is a quick picture of 1000 BC

I have:
9 cities
319 gold
1 granary
3 baracks
2 temples

And 4 techs from the Middle ages.

4 middle age techs by 1000 bc?

Originally posted by Aloc
My vet archer gets attacked by a barbarian and wins, turns elite and gives me a Great Leader!!! I'm not sure of the exact time, but it was around 2000BC and I rushed the leader home to build the the Great Pyramid in 1830BC. After reading a few of the timelines I realize that getting the GL on the first chance is pretty rare.

You can't get leaders from fighting barbarrians. Maybe you attacked a wandering Celtic warrior?

 

[Hurricane]

Oh, I see. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[utahjazz7]

Well, this is my first GOTM, hip-hip-hooray! I didn't keep a timeline like so many others, but I'll give a quick recap of the action . . . hmm, we'd better make that a lack of action. I missed the wheat when I founded my capitol at the starting location. Anyway, I explored with a few warriors to scout new places to settle. I ended up founding my next cities in position to grab all but one dye-location, which the Celts grabbed and on top of the gems. After establishing my temporary southern border, I filled in the northern part of the land mass with cities. In my only ancient era war, Carthage took my "gem city," but my swordsmen were quick to recapture it.

I'm normally a regent player, but I've enjoyed playing this game on the higher difficulty.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Originally posted by Zwingli

4000 BC..... Move warrior north to the mountain revealing a wheat resource just under the fog.....

I think you should get the 'eagle-eye' award if you were using the game's default graphics.

I settled at the start location (so everybody knows what I did, and I'm not 'replaying').

But I took another look at the 4000 B.C. save to see if the wheat was possible to see by moving the warrior north.
The first image is using the default graphics, with an arrow pointing to a single pixle or two that was the wheat. The second is using a graphic modpack that is effectively cheating and which should not be used in any games. Sorry. cracker

The move southwest surely isn't as questionable as the move in last month's game. Zwingli could see the wheat, and several other players have given very good reasons why they moved, and DaveMcW stated that would be his move in the pre-game thread, before anyone ever saw the save.

Moving just because someone wanted less mountains in the city, is a poor excuse. If it was a big mountain range, I could understand it, but not for just 1 or 2 lone mountains. You wouldn't be using every single tile until extremely late in the game anyways. I only worry about anyone that finds the 'perfect' place to settle in every game (when you can't see the bonus food from the start, or by normal logical moves). A game here and there, fine, I don't worry about that, because that is most likely luck.

 

[Bamspeedy]

What would the more experienced people do when faced with an undefended town -- do you weigh the reputation hit against the chance to knock the AI back, or just do it?

I would have declared war and razed the city. But that is just the evil war-monger in me. I like killing defenseless scouts, too (if I'm not going for fast science).

If you aren't worried about going to war, and not trying for a diplomatic victory, then do it. If you currently had a gpt deal going on (or any other treaty), then it is a much bigger risk, because you may want to do more deals later on in the game. Having a bad rep (where you can't make gpt deals anymore) does make the game harder.

For the other things: You probably know most of this stuff, but in case there are other new players, they may get some benefits from this.

#1. Yes, entertainers drain resources. They eat food, but supply none. It is almost always better to use the luxury slider. But you have to look to see how many cities are benefiting from the luxury slider. If you have 10 cities, and only 1 will benefit from the luxury slider, then maybe it would be better to just hire an entertainer. But, if that 1 city is building a wonder, then you may want to use the luxury slider. 10-30% luxury rate is probably usual. 30% might be a little high, but usually not higher than that (except sometimes when you only have your capital and it is a fast growing city building a granary, or when you are towards the very end of a war in republic-democracy and you are battling war-weariness).

It would extremely rare that you would want a clown in the capital. Especially prior to 1000 b.c. the luxury slider is pretty powerful if used correctly. Build cheap warriors for military police to help stop entertainers and over-use of the luxury slider.

2. Yes, the governor isn't the best (especially if you want your city to continually stay at +5 food for example). When you start getting many cities, you may want to use them in high-corrupt areas, so you don't need to check so many cities every turn. Download the smiley badges to make it so much easier to see who is happy and who isn't (it's in the graphic modpacks forum). If you get lazy and your city is going into disorder every 10-20 turns or so, then you better use the governor or start paying closer attention.

3. If I'm going at max science, then I just set science at the highest possible rate, while still leaving 10 gold in my treasury (so I don't get that annoying reminder every turn that my treasury is low). Remember to turn it down just before learning a tech and see if you can save some money and still learn the tech the next turn.

4.Yep, if you know which techs take a long time for the AI to research (polytheism, mathematics, currency, etc.). 10%, or a scientist in a high-corrupt town. I usually just cash in the tech for whatever the AI has at that time. Checking with 10 civs (like in GOTM18) every turn can be tedious. Should probably check every few turns or so.

 

[Bamspeedy]

I guess you shouldn't have settled on the starting location.

Easy to say in hindsight, and for those who moved the warrior west.

I've nonetheless also encountered my share of bad fortune. I'd gladly turn in all those later great leaders for a single one early on in just one gotm, as some people seem to get on a regular basis!

Building the pyramids by hand is the most safe way of obtaining the Pyramids. But, by spending those 400 shields elsewhere, you can have more cities or more military (400/30=13+ horsemen for example). It depends on what your aim is. For example, building up military to quickly obliterate your opponent's capital quickly is the most efficient way of knocking down your neighbors, but usually offers few battles in the hopes of generating a leader. Sending military in piecemeal offers more battles, hence more often than not, more leaders (at the expense of wasting shields by building more units that end up being killed, usually). In the Rome game I had warriors fortified just outside Japan's city, so that their archers would be exposed for an easy attack by my warriors (just make sure they don't have roads to use to get the attack initiative). Using horseman (retreat ability) instead of swordsmen, allows your units to at least survive many more battles, and of course, that results in more leaders. I leave the AI capital alone, most of the time, because their capital is building a wonder, so I let them continue to do so and instead focus on other cities, then capture the wonder later. It is very, very, rare that I would attack with regular units. I only build 2-3 regulars for early exploration, then the rest are veterans. And it makes a big difference, not necessarily in number of units, but how often they are seeing battles. I am almost always in constant wars, and that is why I go for monarchy instead of republic, and I go for conquest instead of spaceship. If you obliterate an enemy with 1 elite battle, you aren't as likely to get a leader than if that elite saw 5-6 battles. Getting a leader around 1000 B.C. (sometimes a little earlier, sometimes a little later) is usual for me, because I fish for leaders. Earlier than that is pretty lucky, but not impossible.

Just plopping down as many cities as you can does not make your game.

True, you have to think about where you place your cities.

LUCK also seems to play a major factor in some people's games. Most of the time they make brilliant moves, then all of the sudden they make a questionable move, that ends up being the 'best move', or what I would call dumb luck.

----

{Bamspeedy, I am going to move this final topic over into the middle ages full map discussion because I think it is important but at the same time it probably is not appropriate here because of the deatails we should discuss. I will appluad you powers of observation there. - cracker}

 

[dojoboy]

I was happily surprised w/ how easily I was able to expand at the emperor level; very happy w/ my initial set up. Although I've kept polite relationships during this period, both Keltoi and neoCarthage have been relunctant to trade. Obviously, the Keltoi would provide my tech advancements via the battlefield. Work to maintain polite relationship w/ neoCarthage. Also, the landmass provides for an easily defendable front against any southern aggression.