*Spoiler1* Gotm21-Melee - Full World Map+Middle Ages

[denyd]

scubagtr, if I expect an early GA (like in this game), I'll build my FP brick by brick in my most productive (non-capital) city. As soon as the GA starts, I switch whatever is being build to FP in that city. Using the GA I built my FP in 15 turns in Sparta (I was building a library and switched).

When (if) I get a GL, I'll switch my palace to somewhere more central (Berlin maybe??)

 

[samildanach]

Something funny is going on with forest rushing. If you try to forest rush a wonder then go back to a city improvement then it wont allow you to rush that with chopping down forest either.
On the occassion where I managed to get shields added to the palace build I chopped down two forests simultaneously and I got the shields for one of them - on the next turn I got the civ has generated errors and will now be exited message which isnt exactly what I was hoping for. I have tried it another two times and havent been credited with any shields but havent been kicked out.

 

[scubagtr]

Ahh yes denyd,

The old Palace jump with a side of GL move. I've thought about doing that, but not on a GOTM month (yet), until I can see the true effects. I'm usually pretty conservative during my GOTMs and just trying to win against the AIs. Which I've only done 1 of 4 games, soon to be 2 of 5 after tonight

 

[BretP]

I have been having lots of trouble, but the reason that I ma here is to talk about the traits of the civs in this game. No one is sure about the Minoans. I know several of us saw a Minoan scout which led us to beleive that they are Expan, but I recently saw a GERMAN SCOUT!?!?!?! Is this gotm cheating or is this a bug?

 

[Bamspeedy]

No, it's not cheating. They didn't want any scientific civs in the game, so they changed all the scientific civs to a different trait.

The main reason for no scientific civs (except for the player, of course) is because in PTW, each scientific civ can get a different tech at each era. So a PtW player could acquire (through trades) 2-3 extra techs every era by gifting the AI scientific civs into the next age. This could potentially make PTW players launch their spaceship 24+ turns earlier than Civ3 1.29f players. Faster tech rate can also affect other victory conditions/score.

 

[BretP]

thanx for clearing that up.

 

[denyd]

This is going to be kind of a wacko report. I'm up to 280AD, but I didn't qualify for this spoiler until 110AD when I finally met the Romans & Atlantis. Because of the middle age limitations, I'll recap by topic:

Wonders:
Russia got Colossus
Celts got Hanging Gardens & Pyramids
Germans got Great Wall
Ottoman got Great Library
Minoans built Great Lighthouse, but now is mine
Not sure who got Oracle (I think French)
I built my FP in Sparta during my Golden Age

World Power:
At 1000BC I was last of the 8 I knew, the Ottoman & Russia 1-2
At 10AD I was 3 of 12 trailing Ottoman by 35 and Persia by 10
Currently (280 AD) #2 behind Ottoman by 15. There really isn't any 800lb gorilla in the game. I'm ahead on tech by at least 1 on 3-4 AI and 5+ on a couple. Military, I had built a lot of warriors planning a mass upgrade to swords, but just before I was about to execute the plan, Athens iron ran out. By the time I got a city to the other location, swords weren't available anymore.

Weaklings:
Many of the off main islanders are very tech behind. When I met Atlantis & Rome in 100AD I was able to trade them Cermonial Burial & Masonry!! Atlantis has an early culture burst, but now they are with the Romans, Minoans & Hittites at the bottom. The Minoans were doing fine until they sneak attacked me. They're down to 2 cities and won't see 400AD. Peltast's & archers vs MA units won't take long.

Resources:
I have 3-4 Incense hooked up as well as 5-6 cotton. Trading for spice & wool. I had 2 irons, but 1 ran out, also have 2 horses.

Exploration:
Originally used a couple of warriors to explore. Met Minoans first, followed by Germans, French and Ottoman. I tried a couple of galleys, but barbs got them both without much success. Ended up trading tech/$$ for other contacts & maps.

Overall situation:
Wars will be over soon. I'll have to decide if Germany is going to be a problem. They are my only land border neighbor (we all know how well the AI does with Amphib invasions), so I'll have to decide if they should go so I can open paths to Ottomans, French and Russians. I'm normally not warmonger, but if I take over the entire starting land mass, I'll be the tech, population, commercial and industrial leader. Then it's on to space.

 

[rabies]

Seems like my game is the only game so far where the Pyramids were built by one of the 'Island' Civs (Persia..who got both Pyramids and Colossus).

I never saw barbs in our starting area either. Of course, I did have an active military of about 5 warrior patrolling for barbs..which probably helped.

 

[Zwingli]

(Civ3 1.29 Predator)
With such a large amount of land in this GOTM, I decided to go for a more laid back game plan without striving to dominate or conquer the world . To make it a bit more interesting, I self-imposed the following restrictions hoping that the boosted AI civs would be able to put up a reasonable challenge for the diplomatic or space race victory:

1. No offensive warfare or use of slaves.
2. No giving in to extortion (or paying for peace).
3. No military alliances.


In 3100 BC, the first barbarian warrior defeated my attacking warrior, forcing a large delay in bringing irrigation to the capital as the worker had to be diverted to a safe location. With no other defense in range, the barb warrior sacked Athens for my entire treasury (64g). A 40 turn Writing gambit was successful which brought Greece back into the tech parity, but max research gambits on Mapmaking, Philosophy, and Polytheism all failed. Russia declared war in 1175 BC due to a refused tribute demand, but only a few warriors on each side were destroyed during the war. By 1000 BC I had 9 cities with 7 workers, and was running out of space to settle due to the accelerated expansion of the predator civs.

Signing ROPs with neigboring civs prevented Russia from buying alliances against me (by raising the cost of an alliance), and Peace was signed on neutral terms in 550 AD. Contact with the Southern half of the world occured in 490 BC when all of the Northern civs suddenly had additional contacts to sell. In 310 BC I contacted the last civ in the world (Persia) and had entered the Middle Ages. Since I would not have any additional expansion by warfare, the end of the Ancient age was spent shuttling settlers over to the pennensula south of the Ottomans in order to grab the last bits of nearby open land.
----------------------------

Although I won't have the time to fully explore the map this month, it looks like a very interesting world which can't quite be classified as continents, pangea, or 'pelago. The abundance of sea-based resources really make the coastline much more valuable, and make "fishing villages" (which harvest the water tiles for commerce) more worthwhile. It looks like Atlantis got an early boost to compensate for their otherwise poor starting location, but unlike many of the Open class games, Rome survived and was similar in power to Atlantis by the Middle Ages (perhaps propped up in the early game by the predator bonus units).

 

[Wanderer]

A strange wanderer re-enters the landa of GOTM, and after staring at it's unusual inhabitants, decied to visit, for a while ...

I'm playing OPEN, PTW 1.21 (sorry - haven't got the cool pic's to add in).

Hmmm. very intersting start. Since I've decided to try and go for the SpaceRace MEDAL victory condition, I beelined for Writing. Founded Sparta next to fresh water - I think the best I managed to get was a 5/6 settler factory - I still hvaen't mastered that yet, altho SG gaming is helping.

I went military-LITE (for the choloestrol, you know ) By 1000 BC (I've played for QSC21 as well, hoping for better than my dismal QSC 19 (80th! I think it was )

My QSC "number's":
13 cities
23 units(4 worker;13 war;6 hop)
1039G
all base tech + IW, Maths, Writ, MAp, HBR, Mysti. Lit in 14.
ranked last on Power (187)
21 citizens
Contact with Mino (2950bc),Germany & Russia (2150bc),Otto (1790bc),Celts(1725bc),France(1425bc).
No wonders - Mino has Colossus, Germany has Pyramids.
Tech leader, and abusing my contacts knowledge - only I have contact with minoans. Map tradin was very profitable! +175G and mathematics.

I just have to say, I read a TRADING thread - I think Moonsinger set it up ? And MAN did it help. I am murdering thro trade!!!! Over 1000 GP by 1000 BC ( Hey, I think it's amazing... , and I have tech leadership)

My research was on Min sci, going Writing, then, due to a Island scare, I went for Map Making, which I got just in time to absolutely OWN those other civ's. Map trading gained me 175G, full WM from the 6 civ's I knew then, and Math's.

Anyway, it took me to 190BC to make this thread, because when I got Persia,Egypt,Carthage,Zulu,Hittites - NO ONE had met Spain,Rome or Atlantis. I was able to make it to Rome with a suicide galley (well , there was this big black area South of the Mino PEnisula, so .... ). Boy did I make a Killing from that little lot. I still can't believe that the persian's never found spain!!!
At 190 BC I had 2780 gold.
By 10BC - I traded away the contacts, I had 3800 gold. I am now max science and maanged to get the GLib. My Great Lighthouse turned into a great pre-build for Sun Tzu's (just in case, you understand) ... it is 14 turns away, and no-one else has feudalism yet.

Here are some pics to show my world at the moment.

... well - Edit - Seems I knida missed the babylonians! 10AD, The Zulu's have acommunication that I don't have. Huh! Only they and russia have it. Some quick bartering, and by trading the contact, and the resulting world maps (Babylonians WAY!!! behind in tech), my net GAIN (after substracting the 125 G cost of the contact) is : 861 G, and 5gpt , so effectively 961 !!! I got GPT for world map from 2 civs and got my cash up to 3961 G (I spend 800 G or so the turns before getting embassies). The rest of the world has a combined 248 G in total.

 

[MadScot]

1.21f Open

posted by cracker
1) try to report and discuss how you progressively gained contact with other civilizations in your world.
2) you may want to discuss what you think the Civilization traits may be for civilizations that are in the game that would have normally been "scientific".
3) you may want to discuss specifics of how you think the map configuration reflects the character of a real world Mediterranean like situation and any specific strategy elements that you may be using to try and take advantage of or deal with the special characteristics of the map.

Contacts:
2750BC: Minoans
1550BC: Germans (they contacted us)
then traded for contact with France, Russia, Celts
they didn't all have mutual contact, so I traded that between them all
We spent: 355g and 10gpt, plus Writing, and got back: 4 workers, 3 contacts (Fr, Ru, Ce), 4 techs (Iron, Wheel, Warrior Code, Mysticism) and 220g
1150BC spotted what would end up as the Ottoman cultural boundary, but without contact
1075BC: traded for contact with Ottomans and another round of tech/contact arbitrage
750BC: Romans destroyed before we can meet them (from later evidence, destroyed by Atlantis
490BC: our first suicide galley, the Mycenae II having sailed down the Ottoman coast, past the volcano (surviving a turn at sea) and defeating a squid meets the Atlanteans
(a second galley, Mycenae I, died exploring S from Minoan lands
450BC: a series of cascading contacts brings the rest of the world to our attention. The Northern and Southern groups of civs are unknown to each other. By various trading I get 1750g and a full map, plus at least tech equality with all
350BC: the AIs made N-S contact without my assistance - there had been a cultural border visible S of France for some time, but no-one had any gold, so it wasn't worth selling contacts
230BC: the present. 5 other civs in the middle ages, but we have the only MA tech. The other 9 are backwards to varying degrees.

Traits
Well, I've seen no scouts, so can't make any judgements there.

Map
Not being used to playing on such a large map I'm a bit disoriented by it, to be honest. I may have to focus on local events and ignore the far off stuff.

From looking at the AI cities as I made embassies I was immediately struck that most of the AI start locations look pretty lush and green! Fully 12 have rivers and one has a fresh water lake. (The Minoans beat me to the embassy, and no Romans). But the screenshots just look green!!

It certainly appears that our little area is the most arid (might be a mis-impression, I've not really studied the whole map)

Volcano
Spotted the volcano en route to the Atlanteans. Can't see any good reason to attack it - it doesn't seem to be hiding workers, like the ones in a previous game did. Haven't really seen any other oddities, except that Atlantis is building "settler1" units so I assume they had a similar set of conditions as did the Romans in the Ottoman game.

AI Mismanagement
Again, looking at my embassy screenshots:
Carthage will build a settler in 8, yet is still 4 turns away from size 2, and will only have at best +3 food at size 2 also. So it's 11 turns at least from size 3, and will have 27 shields in about 5 turns.
Moscow is trying to build the Pyramids with 3spt!
Persepolis is 5 turns from pop 3, yet already has the 27 shields accumulated.
Thebes is 4 turns away, and already has the shields for the settler
So three AIs are badly mismanaging settler builds, and the Russians are trying to start an expensive wonder in a size 1 city.
Also many of the AIs are forsaking food bonus tiles to work shields instead. (Unused game, cattle and wheat in various places)

Currently I'm torn between:
1. trying to settle the ex-Roman lands before the Atlanteans can claim it all
2. Settling on the Ottoman peninsula
3. Waging a war against one of my neighbours (Minoans)
I'm in the second turn of a 6 turn anarchy towards Republic, so any war will await that completing anyway.

I'm using a sparse RCP with a ring at 4 about both Athens and Sparta (where my FP is). I'm also planning a ring of 8 about Sparta, pending a Palace jump at some point. I am moving off the strict RCP positions to get coastal locations or squeeze in cities in some places. But I think it helps nontheless.

My world in 210BC

 

[TriviAl]

Open Ptw 1.21

I'm enjoying this (my 2nd) GOTM a lot. Got stuck into it over a couple of well earned days off work... I apologise for this being light on dates and specifics, but I don't have the game or any notes to hand:

Managed to botch up my start a little bit, settled where I started and pushed out a settler too early, stunting my growth somewhat. Also managed a less than ideal placement of my cities. I got over these problems and got my expansion well on the way.

Headed for Writing/Literacy - built a lot of libraries and started my own (serious) reasearch while still in the ancient age. This worked out well, I took a very early tech lead and used this to trade for contacts, maps, luxuries and workers. I managed to build a very impressive force of slave workers, which lowered my overheads and allowed me to concentrate my tribe on other things. Thought this had a suitably mediterainian feel to it

The Germans were becoming a world power early in the game, so I decided to stunt them - a force of warriors upgraded to swordsmen went after their core, a second force of horsemen to chase after their outlying cities. I was slightly overprepared and this succeeded very well, I managed to punch through and seize Berlin (by the gems in this game) and everything to the south... including the Oracle, leaving the germans a few hill/tundra cities. I avoided using any hoplites, so as to save my golden age for a better government. Berlin was at about 50% corruption with a courthouse, so I hand building the FP there, as my great leader luck sucks (as usual!). This war also yeilded a huge number of slaves.

My forces then massed on the border with the Minoans. Volak looks far too psychotic to mess with and has been parading a peltast/archer stack around my borders, so I am waiting for later age tech to upgrade my offensive capabilities against them. They are sizable but I have kept them poor and backward.

I didn't meet the requirements for this spoiler until the middle ages, but full contact and map was gained through trade.

This map has affected my play to a large extent. I only have a single very food rich city in my core and a couple of partially good ones.... so I have pushed towards tech and growth while using large slave stacks to build my improvements.

Just for the record, I love this GOTM - the resources, new tribes and layout have added together to produce a really entertaining civ game with a very different feel! Many thanks to everyone involved.

 

[Vici]

Open.

Founded Athens on starting position. No point in moving. Work lambs.
Researched writing then literature at minimum.

Sparta founded in 2900BC and became my settler factory. I neglected to manage Sparta properly and wasted plenty of potential.
2110BC Thermolylae
1500BC Corinth
1425BC Delphi
1400BC Pharsalos
1250BC Argos
1050BC Mycenae

900BC Plebos Nexia
825BC Herakleia
775BC Qitaiodea
570BC Brepalonica
30BC Ephesus
310BC Thessalonica
210BC Rhodes

230AD Eretria founded
780AD Marathon


1850BC Contacted Minoans.
1990BC Contacted Germany. Buy contact with French (Alphabet and 50 gold).
Buy contact with Russia from France (30 gold and contact with Minoans).
Sell Alphabet to Russia for Burial and 38 gold.
Buy Masonry from France for Pottery, Burial and 6 gold.
Get the Wheel from Minoans for Masonry and 13 gold.
I still have a monopoly on Writing.
Score: Minoans 135, Russia 122, Germany 117, France 117, Greece 98.

1950BC Buy warrior code from Russia for 73 gold.

Thermolylae started barracks when founded, intending to change to Pyramids. I did this and added a worker to speed it up, but when I established an embassy with France, I saw that I had no chance to build before her. With fifteen other civs to worry about, I decided to forget about building any early wonders. Changed to temple without loss of shields.
France completed the Pyramids in 925BC.


1625BC Buy contact with Ottomans from Russia for Mysticism and 52 gold.
Trade Mysticism and Horseback riding to France for Iron working and 2 gold (all she had).

1275BC Buy contact with Keltoi from Germany for 59 gold.
Sell Alphabet to Keltoi for all (57) his gold.

1000BC Get Territory map, Maths, and 6 gold from Ottomans for Literature.
Sell Maths and Literature to Russia for Map Making, Territory map, and 5 gold.
Sell Maths and Map Making to France for Philosophy, world map, and 75 gold.
Sell Maths to Keltoi for world map and 5 gold.
Sell Maths to Minoans for world map. They have no gold.
Sell world map to Russia for map and 17 gold.
Trade maps with Germany. He has no gold.
Trade maps with Ottomans. He has no gold.


950BC Germany demands Literature. He declares war when I decline. I had been preparing to attack the Minoans with a warrior upgrade once I hooked up my Iron so the timing was ok.
I sign France and Minoans. I destroyed two (size 1) cities and made peace for Cologne, Construction, and 3 gold. France signed peace one turn before the alliance expired. Ottomans held to the alliance and destroyed one city.
I only sent swordsmen to fight, keeping my hoplite at home to avoid triggering my golden age.


150BC Contact with Romans, Egyptians, Carthaginians, Spanish, Babylons, Hittites, Zulu, and Atlantians. It took long enough for France to make contact even though she could see the borders across the water.
Not that I am one to talk, I should have parked a warrior in the north west to keep an eye on the land across the water and make first contact.
Contacts were very slow in my game. I did not get contact with Persia until 280AD.

In 150BC traded Currency to Carthage for Polytheism to enter the middle ages. Exchange my free tech with Russia for Republic.
I got a two turn switch to republic Never had that good before.

I had expected with fifteen other civs that this would be a major land grab frenzy. As it was there was plenty of space.
I thought that having only one lux close by might be a problem. The Minoans got the wool but I am hoping to get it from them with culture pressure. I was easily able to trade with the backward civs for any other luxuries that I wanted.

 

[Dianthus]

Open PTW 1.21f (Euro)

I finally met the conditions for this spoiler in 110 AD. Contacts were slow coming, mainly due to a much slower tech pace than last month.

QSC Summary

I settled at the start position, then built some river hunting warriors to locate a water source for the 2nd city. 2850 BC I settled Sparta :

Athens/Sparta both built granarys, so the 3rd city was slow coming. I made sure to build a more reasonable military this time after being attacked for being too weak in previous GOTM's.

Units
Settlers : 11 (10 settled, 1 roaming)
Warriors : 16
Hoplites : 1
Workers : 9

Citys
4000 BC : Athens
2850 BC : Sparta
1870 BC : Thermopylae
1600 BC : Corinth
1600 BC : Delphi
1550 BC : Pharsalos
1425 BC : Argos
1100 BC : Mycenae
1050 BC : Plebos Nexia
1050 BC : Herakleia

Techs
3150 BC : Pottery (researched)
3100 BC : Alphabet (traded)
1990 BC : Masonry (traded)
1990 BC : Mysticism (traded)
1600 BC : Writing (researched)
1575 BC : Warror Code (traded)
1575 BC : The Wheel (traded)
1575 BC : Horseback Riding (traded)
1575 BC : Iron Working (traded)
1100 BC : Code of Laws (traded)
1100 BC : Philosophy (traded)
1000 BC : Map Making (traded)
1000 BC : Mathematics (traded)

Buildings
2230 BC : Granary in Athens
1870 BC : Granary in Sparta
1200 BC : Barracks in Corinth

Minimap at 1000BC

Post QSC (1000BC-110AD)
The AI's were really researching slowly (just faster than my min research), so I ended up having to ramp up the research rate. I still managed to trade quite a bit, but the AI's generally had very little cash.

One difference between my game and others is that there haven't been any wars (yet). I've kept the backward AI's close to the tech pace (only 2 or 3 behind), not sure if this has anything to do with it.

Most contacts were made via trading, only Germany and the Minoans were found by me. I nearly met the last Civ (Bablyon) via a suicide galley, but one of the other AIs just pipped me to the post.

Minimap at 110AD

Here's the leaderboard at 110AD :

 

[hotrod0823]

It's interesting to see the score and land grab differences btwn the predator and open. At the same point in time I am second or third from the bottom.

My AI opponents in the predator game are much larger and have huge armies. Those deity costs (upkeep NOT production) and extra units are making a big difference. Not sure if its effecting the tech pace or just the speed of expansion.

Hotrod

 

[rabies]

I agree with you 100% Hotrod. I was second to last (after Romans) for a very looong time (till about 50bc) in my predator game...and even after that, it was not until 770 AD that I overtook the massive Atlantis as score leader! By then, he had a score of 1396

 

[cracker]

Rabies,

Let us resist the temptation to discuss issues that go beyond the limits of this ancient age spoiler thread. I know you are not discussing any major spoiler issues but that is not the point. Contain thy enthusiasm and focus all that energy on telling us about why you are the best ancient age player in the world.

 

[Svar]

It's interesting that Atlantis and the Romans determine the early leader in this game. In my game if there was a war between the two it was over before I made contact and Rome must have won because they were much stronger than Atlantis. Atlantis did have a huge culture lead early on but it started fading before 10 AD.

Rome did have a long war with Spain and took about half of their territory. Rome will also go on to be the world leader at one point.

In the games where Rome is eliminated how high does Atlantis get in the scoring?

 

[BretP]

I just got an erroe about an arabian caravel and my game exited. Can any one help me.!!

 

[Lux_willow]

Open 1,29

My first mistake was to go at it in one go... so that by the end of my 2nd playing session I was in 1300AD...

Ok so the start wasn't so bad... I surely had worst and survived.

By 1000BC I had 6 cities, 4 warriors (plus one killed by a barbarian horse wile on a mountain), 2 worker and 1 hoplite.
Techs:alphabet (given) Bronze (given) potery (res) writting (res),
Wheel (trade), Iron (trade), Burrial (trade), Warrior code (trade), Masson (trade). Lit due in 7 turns

4000bc - founded athens, start research on Pot 100%
road lambs, then mine
build warrior1
build hoplite - big mistake!!
mine olives - another mistake
pre-build granary
3000BC - discover potery
start research on writing at 20% (don't know what I was thinking)
lots of squids sighted... I'm not looking forward to building galleys...
Atlantians are the wealthiest nation... I hope I can meet them

2850BC - build granarie, start setler, road olives
2510BC - founded sparta ENE of Athens - bad strategic decision as it turns out... should have gone for the floodplain
meet Volak of the Minoans. They seem frendly... ya right.
2350BC - Settler2 built at Athens start warrior2, trade alphabet for Masson from Vorlak
2310BC sparta builds warrior3 starts producing worker
2230BC Build Thermopilae SSE of Athens - great location... stage of very ahem interesting batles.
2190BC- Athens builds warrior starts settler
1250BC - Athens builds settler3
1910BC - explorer warrior disbands barb camp, uses gold to pay bards to making epic poems of not so great quality
1790BC - Athens builds warrior starts collossus
Build Corinth NW... on Hill ... very bad choice of terrain
1575BC - Meet germans - trade round:
Germans - Alf for WC + TWheel + 30gp
Minoans - Iron for 160 gp
Germans Burrial for 50 gp
1525Bc - Corinth builds warrior start temple - another lapse of judgement
1500bc - research writ start lit at 100%, disorder in Athens
1425bc - disorder in Thermopilae
1375bc- sparta builds warrior
1350bc - disorder in Athens
1300bc - Settler built in Thermopilae
1250bc -Found Delphy on hill near flood plains great location
1100bc - explorer warrior gets killed by horseman barbarian... legends speak of centaurs and what not... can't convince any more greeks to become explorers... must be the side effects of all that sheep meat... must change their diet.
1050bc - near bankupcy research lit at 80%
founded pharsalos (probably built in sparta... who knows)
1025bc Colossus built in Athens
1000bcDelphi builds warrior, get insense conected.
In retrospective I should have built cities in better locations and more workers... it seemed to pay off given the wrougth terrain.

Then some turns later the Minoans demanded all my gold 2gp and I refused... hey there cities were in the middle of the desert and tey had a settler protected by only a warrior near the cotton and one of my warriors.
Then I got cursed by the gods because of my hubris... so the minoans declared war, my warrior got squashed by the escort minoan and some turns later the citizens of Athens were running around like crazy crying "The Minoans are coming, the minoans are coming", the minoan hords just pushed in first Pharsalos, then Delphi were taken without any losses from the invaders, then I rused a Hoplite in Thermopilae. There the hoplites resited for one turn but without support soon the minoans were inside Thermopilae. At this point Athens was defended by 2 warriors and Sparta by one hoplite.
So the minoans go for Sparta, and there at the gates of Sparta the Hoplites defeated wave after wave of Peltasts and archers.
In the meantime I had managed to connect iron near Athens and rushed a Hoplite to defend it.
With the halp of the GA my west coast cities managed to produce 3 warriors every 2 turns now I needed cash for upgrades and a barracs.
Had the blood stains of dead peltasts at the gates of Spart not yet been washed away by the winter rains and the Germans were at the gates of Argos atacking with archers.
A beeline formed from the west territories to the east to fight the Teutonic menace, wrougth farmers Micenae Plebus Naxia and Corinth drafted to wariors and then trained as swordsman at Argos and later at Sparta while the people of Athens now with the Minoan Threat scarce 5 squares away dilighted itself in trying to build a librarie... sure they said it would be a Great Librarie but did they help by sending troops?

At last the Greek armies crying remember Thermopilae at the top of their lungs marched to retake all the territory the Minoans had taken... down to the last sheep.
Finally the Minoans sued for peace... and alas I took the peace offer because near argos there wasn't a single piece of land devoided of enemies: germanic archers, swordsman and spearman, Russian archers and warriors and spearman, French horseman, even some Keltic horseman.
The greeks held firm... there was no room for peace no chance to trade techs... and still they failed to take Argos. The line of Hoplites held the french horseman and one by one they setled to widraw with only a few gp in their pockets for their effort.
But the damage was done. Greece was last on all demographic indicators, supporting an army twice as big than it could confortably support, last to enter the Midevil Ages, last to exit despotism... only got full world map in 1300AD after my medieval units conquered germany... I suppose eventually with a lot of hard work victory wasn't impossible even though most civs were already in the industrial age while the Greeks were only at the beguinning of the Medievil age. So I gave up in 1300AD it just wasn't fun anymore.

A couple of days later I resarted the game at 4000BC just for kicks... uau what a great game... everything going well... and all because i decided to go with pre game decisions I had originally made and of course knowing the terrain and thinking about it