*Spoiler3* - Gotm23-Arabs - End Game Submitted

[MadScot]

Originally posted by Naboo
Our Ministry of Really Cool Ideas notices that the might of Rome can now be isolated from the rest of the continent. A row of fortifications is begun at the border of Sogut which we'll call the Roman Turnstiles. Sogut gets a Cathedral to make sure border shifts don't put our forts in Roman territory.

Actually, you didn't need to bother.

The border forts are all 2 tiles from Sogut, and three from th nearest Roman city. Unless a new city were founded, such that the forts were 2 tiles from it also, there would be no chance whatsoever of the border shifting.
If a city were founded adjacent to the border then you'd lose the forts as soon as it had any culture.

This is because, in the evnet of a cultural control contest between 2 cities, it is the nearest which will win, provided it has any culture to permit control of that tile were the other city not present. Relative cultural strength only determines control for tiles which are equidistant from both cities.

 

[Xerol]

Well, my logging kind of fell apart in the industrial ages, and the only pics I have are post-victory. (I've compiled them all in the attached)

The diplo victory in 1752 AD was nice, but it was also a surprise. About five turns eariler, quite a few turns after the UN was built by the french in paris, I had gifted gold and techs to boost relations, anticipating an UN vote. Previous to that, I was checking the F11 screen every turn, in an attempt to gauge how much population I had relative to others, to see if I would even qualify as a candidate. Early in this period, I found that I was hovering between third and fourth in population, so I went on an irrigating spree on my floodplains, and built hospitals around as well. The higher population points are worth MUCH more than the lower points(pop 12->13 = 130,000 more people, while 6->7 only means 70,000 more...so aqueducts were LOW on the priority list) I joined a few slaves into some of my other cities to bring them up to their top supported population.

Still, all of this wouldn't guarantee anything, so I went on a cavalry and later tank building spree. I had stacked most of them up(45 units total) in a former roman city(culture-flipped to me) and was preparing a RoP with the ottomans to waste what's left of rome. After obtaining victory by diplomacy, I continued to play(but i'm barely to 1800) and completely annihalated rome in a few turns with the enormous stacks of cavalry.

Anyway, back to this game. The amounts and locations of resources were astounding, although there was relatively less rubber. Coal and Iron were abundant in the former Carthinigan hills, but none of the captured cities were in a good position for an iron works, and any city that would have been would have had a maximum population of 7 or 8, making the doubled production relatively worthless, and the two cities i would have to abandon would have been able to support over 25 pop together, with much higher production.
One of the former Carthage cities was in a GREAT place with four wool on hills surrounding the city. This became my FP site, and if allowed to fully develop, it would have had over 100 shields with just a factory & power plant.

Speaking of power plants, getting Hoover Dam would have been great, but I was too far behind in tech to get it. France took it, and I considered going to war over it, but the tech lead was so great that I would have been facing MI by the time my cavalry got to their front door. As you can see at the top of the image, I was four turns from Radio. But at least I wasn't last. The Zulu were crippled by an early war, and were at least 4-5 behind me at the end of the game. I have no idea what happened to Spain, except that the romans had captured many of their cities(quite a few of which flipped to me) including Madrid, which somehow had no cultural improvements but still had its Palace in the late middle ages after flipping back to Spain.

And speaking of culture, I had managed to keep up enough from improvements to hang around the same level as France(the leader) by the end of the game. India and Egypt were also up there a bit, but I managed to have my capital as the Fourth best cultural city(see F11 screen) even without any wonders.

To explain the picture:

1) Voting results. Ceasar wasn't having a very good day, as he was at war with a good portion of the world(and I was prepared to join in as well...but I won the UN vote before I could). Joining into a war with Rome probably would have boosted my popularity even higher, due to the "common enemies" boost to relations.

2) My economy/tech window. The research rate is (3.7.0) it's kinda cut off at the top.

3) Top four cities. (From F11 screen)

4) Scores for all civs. I got more points from the year bonus than from the actual game.

5) Other side of the F11 screen. You can get an idea of how balanced the game was since I had top land area. Almost every civ had a strength and weakness. Here's what I observed:
France: Good culture/tech, relatively small military.
India: Tech/Military, Less culture
Egypt: All military.

6) Score, power, culture graphs. My advancement was more due to other civs weakening than from my expansion, although I had at least 6 culture flips in the Industrial ages that contributed a lot to my territorial gains, as well as pushing the borders back a ton with culture too. In my "extended game" I've taken over as the world culture leader, after rushing temples and cathedrals in the captured roman cities.

7) Saliddin the Lion-Hearted. This is much higher than any "award" I've ever gotten on this screen, and at 2617, my top score on my HoF.

Great game, great map, great overall! Is it possible, after the scores are all locked in, to release this map as a randomly playable map? I'd like to try this with other civs & combinations(a 1-on-1 deathmatch(conquest or domination victory only) comes to mind by looking at this map)

 

[Naboo]

Originally posted by MadScot


...in the event of a cultural control contest between 2 cities, it is the nearest which will win, provided it has any culture to permit control of that tile were the other city not present. Relative cultural strength only determines control for tiles which are equidistant from both cities.

Thanks MadScot, that will take some of the Voodoo away from my cultural tactics!

 

[Nightfa11]

Culture in my game:

For several hundred years, I culture pushed this town:

Left him with two squares....

And he NEVER flipped. The screenshot is from the final turn of the game. Here's the culture graph. Lots more culture than the Ottomans and only one flip

And I used the ottomans as my flunkys for the whole game. From the AA to the MA, we had a ROP and never had any problems. We mutually wiped out the Romans (they had pyramids...heh). I built my FP in Rome and had no corruption issues. I've found that a wide distance between FP and Palace makes things easier. I'm not sure if that's due to the RCP bug or some other reason, but I felt that corruption was better in this game than in any of my previous games. Here's a minimap.

EDIT: Finish in 1545...space race

 

[dojoboy]

Originally posted by Nightfa11
Culture in my game:

For several hundred years, I culture pushed this town:

OMG, I've never seen anything like this before. Amazing the town never flipped.

 

[Xerol]

Yes...WOW at that failure to flip...try playing on and see if it ever does...

 

[rrau]

conquests

Entered IA about 1200ad. Researched to SM as fast as possible.

During research, was building rails, and prebuilding for ToE.

1365 Spain declared war on France (tech leader)

1435 Build ToE

France Signs many MMA's and by 1440, the whole world except the arabs were at war with Spain and Zulu who have mmp.

During this turn, I trade almost to tech parity. I lack refining which the French have, but I still have a monopoly on AT and Electronics. Decide to build a factory then go for Hoover's as I don't have a prebuild available & can get a factory in 5 turns.

Unfortunately, the WWI only lasted about 20 turns, I was hoping for a larger tech lead

Continue to focus on techs to try for diplomatic or Space win.

In 1630, France declares war on me out of the blue She went for some very lightly fortified cities. Fortunately I had rails and could move troops, but still ended up loosing 4 cities in the interturn

Also in 1630, I trade techs and gold for MMP's from all other civs and wait for her to attack as Joan has MMP's in place and I want them to flip to me!!

1630 was a very busy year as I also entered MA at the end of this turn.

1635 Retook 3 of my cities, but had widespread rioting in about half of my cities, but didn't have a revolution. I turn on governing to keep riots to a minimum

1650 Ulthman created (1st leader - finally) Built army

1660 Recapture my 4th city, negotiate ROP with Persia to carry war to France. Planted a spy in france , but learn I have only about 50 units to her approx 90 units (but 12 of mine are tanks and only 4 of hers are tanks)

1766 I built UN, but even though I am not warring with anyone but France, relations are not good with the international community, so no vote.

1798 Planted a spy in Rome & stole Synthetic Fibers from Rome

1810 Finished researching SF

1818 Stole Nuclear Power from Rome (what's up with the espionage this game I only tried to plant 2 spies and steal 2 techs to this point and they've all been successfull - I've never had this good of luck with the RNG!) At this point, I have a monopoly on SF and miniaturization. Will start Apollo's. Will start researching satellites, hoping someone else will research laser.

1834 My first Tac Nuke is done, and start building some ICBM's - hopefully I won't need to nuke anyones cities to keep them from completing the Space Ship.

Somewhere prior to 1834, I made peace with Joan, and this turn she had the gall to ask for a MMP while still at war with most of the world and almost ready to be killed off Needless to say, she was refused!

1836 Rome has laser, but won't trade for Miniaturization and I can't afford to steal it either Therefore, I give up my monopoly on SF and trade SF and Min for Laser, WM, 4688g, and 176gpt

1846 I know all techs for SSS and change some city productions and stop research.

1856 SS win with Firaxis score of 2583 (my earliest ever SS win)

Well, this is my second conquest win, and while they have been in the lower half scorewise, this game seemed easier (either I was phenomonally lucky with RNG or I've improved - probably was luck as other Monarch level games are still hard). Regardless, I think next month, I'll try open and see how I do.

 

[Dianthus]

Originally posted by Nightfa11
For several hundred years, I culture pushed this town:

Left him with two squares....

How close was Bursa to the Ottoman Capital and your capital? This makes quite a big difference to the flip probability. Take a look at DaveMcW's HTML Culture Flip Calc. With the following settings :
Culture ratio = "in awe of"
Foreign tiles = 19
Who Owns the city? = Enemy
Who built the most culture in the city? = Enemy
Distance from my capital (relative to the enemy capital) = very far
Garrison = 1

There's only a 0.71% chance of flipping next turn.


With :
Distance from my capital (relative to the enemy capital) = very close

There's an 11.32% chance of flipping next turn.

[NOTE I'm not totally sure I've set that up right (I.e. should Foreign tiles be 7?), but it still clearly shows the affect of distance from capital on culture flipping]

 

[ltccone]

At the dawn of the IA, I looked for a new target. The Zulus were the weakest, so I went after them. I made a ROP with Egypt (I had a ROP and MPP with Carthage already). They were tougher than I thought. They were importing SP from somewhere, so they had cavalry. But I had more and eventually prevailed. Carthage (because of the MPP they declared war) only captured one city.

After the Zulus were history I needed another target. The Indians were the weakest, but they had infantry. As soon as I had built enough tanks I attacked. To keep Carthage from "helping" I put a string of workers across the Indian peninsula to keep them out.

India went down fast. They had no cavalry or tanks, just infantry.

France was getting way too powerful. They were the culture leader. They were even with me on tech, even though I had many more cities. So in preparation I made a MPP with Spain and Egypt. Spain also had a MPP with France.

As I was bulding up my forces France and I made it to the modern age. We both got the computer tech quickly. I upgraded all my Infantry to MI. They were going to be my next target, beforte they built nukes.

But then Carthage upset the applecart. They broke their MPP and attacked me out of the blue. All of my MPPs got them at war with everyone but the French. But Carthage attacked Spain, and that brought in France. Against the world, they didn't last long. I captued all of their cities, except two the French took.

The French were in my territory, so I told them to leave. Instead they declared war! And since they were in my territory, Spain declared war on France.

The French were tough with MI. But they lost their rubber because of the war, so they couldn't build more. They also couldn't build any more tanks. I took their outlying, isolated cities quickly. Spain and Egypt weren't doing much, but they tied up French troops.

I took their cities one by one with massed artillery. When their cities fell I razed them because of their high culture, and built my own. I only made one exception for a city that had several wonders.

I pounded Paris with 45 artillery units, preping for an attack the next turn. When I hit the end turn button one of my city's culture expanded. That was enough to give me a Domination victory. I wish Paris would have fallen first though!

 

[laotseu]

Time to get industrious

Previous spoiler

Still in my first GOTM. Still having loads of fun. I appreciate this a lot. Big thanks to Cracker and team.

At the end of the Medieval Age, I had managed to muster some kind of army but was unable to do mush with it. I did take a few Ottoman cities and 4 or 5 from Carthage but that’s was about it. I took a few cities from the Roman but was stopped short by their riflemen. I took Edirne from the Roman but it flip back to them. I took the city again in 1310 and it flipped back again in 1385. I have learned to starve the newly conquered city to prevent that since then...

The situation in 1385

I decided to truly go the industrial way. The reasoning was this: I’m behind in tech. but I have good big cities. I can boost their production and build a real army. I researched Nationalism, Steam Power and the Industrialisation. I went on to get the hospital and then directly to the Replacement part. During my building phase, Spain and Carthage get rid of Persia.

Around 1600, I get the RP and start build/upgrading Infantries and Artilleries. In 1625, I take the Edirne for the third time. From 1625 to 1774, I concentrate on the Roman. Meanwhile, Egypt and France are at War with Spain and India. When I capture the first Roman city in 1774, Spain and India are having difficulties with the France, Egypt and Carthage. I also join the fun against Spain that goes the way of the dodo in 1796. Hannibal bites the dust in 1798. With my allies, I start working on India. I capture Delhi in 1816 and Gandhi is no more.

1745

1798

I have a very big empire now but France and Egypt are still having two or three techs on me. I decide to do another building phase. I want the Modern Wonders to prevent the AI from controlling the diplomacy victory. I still want to win by domination or conquest.

One lucky break, France has no oil and Egypt have no Uranium. This allows me to catch with them, and build all the modern Wonders before them. I’m building a mighty army, just missing the Modern Armors when I realise that my culture is already at 78000 and going up by around 500 each turn... If I want to do a domination victory, I better start soon . And so I start.

In 1955, Egypt is no longer present on the continent (they still have a little city in the Northern Island), beginning of the war with the Zulus.
In 1957, the Zulus have no cities left (they still have one settler somewhere), beginning of the war with the French. I use ROP rape for the first time in the game.
In the turn between 1959 and 1960, I have a domination victory.

1959

Interesting fact: I got my first Great Leader in 1936. Long after it could have been of any real help to me.

In 1960, the Firaxis score is 3810, the culture score is 95768 and I think I have a shot at being the latest domination victory of GOTM 23 .

Question: I read in the forum that good players stop taking the cities and start raising them before they reach domination limit in order to win conquest style. Is there a way to know when we are near that limit?

Question 2: In theory, this game qualifies as a Tournament game. Do I have to register somewhere for the tournament or the simple fact of submitting GOTM 23 is enough? I plan on playing the 5-6 France game.

This was real fun and I think I’m learning a lot. Thanks a lot to everyone that makes this possible.

 

[Dianthus]

Originally posted by laotseu
In 1960, the Firaxis score is 3810, the culture score is 95768 and I think I have a shot at being the latest domination victory of GOTM 23 .

Well done laotseu , winning on your 1st GOTM attempt is good no matter how late. I didn't win a GOTM until my 4th attempt!

Originally posted by laotseu
Question: I read in the forum that good players stop taking the cities and start raising them before they reach domination limit in order to win conquest style. Is there a way to know when we are near that limit?

Most players use chiefpaco's MapStat over in the Civ3 - Creation & Customization->Utility Programs forum.

Originally posted by laotseu
Question 2: In theory, this game qualifies as a Tournament game. Do I have to register somewhere for the tournament or the simple fact of submitting GOTM 23 is enough? I plan on playing the 5-6 France game.

No registration required, just submit with the required victory condition. Good luck in 5-6!

 

[Yurian]

Predator1.21

I don't like play to conquest or domination.
However it was necessary to make it - rules are those.
Results:
2 leaders.
290 AD Domination victory, 8047 Firaxis Score.

 

[Txurce]

Yurian, other than posting in the wrong thread, it sounds like you played a perfect game. Would you tell us more about it?

 

[Yurian]

Sorry.
Games at night do not lead up to goods.

 

[Offa]

Originally posted by Yurian
Predator1.21

2 leaders.
290 AD Domination victory, 8047 Firaxis Score.

Superb result. While it is interesting that you had 2 leaders, even more information about what was obviously a pretty great game would be lapped up by learners like me.

 

[Karasu]

Civ3 1.29f, Open

For the first time, submitted and ready to post a short spoiler before the very last day!

First of all, to all those who managed those unbeliavably early wins...
Then, my little game: The Ancient Age

After that, not a lot happened until about 400 AD.
I was basically preparing for a massive Cataphract attack to all known civs, building horsemen and fighting some skirmishes while waiting for Chivalry. Compared to many other players, I realize that I took too slow an approach to this tech.

A great leader came out during this period -the second of three, the third one coming around a few turns before the end and thus totally useless. I kept him for Leonardo, which was built in Rome in 490 AD.

This is the situation at the beginning. My initial attack was on Egypt (who had Sun Tzu) to the South and to France (were ahead in tech), through Persia, to the north. At this time, I had about 75 Cataphracts.
The two armies would later on converge on Zulus and Spain who, in the meantime, were useful allied agains the first adversaries.
India was way behind in tech and had just started expanding a bit, so they were kept as the later target of another stack of Cataphract that I was building in the meantime.

I decided to get a Conquest victory -mainly because I like the Diplo advisor once all civs are gone ("make more friends"... ), so I razed most of the cities I initially conquered, and didn't bother settling the empty spaces. This is going to lower my score somewhat, but I was sure I would not compete for a top spot anyway...

The first egyptian cities were conquered easily -surprisingly enough, some of their War Chariots managed to butcher a few of my Cataphracts on their only counterattack...
Thebes, with Sun Tzu, was obviously kept. By 560 AD they were left with a couple of cities that I was hoping the Zulus would attack en masse thus weakinening their borders.
The same fate had occurred to Xerxes, with Gandhi attacking him with Swordsmen.

In 590 AD the Zulus solve my problems by demanding Chivalry...
I razed a few small Zulu cities, but those Impis really look like they have a defensive bonus against Cataphracts...

In 600 AD Paris falls. The French were the most advanced of the AIs, but had too small a military... And, within three turns, all their Iron and Horse sources were mercilessly disconnected.

India discovered Chivalry in the meantime -earlier than I expected. I hurried the attack on them, fearing the appearance of War Elephants. Quite surprisingly, they never built a single one...

In 660 AD the attack on India and Carthage begins.
Carthage is gone in two turns, and the Zulu Iron sources are disconnected.
Another couple of turns later, the Zulus are left with two small cities on the western edge of the continent.

In 720 AD I declare war on Spain, disconnect their Iron and conquest all cities but three.
Three turns later they are wiped, as well as India.

In 760 AD a city culture-flips to the Zulus, but is promptly reconquered; their last city falls.

Game over. And my first victory before 1000 AD... :jump:

 

[laotseu]

Originally posted by Dianthus

Well done laotseu , winning on your 1st GOTM attempt is good no matter how late. I didn't win a GOTM until my 4th attempt!

Thanks but I really don't think it was that good a game. I'm a "hang in there" type of player. I'm really amased at the result of the leading players in this forum.

I'm not sure I can ever get to that level but I think my game will improve. There are such wonderful resources here.

And thanks for the answers you provided Dianthus.

 

[Boyd]

Mine was a crazy game... domination in 1860 AD with firaxis 4846 for a Jason of 5076!

My best yet! (Damned excited, I am!)

I only forced one war and that was with Persia right in 1858 whose loss of Gordium gave me the final tiles needed.

i would have won about 30 turns earlier but I completely misjudged the amount of persian territory I would need so I juiced up my cities and waited to build about 40 tanks. Three tank armies were poised to crush southern Persia and whop... domination. Humph.

Took a lesson from the pros and built loads of horsemen and kept them in my core cities until I had reached chivalry (plus lots of $) and did a mass upgrade to Cataphracts.

Essentially, every one else was declaring war on me... Egyptians, Ottomans, Romans, Zulu, Spain (again and again, like an annoying mosquito... probably modded to really dislike the Arabs) and finally France and India.

France was reduced to the island

All of the zulu lands were mine (with one city exception) along with Egypt. Carthage, Persia and I divided up the Indians. Ottomans (FP in their lands near Rome) and Rome all falling to my sword with the exception of the last roman outpost leagues away by India where Cathage finally dispatched them.

Maintained a tech lead from the middle of the middle ages on by either direct assault or bankrupting my allies. Persia was spending over 120gpt on luxuries and tech.

Never went to war with Carthage and basically they were surrounded by a sea of pink. Nice vassals, er, I mean allies.

The only problem with this kind of game is that at a certain poin tvictory is inevitable and the game becomes a serious of bombards and assaults.

Otherwise, loved the terrain, loved the challenge, LOVED the Cataphract! Great job cracker & co.

And by the way, thanks to all those who take the time to post and pass on their experiences and tactics. My play has improved greatly.

Ciao

 

[a space oddity]

Open, 1.21


Hah, I finally made it, phew.

Let me just start by telling you guys I won by Domination. I really aimed for an early date this time, but it seems my lazy troops are only effective when they are being transported by rails.
I should them into shape before I will be able to win in the early ADs.

My finish date is 1425AD with a Firaxis score of 5771.

Experience in the SGs has learned you don’t need to do any science yourself, and can easily rely on the others and your purse, so I concentrated on units and expansion. I hoped I would get just enough leaders for SunTzu’s and a Palace jump. The first leader was just in time for SunTzu [dance] but the second didn’t happen until very late in the game. By then I already started building it myself and was about half way. This had its repercussion on my purse and the ability to buy the more expensive techs.

Looking back an other mistake I made was city density. It was never my intention to enter the industrial age, so each city could work a maximum of 12 tiles, the average city had more, it is hard to break old habits... .

What did go right was the settler factory in Mecca. Like LKendter I moved the settler (which I almost never do but this time you had to) and was able to have Mecca spit out Settlers every 4 turns unattended throughout the game. Only the Golden Age spoiled it and I had to build a pike every so often and it grew to size 7 when I forgot.

In the last part of the game the AI had rifles, so I sighed RoPs to let their forces through so they could soften up each other for me. As soon as cities fell, I settled in between, taking them if They where owned by either the Romans or the Indians. The French were my friends, did almost all the science for me.

Here's how that went:

 

[Yndy]

I was surprised to see I scored over 10,000 Jason points, so I complied some other scores as well. This is the result but having been in a rush I fear I might have missed some.

[I]Name	Finish date	Firaxis	Jason	Class		Victory[/I]
Yurian	290AD		8047	11099	Predator	Domination
Kuningas580AD		7662	10638	Open		Domination
tao	720AD		7405	10366	Predator	Domination
acivguy	710AD		7361	10340	open		Domination
Yndy	670AD		7273	10300	Predator	Domination
akots	980AD		7296	10133	Predator	Domination
smackster1160AD		5681	8843	Open		Domination
Melifluous1375AD	5454	8117	open		Domination
a space oddity1425AD	5771	8107	Open		Domination
Boyd	1860AD		4846	5076	Open		Domination
QwerySoft1752AD		2617	4720	Open		Diplomatic
dojoboy	1862AD		4033	4464	Open		Domination
burkina	1778AD		2411	4244	Conquest	Diplomatic
keiselhorn1886AD	3934	4172	Open		Domination
rrau	1856AD		2583	3533	Conquest	SS
latoseu	1960AD		3810	3439	Conquest	Domination
SewerStarFish1880AD	2755	3397	Open		Diplomatic
Snaga	230AD				Predator	Conquest
SirPleb	470AD				Predator	Domination
txurce	520AD				Open		Domination
gozpel	560AD				Open		Domination
Offa	620AD				open		Conquest
Hurricane760AD				open		Domination
Karasu	760AD				Open		Conquest
samildanach790AD			open		Conquest
rabies	800AD				Predator	Domination
Greebley1140AD				Open		Domination
CdB	1220AD				Open		Domination
MadScot	1230AD				Open		Domination
HookEmHorns1575AD			Open		Diplomatic
fourknee1760AD				Open		Conquest
Naboo	1898AD				Open		Domination