*Spoiler4* Gotm21-Melee - End Game Submitted

Thanks cracker, I appreciate it. I also want to thank you for a great GOTM scenario.

All too often, even outside the realm of Civ, I tend to take the safe road. I knew when I decided to play the GOTM that there would be a lot of things changed, and that I would have to learn to deal with the unknown as it appeared. Considering those challenges & my inexperience, I can honestly say that this was one of my favorite games of all time. I learned a lot, but more importantly, I had a great time playing.

Thanks again :worship: :D
 
I was one of the unfortunate few who hit a game-freeze problem. Since I never qualified for any of the spoilers, and too late for me to finish even if an 11th hour fix is found, I'll post here.

I decided to go heavy on military early on, which is unusual for me. But since I've had bad experiences with barbarians at any but the lowest 2 settings I wanted to eliminate that problem. Also since the consensus was that exploration was the key to this scenario I felt an urge to be contrarian :)

Early game went ok, but before Map Making I "lost contact with the peloton" ;). Ok, so everyone was right - with so many civs, I should have done a better job at making contacts and trading wisely. But, a war with Minoans did yield a Golden Age and some territory. Since Minoans built the Great Library I had hopes that my military gambit might pay off handsomely. I negotiated peace -- my plan was to take maximum advantage of the Golden Age to increase my military power and then capture the GL and a good portion of Minoans territory.

I was nearly poised to begin the glorious offensive when Alas, at 260AD (if I recall), the freeze hit.

Paraphrasing Cracker, this rare freeze seemed to have something to do with being so far "behind" in the game. Ouch! :eek: I'm sure there was no offense intended, and none taken. The brilliance of my "stragety" had yet to manifest :lol: :p

I'm only disappointed to not discover whether or not my gambit would have succeeded. It occurred to me that the tech pace had accelerated so rapidly that Education might have already been discovered before I got my hands on the GL. And if that failed I would have surely been in a world of hurt. If anyone has means to crack open my save file and see, I'd appreciate knowing.

Here's the save...

the behinder I get...
 
From SirPleb:
"At the start of the Industrial Age I'd guessed that the AI's wouldn't be able to learn any further required techs. But after a while I decided to try it anyway. I was confident I could maintain four turn research for the rest of the game. The only way to improve my finish date would be to squeeze research out of a rival. I laid out the ambitious goal of getting two required IA techs out of them. Since they were still working on Nationalism (BTW, I don't think it makes a big difference if that's one's free tech or not - if it is, the AIs can work on other stuff, if it isn't they'll fixate on it first, losing one other tech they might have worked on), and I'd just learned Replaceable Parts, that determined my plan. I picked Spain, Zulu, Persia, Carthage, and Rome as potential helpers. I gave them luxuries and didn't take any more of their gold. I gave them Electricity so they'd start on Replaceable Parts if they finished Nationalism. I researched to Combustion and then gave my helpers Combustion and Replaceable Parts, hoping they'd go for Mass Production and Flight. I finished off the bottom techs with fingers crossed."

I tried exactly the same strategy, with the exception of giving them lots of luxuries. I will have to remember that. I gave them all the techs throughout the Industrial Age, but never got one tech from the AI, except for Flight and at that time I was only 2 turns away from it myself. See my post in Spoiler 3:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1114873#post1114873

I think that strategy would work better if the AI wasn't so fixated on discovering Communism and Espionage after they get Nationalism. They spend so much time researching those 3 techs that by the time they get them you have slingshot yourself to Hoover Dam with the TOE and are way ahead of them.
 
I think I'm the first on this thread, after reading all the excellently compiled posts, stating that I lost (looking for the sympathy vote now, whenever you guys are ready to dish it out).

I used to consider myself as a damned good player of CIV and CIV2, and having won many games on levels up to Emporer, pretty useful at CIV3. I now bow down and pay homage to all you guys (and gals) who have wiped the floor with the GOTM this month.

The likes of DaveMcW (awesome), Sir Pleb (astronomical score) and so many of you other guys are just too damned good.

I posted my final save on about the 7th July after having a whale of a time on my first GOTM. The rest of this month has dragged and dragged without it (I've even replayed it after posting and still couldn't win - although I destroyed the Ottomans this time) and I had hoped to see some write-ups about the next event by now. I can't wait to sink my teeth into that one. That's no criticism, Cracker - I'm just itching to murder a few CIVs for revenge.

However, back to my experience of GOTM#21. I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed it. It was quite a nervy experience at times.

Should I attack the Minoans?
Did I start building the GL too late?
The Germans are getting annoying now - should I declare war on them?

Those type of questions in the earlier stages were constantly pinging around my skull. I suppose the answer to all three were 'yes' and I suppose I lost as a result of not resolving all 3 questions early on.

There were many issues that could have won me the game. But I'm not sad or bitter. In fact, I'm more determined to 'win' next time 'round. I don't care about my 'Firaxis score' or 'how soon' I did it. I just want to record a win on one of the GOTMs.

Any of you guys, remember this feeling? It's gonna be such a thrill when it happens - like it must have been for many of you who have posted on this thread.

I'm outside looking in...but not for long.

Back to my game...mad-bax posted that he almost lost to the Romans as he hadn't realised that they were that advanced or hadn't constructed so much of the spaceship.

I had justed completed researching Rocketry when they launched in 1772AD - yes, I know it's already later than most of you guys but I'd been on the wrong end of a battle with the Ottomans, Germans, Hittites and Celts in MA and lost about 6 size 12 cities including Athens - mainly to the Celts.

Because I hadn't used any of the close city building ideas (I used the knight's move away from the edge of the city radius, nice tidy planning theory - what strategem is this?), I was reduced to about 10 cities, with 3 being in a pocket above the great lake - seperated from the main core of my cities - for quite some time, until I gave into the tribute demands for each of the CIVs I was at war with.

At this stage, I was clinging on - hopelessly behind in the science race now and now reduced to a shell of my former splendour. All looked lost. I was almost ready to throw in the towel and was starting to accept that I was going to have to post a very poor score in this months GOTM.

Then after giving into the tribute demands, I pulled myself away from the monitor, went outside and had a smoke, and then it dawned on me. If I could just keep the other CIVs from declaring war against me, I could get my cities to flip back (hopefully) whilst concentrating on trying to claw back the deficit in the science race. Afterall, this was, as guided by Cracker's descriptive write-up, that it was the goal of the GOTM, if possible, to win the Space Race. I still had time. I just needed to get some science trades going and...well, you never know.

From 1750AD, I was clocking how well the other CIVs were doing against me on the Firaxis score. I had the 6th largest score jump per turn despite being in 14th place of the board.

By the time the Romans launched, I had the the joint 4th largest score jump per turn and was up to 8th place (I think) on the board.

I was closing in on the leaders - fast. Fast - but too late in the day. OK, I had only just cleared Rocketry but up to the Roman launch, I had no idea that any spaceships had been started.

I had embassies with all the CIVs but I hadn't placed spies in any of the embassies. And obviously that cost me. I guess I was wrapped up in catching up. I had seen that some of the other CIVs had been about 6 advances ahead of me but I had no idea I was that far behind.

It was a pity that it ended so abruptly. I had reduced over half of the remaining cities down to 0gp - with some good trading going on - and I felt as though I could make the Space Race victory.

Alas...

I look forward to a 'win' of some desciption next GOTM...(hopefully)
 
@Deadloss: seems to me you where ready to come out of a hole, so... well done. Everyone here who confesses a loss is a winner to me, anyway. Furthermore it's the losses from which you learn the most, so, yeah, why not a win next month :)
 
Originally posted by zagnut
I think that strategy would work better if the AI wasn't so fixated on discovering Communism and Espionage after they get Nationalism. They spend so much time researching those 3 techs that by the time they get them you have slingshot yourself to Hoover Dam with the TOE and are way ahead of them.
Zagnut, maybe you know this already and tried it, but just in case: Did you try to guide the AIs based on the info in "what will the AI research next"?

For instance, if when the AIs learn Nationalism their available techs to choose next are Communism, Espionage, The Corporation, Electricity, and Medicine, they might go for any of them. They're a bit more likely to go for Communism, The Corporation, or Electricity than the others.
OTOH, if all their choices are the same except that you give them Electricity before they finish Nationalism, it is nearly a certainty they'll go for Replaceable Parts.
Or if you gave them The Corporation instead, odds are fairly good they'd go for Refining next.
By looking through their options and choosing what to gift them you can influence the odds a fair bit.
I found Ambiorix's spreadsheet very helpful in making it easier to predict the likely paths.

Another thought: Could you have delayed your ToE without risking another Civ getting it first? If you could have delayed it until Modern Times then you'd have spent at least 8 more turns researching in the Industrial Age, and that might have given the AIs time to learn Flight before you had to research it...
 
[ptw] 1.21f Open

As I hit the second half of the age of Industry, the Greek war machine had just purged the home continent. With the advent of motorized transportation, I looked to the other continents to fulfill Greece's desire for territory.

Greece versus the world (1545-1710)

With Greece already into the Modern Age and the rest of the world at least a half an age behind, 40 some tanks and a cavalry army landed near Hadrumentum. Meanwhile, on the Atlantian continent, tanks were starting to be airlifted for a future invasion via a city we captured from the Minoans ages ago.
On the Carthigian frontline, my tanks encountered nothing beyond riflemen and cavalry. Naturally, Carthage fell fairly quickly, with Persia inflicting the final blow in 1615 AD. In 1585, the GL Hector made a triumphant return, discovering the Cure for Cancer in Athens in 1610 AD. Also during this period the Internet was created in Corinth in 1600 AD. Longevity was also created around this time, but my historians were daft enough not to write down when, and are now too lazy to look it up. :blush:
While the whole Carthage campaign was going, the Atlantians beat me to the punch, and declared war on me in 1565. The war was a difficult one, with my nation begining to strain under severe war weariness. Nonetheless, the troops fought on until Atlantis was reduced to two cities, one of which was on the continent. The only reason my tanks spared the last Atlantian foothold was the fact that Isabella decided to firmly wedge her dagger into my back in 1640.
She struck my very very lightly defended south Atlantian possesions, taking several cities at once. It took several turns before my tanks reclaimed the cities and managed to go on the offensive.
All the while during the Spanish war, I was also fighting Persia and Egypt, who declared war via a MPP in 1635. I took nearly all of Cleo's fringe cities and a chunk of her core. I did next to nothing to Xerxes, as I didn't have the resources to launch another attack on a thrid continent. At around 1655, the war weariness was becoming next to unbearable, so I decided I was going to try to draw up some peace treaties, and wait for my cultural victory (I had 80,000 already, gaining around 1300/turn). I managed to make peace with Egypt in 1655, but that was not to last. Persia pushed me over the edge by getting Babylon and Egypt back into MPP's, bringing them in against me. At that point I decided if my republic collapses, so be it. I pushed forward on all fronts with the luxury slider at around 50%. After many battles, a war weary Greek nation achieved Domination in 1710. Not much for a quick vicotry, but I'm glad to get it finshed up finally.

Various Odds & Ends

Great Leaders were wild in this game. After the aforementioned return of Hector, I experienced more returns. They went something like this:
Ulysess II in 1635: Tank Army
Jason II in 1650: Airport in Rome
Aeson II in 1660: Manhattan Project in Rome
Ajax II in 1665: Factory in Rome
Pyrrhus III in 1675: Destroyed by the Spanish
Hector III in 1705: Hospital in Carthage

I also built the UN in 1705. It was almost tempting to call a vote and see if I could get the coveted green ambulance :smoke:

Total Time: 67 hours, 34 minutes, 7 seconds
Firaxis Score:7495
Jason Score:6199
 
PTW 1.21 Predator

I finished as predicted in Spoiler #3. No surprises. Spacerace victory in 1220AD. Firaxis score of 7442 which gives a Jason score of 8999. (That seems low to me, but whatever. I basically didn't expand beyond my original territory plus Germany and part of Russia, until I got Modern Armor in 940AD. I upgraded in 940AD, attacked France and Ottomans in 950AD, Minoans in 960AD, Russia and Celts in 990AD, Hittites in 1020AD, Egypt in 1040AD. By 1050AD they were all conquered except for a few scattered cities too far away to get to. I left the rest of the AIs alone until the end of the game. I also left Computers to the very end, hoping against hope one of the AIs would get it for me, but of course that didn't happen.

I'm quite satisfied with my game, except for the one blunder of building TOE too early, and losing the chance to get Replaceable Parts from the AIs. If I'd done that right, I could have launched in 1180AD.
 
Originally posted by SirPleb
For instance, if when the AIs learn Nationalism their available techs to choose next are Communism, Espionage, The Corporation, Electricity, and Medicine, they might go for any of them. They're a bit more likely to go for Communism, The Corporation, or Electricity than the others.
OTOH, if all their choices are the same except that you give them Electricity before they finish Nationalism, it is nearly a certainty they'll go for Replaceable Parts.
Or if you gave them The Corporation instead, odds are fairly good they'd go for Refining next.

My notes on this are a little hazy. They say things like "gifted various techs to the weaker civs". I know that at one point I gave both Electricity and Industrialization to all of the other civs within 2 turns. However, I think the problem I had was that I didn't gift these key techs to them until after they had already discovered Nationalism. They then started on Communism or Espionage and I had lost the chance to get them to research some of the better techs.

I am sure I could have delayed getting TOE. I took it right away from a pre-build, but perhaps it would have been better to delay it as you suggest. That is good advice. It's not always necessary to get the Wonder ASAP, just to get it at some point.
 
Hiya fellow Civvers,

I have finished my game of the month, but during the game something very curious happened.
In 530 AD I was preparing to jump my Palace to the former German city of Frankfurt.

I counted all parameters just like the way DaveMcW specified in his strategyarticle on palace jumping. I have jumped palaces before and it has never failed me.

This time it did not go the way I had planned it to go. The situation is as follows:

athensbewerkt.jpg


The city on the top left corner of the square is athens. I am going to abandon it this turn.

I want the capitol to jump to Frankfurt. Here is the situation around Frankfurt:
Frankfurtbewerkt.jpg

Now let's count cities and city size:

Frankfurt has 12 citizens, 11 greek citizens and 1 german:

Ffurtinside.jpg


There are 16 cities in the 17X17 square around Frankfurt. So Frankfurt has a score of 11+1/3+16*1/3 = 16 and 2/3.

So I abandon Athens and... it jumps to Mycenae. This is the city in the center of the first picture. Let''s count points for Mycenae then. I come to 9 pop points and 19 cities. Giving a score of 9+19*1/3 = 15 and 1/3. :confused:

At this point I was really confused so I abandoned Mycenae as well. And now the palace jumped to Plebox Nexia!!!!

Here is the situation around Plebos Nexia:
Mycenaebewerkt.jpg


Counting again: There are 11 population points and 10 cities in the 17X17 square. This means 14 and 1/3 points.

After I abandoned Plebos Nexia too, the palace did jump to Frankfurt, but I do not understand why!!

Maybe any of you cracks can help me with this??
 
The age of the city is obviously playing a part here. I'm not sure of specifics, but I wouldn't recommend jumping that late in the game, unless it is to one of the core starting cities of another Civ...maybe guess-timate a 15% point increase to Frankfurt since it's much younger in age...I dunno.
 
Does the age of the city count then?

I thought this only applied if there was a tie.

And it isn't much younger. After all the Germans built it in 2190 BC

Whereas my own cities are much younger: built in 1375 and 1325 bc
 
What else could it be? We know it's a tie-breaker factor...maybe the age bonus is so small it's only used as a tie-breaker early in the game, but as time goes by, it actually reveals itself as another variable?
 
It is a possibility, yes. Nevertheless plebus Nexia scored only 14,33 while frankfurt scored 16,667

And I have done jumps that were even later in the game.

I thought that maybe the 17X17 square is mapsize dependent?
 
Well, I finnally won a gotm on my 5th try:). I did not think I was going to have much time to finish but I got it done this morning.

Spacerace in 1750AD
4283 score, Jason is 4900

It was a great game to play.

I just took the land from the Minoans and Germans and a little bit of Celtic land during some huge world wars, (I was not part of them, no mpp's or MA's) at the end of the game, the Minoans Germans Russians, Celts and Romans were gone from the game in that order. I took the lead in techs and score in the IA and never looked back. I was also raking in tons O'gold.

Great game, I thought I would never finish.

I FINNALY WON A GOTM!!!!
 
Congrats OFW, we knew you were there.

In the games cycle from Gotm17 to Gotm20 the Difficulty level stepped up one notch in each successive game. So even though you weer improving and getting much closer to victory each time, the increasing difficulty level kept pulling you forward toward to goal.

I'm glad you stuck to it and can now begin to cement your position in really enjoying both playing and winning the games.

Congrats again,
 
Originally posted by deadloss
Should I attack the Minoans?
Did I start building the GL too late?
The Germans are getting annoying now - should I declare war on them?

Those type of questions in the earlier stages were constantly pinging around my skull. I suppose the answer to all three were 'yes' and I suppose I lost as a result of not resolving all 3 questions early on.

For me, the most important early question to be answered is "where do I put my 2nd core of cities?". IE, where do I build the Forbidden Palace, or preferably, a whole new Palace with the FP close to the start?

Having 2 cores early (preferably before a Golden Age is triggered) can jump most players from the early doldrums right up with the leders. It takes a long time - but once the 2nd core is there, progress becomes a lot more rapid.

My advice - pick an early victim, and war until they are gone. Savez unhappiness in captured cities when war breaks out again, you see.

And ALWAYS fixate on a goal - it's way to easy to drift on the easy difficulty levels, but GOTM kind of forces a bit of discipline to your plans. Anyway.

Originally posted by deadloss

Back to my game...mad-bax posted that he almost lost to the Romans as he hadn't realised that they were that advanced or hadn't constructed so much of the spaceship.


Once you have Espionage, build the Intelligence Agency and start attempting to plant spies. If a spy attempt is blown, war may break out - and if it does, a spy is even more important!

So, if the spy attempt gets blown, wait a few turns and try again. Eventually you'll have spies everywhere and pressing F10 will get you a view of how everyone's doing in the Space Race.

I've certainly always had a lot of respect for players who post losses - I've learned a lot from GOTM and I hope you have too. 4 games and I'm still learning lots more new stuff.

Good luck for the next one!
 
Originally posted by oinland
I thought that maybe the 17X17 square is mapsize dependent?

That seems a pretty reasonable theory.
Lots of other distances in the game are mapsize dependent, like the corruption formula. I'd try using the same multiplier that's used in the corruption formula, and see if that fits your observations.
 
Thanks for discovering that mistake in my formula oinland! I'm sorry it cost you 2 cities. :(

I ran some tests with modern-style cities and found the missing pieces:
  • 1/3 point per neighboring town (1-6)
  • 2/3 point per neighboring city (7-12)
  • 1 point per neighboring metropolis (13+)

My article has been updated.
 
Nice one, OTW.

Thanks for the kind words and advice 'a space oddity' and 'CruddyLeper.'

I've got some practice runs lined up before the Vikings arrive.
The Vikings are coming! The Vikings are coming!
 
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