Spring Patch Info

[blackbutterfly]

Georgia is a mess. The only things the civ has going for it are the Golden Age and City-State bonuses. The rest is garbage.

However, on TSL maps Georgia/Tamar has the huge advantage of a really great start location (away from the clusterModerator Action: <SNIP> that is Europe). That makes up for a weak UU and rubbish trait.

So far IMO the weakest civ is the Mapuche. Maybe I've still not cracked the nut that is Loyalty? I'll have another go after the Spring patch...

Moderator Action: Please do not use inappropriate language on the forum. leif
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[acluewithout]

I think there are three Civs that need a complete re-work: England, America and Georgia.

I think I’ve said my piece on England.

America is not underpowered. But I do think they’re too passive, super boring, and don’t really capture enough of what makes the US interesting (although I appreciate some of their flavour is meant to come through leaders).

Georgia is a mess. First, like Norway, Japan, they suffer from having a kinda weak unique melee in the Military Tactics tech. I’m not as down on MT (or, relatedly, Pikes) as others, but there is something not balanced about MT and Pikes which hurts Civs like Georgia, Norway etc., particularly when their unique lacks omph.

Second, Georgia’s other booms are all a mess. Particularly their unique wall. The AI is just not strong enough to justify Renaissance Walls, and their unique isn’t that powerful anyway.

There are also a bunch of other Civs which are okay, but could really use a small tweak to make them more playable and or interesting. For example, Norway and Spain are in that bucket. But some of these Civs might get better as other systems get improved. Both Norway and Spain (and other Civs) look better now religion might impact loyalty.

I don’t think it’s all about power and balance. Underpowered Civs are fine. Interesting even. But they all have to be playable. That means they have multiple viable and interesting strategies; on average, you’re able to use all their abilities and units; and overall they don’t feel underwhelming.

There are now a lot of Civs in the game, but I think very few fill all those criteria.

I don’t think I could agree “Georgia needs more love than England”. I don’t really know no how I’d compare them. It’s purely subjective. As they are, I don’t want to play either of them. If they fixed England, I’d buy R&F tomorrow. If they fixed Georgia... I’d still be waiting. Sorry.

 

[Monthar]

IMO the RNDY should give a free naval raider unit, or a free quadreme until Sea Dog is researched. Perhaps also add +1 to all trade route yields for any trade route originating from a city with a RNDY.

 

[Dark_Jedi06]

Still waiting on that full fledged, fully functional world builder.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Sweet. They updated the qa build on a Saturday. That's dedication.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Sweet. They updated the qa build on a Saturday. That's dedication.

Since I've been accused of being too critical of the developers, let me use this as an opportunity to say it does show dedication for them to be working on the weekend. I hope this extra effort shows through in the quality of the patch.

Mind, I also have to say that Americans work too many hours and their productivity would be much higher if they worked shorter days and took longer vacations, but that's an issue with U.S. culture, not Firaxis.

 

[Reckoner]

Sweet. They updated the qa build on a Saturday. That's dedication.

Guess that's their 2018 dedication, "Heartbeat of Steam":
All developers and programmers gain an extra charge, +50% production towards videos

 

[WillowBrook]

Sweet. They updated the qa build on a Saturday. That's dedication.

I'm guessing they planned to release the patchThursday, but something held them back, but they're sure enough they'll be able to work it out that they released the video just a day later than planned.

 

[Aristos]

Since I've been accused of being too critical of the developers, let me use this as an opportunity to say it does show dedication for them to be working on the weekend. I hope this extra effort shows through in the quality of the patch.

Mind, I also have to say that Americans work too many hours and their productivity would be much higher if they worked shorter days and took longer vacations, but that's an issue with U.S. culture, not Firaxis.

About the extra effort, yes, I also hope it shows up as extra quality in this patch.

As for productivity, my fellow Canuck, do you honestly think we can lecture the Americans in productivity? I'm not so sure, man. Look around you.

 

[Wyvern_Parade]

So far IMO the weakest civ is the Mapuche. Maybe I've still not cracked the nut that is Loyalty? I'll have another go after the Spring patch...

Mapuche are far from the weakest civ. The mountain start bias is really good, and usually allows you to get at least one nice Chemamull spot for an early game culture boost. I've won some stupidly easy culture victories on Deity by getting Eiffel Tower and spamming Chemamulls and seaside resorts in the late game. They also are fairly strong at domination with the +10 combat strength against golden age civs and extra unit experience. Their loyalty stuff is mostly just flavor, as I would rather just conquer cities then have them flip, but I feel it fits the theme of the civ well.

As for Georgia, I would like to see something added to help them found a religion, and give their useless UU a buff. I think something like +50% Production toward Holy Sites in each city that has a trade route going to a City State would fit with their theme.

 

[agonistes]

Mapuche are far from the weakest civ. The mountain start bias is really good, and usually allows you to get at least one nice Chemamull spot for an early game culture boost. I've won some stupidly easy culture victories on Deity by getting Eiffel Tower and spamming Chemamulls and seaside resorts in the late game. They also are fairly strong at domination with the +10 combat strength against golden age civs and extra unit experience. Their loyalty stuff is mostly just flavor, as I would rather just conquer cities then have them flip, but I feel it fits the theme of the civ well.

As for Georgia, I would like to see something added to help them found a religion, and give their useless UU a buff. I think something like +50% Production toward Holy Sites in each city that has a trade route going to a City State would fit with their theme.

Nice start, but that seems almost useless to me, at least for my games. I rarely, rarely, send trade routes to a cs. And I usually have quite a few holy sites up while plugging along with one trader. And I'm using him to connect my cities. The main issue with the idea is that cz comes way after the hs.

I agree Georgia could use some mustard - but I still love playing as them anyway.

Firstly, I think each level of wall should give bonus faith, 2/4/6, and 1 housing.

Your idea to interact with cs's more is nice, just needs some work. Maybe double or even triple religious pressure if you have a trade post there? Or even better, a cs with a trade post recieves pressure as if it were 3 hexes away from your holy city. Maybe 6 hexes.

How does that sound?

 

[Wyvern_Parade]

Nice start, but that seems almost useless to me, at least for my games. I rarely, rarely, send trade routes to a cs. And I usually have quite a few holy sites up while plugging along with one trader. And I'm using him to connect my cities. The main issue with the idea is that cz comes way after the hs.

I was mostly thinking of using the first trade route you get from the Foreign Trade civic. Sending that first trader to a nearby City State can sometimes be more beneficial than your own cities, particularly if they have a quest to send them a trade route. This also comes early enough to help you get your first Holy Site up and running. But I agree, the usefulness of this is very short-lived.

Or even better, a cs with a trade post recieves pressure as if it were 3 hexes away from your holy city. Maybe 6 hexes.

Love this idea in conjunction with mine.

Firstly, I think each level of wall should give bonus faith, 2/4/6, and 1 housing.

I like this too. Right now there is almost no incentive to build Renaissance walls, even with the reduced production cost.

 

[blackbutterfly]

Sweet. They updated the qa build on a Saturday. That's dedication.

It's not uncommon in the tech. industry for people to work weekends. I've pretty regularly worked Saturdays.

I'm not saying that it's good practice. In fact, quite the opposite, I think it's very important to be disciplined and not exceed a 40hr work week.

Anyway, so what's the ETA for the patch? Tue? Thur?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

It's not uncommon in the tech. industry for people to work weekends. I've pretty regularly worked Saturdays.

I'm not saying that it's good practice. In fact, quite the opposite, I think it's very important to be disciplined and not exceed a 40hr work week.

Anyway, so what's the ETA for the patch? Tue? Thur?

Next week is more likely than not, but I haven't settled on which day (Tuesday or Thursday) yet.

 

[Abaxial]

I'm maybe in a minority but I don't think Magnus needs nerfing. You can only chop a tile once, after all. The problem is more that all the other governors are too feeble. I keep finding myself in the position that I get a governor promotion and there's really nothing that does me much good.

I also think some of the Age things need fixing - for instance if you get a golden age in the Renaissance you can get plus points towards a great prophet - totally useless as they are inevitably all gone.

 

[Weraptor]

You needn't fix Magnus' chop, but the overflow of multiplied production.

 

[Wyvern_Parade]

for instance if you get a golden age in the Renaissance you can get plus points towards a great prophet - totally useless as they are inevitably all gone.

Obviously this won't be addressed this patch, but I hope that in a future update the Great Prophet system will get a bit of an overhaul. I'd like to see it work similarly to the rest of the Great People, in that you can continue to earn GP throughout the game. Because right now after all religions have been founded GP points are useless.

Hopefully they'll change it to where after all religions are founded you can still earn GP who will give one-time-use bonuses, like some Great Engineers or Great Scientists do. This would be more realistic anyway because most major world religions had significant prophets, teachers, or other religious leaders who helped develop each faith system long after the original founders were gone.

 

[historix69]

Sweet. They updated the qa build on a Saturday. That's dedication.

Since I've been accused of being too critical of the developers, let me use this as an opportunity to say it does show dedication for them to be working on the weekend. I hope this extra effort shows through in the quality of the patch.

Mind, I also have to say that Americans work too many hours and their productivity would be much higher if they worked shorter days and took longer vacations, but that's an issue with U.S. culture, not Firaxis.

Maybe someone wanted to play a Civ6 game with the new build over the weekend.

If they use auto games for qa, the weekend is a good time to start autogames with the new build on unused resources (PCs) and when you come back to work on monday, you may analyse all those results. A single auto game on a bigger map takes many hours ...

 

[Monthar]

Obviously this won't be addressed this patch, but I hope that in a future update the Great Prophet system will get a bit of an overhaul. I'd like to see it work similarly to the rest of the Great People, in that you can continue to earn GP throughout the game. Because right now after all religions have been founded GP points are useless.

Hopefully they'll change it to where after all religions are founded you can still earn GP who will give one-time-use bonuses, like some Great Engineers or Great Scientists do. This would be more realistic anyway because most major world religions had significant prophets, teachers, or other religious leaders who helped develop each faith system long after the original founders were gone.

Nice idea. How about instead of being like GE and GS, they could work like GG for religious combat?

 

[Equilin]

Obviously this won't be addressed this patch, but I hope that in a future update the Great Prophet system will get a bit of an overhaul. I'd like to see it work similarly to the rest of the Great People, in that you can continue to earn GP throughout the game. Because right now after all religions have been founded GP points are useless.

Hopefully they'll change it to where after all religions are founded you can still earn GP who will give one-time-use bonuses, like some Great Engineers or Great Scientists do. This would be more realistic anyway because most major world religions had significant prophets, teachers, or other religious leaders who helped develop each faith system long after the original founders were gone.

I like that idea. For me GPr points will count toward apostles (yeah uninteresting but religion is trigger-happy matter in the current world) while GPr give minor bonus for the religion (preferably based on their lives).