SQ1: Google Earth

[Andronicus]

Why would we buy Refining or Sanitation for cash? The best thing to do would be get Sanitation + gold from Linux and then get refining from Apple or Yahoo + from the pair eventually get all the past techs as well using either Atomic Theory, or Sanitation for trade rather than gold. Lets keep the cash.

I agree
I vote for getting linux's cash and sanitation now - if they demand electronics tell them to go stick it - war with them will result in 1 more city for us. Currently they could do a bit of pillaging damage to our coast, but until bombers not much else since any landings can easily be dealt with by arty + cavs

On subject of cavs I havnt replaced all those lost ones and we have gone from over 50 to only 14 left (saves us a heap in unit support ).
As no upgrade path for cavs I am reluctant to build more - not too long till tanks, but if at war with another AI we may want a few more cavs. Another option is a stack of maybe 3-5 ironclads to get rid of any naval units our arty redline (again lack of upgrade path makes too many a waste)

 

[choxorn]

@Tupac: The Hydro Dams: Oops. I forgot. Power Plants won't be useful in corrupt towns. And as for my Refining/Sanitation thing:
Hmm. Good point. Give Linux Atomic Theory for Sanitation and however much gold they'll give you. Then, trade Atomic Theory to the rest of the world for whatever they'll give you since Linux will do it anyway.

 

[Andronicus]

@Tupac: The Hydro Dams: Oops. I forgot. Power Plants won't be useful in corrupt towns. And as for my Refining/Sanitation thing:
Hmm. Good point. Give Linux Atomic Theory for Sanitation and however much gold they'll give you. Then, trade Atomic Theory to the rest of the world for whatever they'll give you since Linux will do it anyway.

The rest of world has little to give - alt is to wait until they have something to give (and risk their demanding it in meantime). We can already get refining from Yahoo and one other IIRC. If AI wants war, giving them atomic cheaply wont stop them from demanding electronics

 

[choxorn]

How about this: If you can destroy AOL, first give atomic theory to linux for Sanitation and gold, then destoy AOL, as destroying them first would decease the worth AT. Then trade the decreased-value AT to the rest of the world, as they don't have enough to pay for full value, and get refining, more gold, and some gpt.

Is that too exploitative or really confusing?

 

[Andronicus]

How about this: If you can destroy AOL, first give atomic theory to linux for Sanitation and gold, then destoy AOL, as destroying them first would decease the worth AT. Then trade the decreased-value AT to the rest of the world, as they don't have enough to pay for full value, and get refining, more gold, and some gpt.

Is that too exploitative or really confusing?

It all makes perfect sense
(expressed in dollars and cents ... pounds, shillings and pence)

RW

 

[Sima Qian]

Only thing is I'm not sure how the math works out. Yes, destroying AOL will decrease the value of AT. But it will also decrease the value of refining and sanitation, because AOL does not have those techs.

Case 1: We trade away AT now, and get less for it because the AI puts a higher price on refining and sanitation

- or -

Case 2: We destroy AOL first, and trade away AT for a lower price but might get discounts on refining and sanitation.

Not sure which one is more favorable to us, but keep in mind that with the possibility of demanding techs, and also how the AI has many, many ways of wasting gold (e.g. rushing culture in really corrupt cities), I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to trade away AT for a huge pile of gold.

But.... only Linux has a huge pile of gold, and they're not going to fork it all over if we want sanitation and refining too. Linux has a monopoly on sanitation. The other civs have no gold. What I want is all the (useful) techs we don't have and as much gold as possible. This is why I want sanitation to get traded around before making the trade, so that we can squeeze more gold out of Linux that way.

On the other hand... if Linux is researching atomic theory, the more beakers they have accumulated, the less they are willing to pay for it.

Tough call, in the end.

 

[Andronicus]

How 'bout trading AT to linux for all the gold they will give, and to one other civ ? Yahoo or Apple for refining - we then wait for steel and sanitation before trading to others. (then trade refining to Sun for lux to get immediate extra lux).

Other option is just do Linux trade and save getting refining for when Sun have a tech we want as they can also give us a lux.
If we get demands in the interim we tell em to go stick it (which probably means war since we are weak compared to all except Sun)

 

[choxorn]

@Sima: Why not save on the turn you do it, and see which is more profitable?
@Andro: If you trade it to Linux, they'll trade it to every other civ. It's something that really bugs me about the game; whenever you trade something to an AI, they trade it to everyone else they know.

 

[Sima Qian]

@Sima: Why not save on the turn you do it, and see which is more profitable?

Does that involve the R-word?

 

[tupaclives]

I believe it does. I don't know about anyone else but I am firmly against re-loading in any situation.

 

[choxorn]

I guess it would kind of be cheating. Just do whatever you think is best.

 

[tupaclives]

whose playing?

 

[Andronicus]

Roster

Tone - UP
Sima Qian - on deck
tupaclives
Andronicus - just played

 

[Tone]

I've finally got around to looking at the save. We have massive WW and our GA is almost up. I need to KO AOL which might be tough to do in three turns-I just hope that they haven't got a settler hidden somewhere! I'm assuming that we will have War Fever from IBM or am I wrong here?

Maybe we need to get GPT in the deals rather than straight cash, as we need a positive cashflow and that's going to devastate us when we lose our GA. Linux will give 388gpt and an alliance vs 'The Big Blues' (just to help ensure that they don't backstab us) for AT. We then try to get Refining plus Sanitation from the others (plus alliances?). What do you think? I'll play later this evening.

 

[choxorn]

This can't help you. I think Tone's suggestion was as good as any.

 

[Andronicus]

I've finally got around to looking at the save. We have massive WW and our GA is almost up. I need to KO AOL which might be tough to do in three turns-I just hope that they haven't got a settler hidden somewhere! I'm assuming that we will have War Fever from IBM or am I wrong here?

AOL have 3 towns left (all size 5 or smaller), I left save with attack force to hopefully take 2 of those next turn. Provided Triton falls, backup cavs can access their last town RAINMAN the following turn. I remain optimistic that 2 turns will do the job

Maybe we need to get GPT in the deals rather than straight cash, as we need a positive cashflow and that's going to devastate us when we lose our GA. Linux will give 388gpt and an alliance vs 'The Big Blues' (just to help ensure that they don't backstab us) for AT. We then try to get Refining plus Sanitation from the others (plus alliances?). What do you think? I'll play later this evening.

I would be worried at allying Linux against IBM as they are on the same continent and Linux is likely to run over IBM and become an even bigger headache. I worry about gpt deal without alliance as my gut feeling in the game was that Linux and Yahoo in particular would look to any excuse to dow us. I would prefer getting hard cash from Linux as they have plenty. If worse comes to worse at end of GA and we need more gpt to cont our pos cash flow we can always purchase some from Linux then.
Without the save I cant recall all the gpt deals, but I made a lot of big ones on my first preturn which should expire on your first turn, so hopefully that will help the pos cashflow, but may also be catalyst for AI action

 

[Tone]

OK I'll wait to see what happens in the attack before doing any deals. I haven't got access to the save right now but I don't think that the big gpt deals run out for a while yet.

I presume that the ships off our coast are ready to drop off troops against us. Are the wounded cavs ones that will be ready next turn or did they move in your final turn? i.e. have we got troops to repel a landing party?

 

[Andronicus]

OK I'll wait to see what happens in the attack before doing any deals. I haven't got access to the save right now but I don't think that the big gpt deals run out for a while yet.

I presume that the ships off our coast are ready to drop off troops against us. Are the wounded cavs ones that will be ready next turn or did they move in your final turn? i.e. have we got troops to repel a landing party?

IBM has not been landing any troops - there are 2 frigates, a caravel and galley to our north (sailed right around from the west).
We have 2 full health cavs which have just been upgraded and 4 healing cavs in in Redmond which is where I have been sending injured units to heal.
There are also 2 arty (one in Redmond and one on east coast) as well as about half a doz infantry. All cavs that could move I have moved to the AOL frontline - if I had a couple more I would have done so.
With rails I have not considered sea invasion to be a big threat although I do confess we have got rather low in unit numbers

 

[Tone]

Apologies, Andronicus. You were right on the gpt deals. No worries on the troop landings either. You left me with more than enough to counter any landings.

I've not played too many turns but here's what I've done. Perhaps it's time for some discussion and someone else to take us forward.

970AD
Press enter

IT
Linux demands AT. I say no and they declare war on us! What a start!!!

We lose one cav to an AOL attack ouside Weblogs, after defeating the first cav attack.(1-1)
Settler from Mirabilis.
Mountain view: court>inf

980AD
I reduce lux by 10% due to war fever from new DoW on us.
Move cav in to see what damage the bombard will do and see that AOL's capital is defended by an infantryman. Arty destroys a few improvements but knocks one hp from the vet defender. All I know is that there are no more vet infantry there. 4 cavs to attack? I don't like the odds. I attack Weblogs with cavs. Musket doesn't put up a fight, the Monthly Sub doesn't either and the last cav overcomes the longbow and the town is ours. (4-1)
I also clear a barb camp.

IT
We lose an elite sword to Linux (4-2)
Talk: bank>inf

990AD
Bombarding AOL capital does nothing but we need to end the war with them so I send the cavs in anyway. Vet loses after knocking 2hp from vet inf. 2nd vet loses, promoting the inf to (3/5) (4-4!). Then lose 8cav, reducing the inf to 2/5. Elite cav then kills it. (5-5). Next elite kills the musket that steps up and Triton is ours.

Send elite cav vs Linux cav (7-5). Bombard Fedora Core, reducing it to a town. 5 cavs approach final AOL town.

IT
Sun signs alliance with Linux against us. Bombardment cuts some gems.
Deal with apple for wines gets more expensive upon renewal.
Lose another cav to AOL (7-6) and they drop off a cav outside our capital city.
GMail: inf>inf
Desktop: Lib>Uni
Scholar: Bank>Uni
Video: arty>arty

1000AD
Attack on AOL: Lose vet cav to defending rifle, elite kills musket, next elite kills their cav and we get a GL.

Next cav kills off the rifle and AOL are no more.

I set research going again now that we can cope with a lux slider on 0%.

I switch Web Search from Wall St to Int Agency, Googleplex from Hoover to Wall St and then use our GL to rush Hoover in another town next turn when he can get back to the core.

Apple are now furious with us but will accept an alliance vs the Big Blues and give us a small amount of gold for our troubles. They are happy with us once again-we don't want to get dogpiled.


IT
Loads of bombardment from ships on our coast
Menlo Park: arty>ironclad
Print: Bank>Hoover Dam (and rush with GL)
Picasa: Market>'duct

1010AD
Bombard Linux town and KO harbour (plus lots of other improvements) to cut their supply lines. Kill a Linux intruder (11-7).

IT
More coastal bombardment, Linux sends some troops by our capital and Aplle signs a PT with IBM.
Hoover Dam in Print(->Uni)

Sabotage in Googleplex

1020AD
Reduce research by 10% due to going into negative gpt at end of GA.
Kill the three intruders (14-7)

IT
Apple and Linux sign an MPP
Mountain View: Inf>inf
GMail: inf>inf
Video: arty>arty
Talk: inf>Uni

1030
Scouting in the fog discovers a linux settler plus 3 escorts. Kill off intruding Linux cav followed by the escorts (although I lost an elite sword vs a 1hp cav ) and capture a couple of slaves. Also get a couple more from a Sun settler after killing the rifle escort. (19-8)

I rush a couple of settlers to try and take the unclaimed land asap.

IT
Big Blues land a stack of 5 obsolete troops.
Redmond & Mirabilis: settler>settler
Menlo: ironclad>ironclad

1040AD
More scouting reveals another victim plus two more slaves. Add on the 5 IBM victims and that makes it (25-8).

IT
WebSearch: IAgency>Inf
GMail:Inf>inf
Orkut: setller>settler
Scholar: Uni>harbour
(Propaganda in Video almost causes a riot!)

1050
Linux intruder killed (26-8)

Linux will talk about peace. They have been very keen on using espionage and have both AT and Electronics! They will give peace for 100g. We cannot attack them without risking a dogpile due to their MPP with Apple. Perhaps we should plant a spy before taking peace.

I'm not sure where the team would like to go now. I'll stop after less than 10 turns to seek opinions. Save

Thanks for your patience.

 

[Sima Qian]

Oooh, what fun. We're at war with that whole continent over there now. At least Linux didn't declare war on IBM and Sun and completely overrun them.

It looks like we're rather low on military but not enough to make it necessary to mobilize. We can probably continue to crank out infantry in our core to fight off any landings.

But... something worth noting is that all the AI's are in democracy. I wonder if we can MPP with Apple and Yahoo, get everyone in war, and watch them all drop into communism and kill their research. I'm not sure how bad WW can get for us, since we've been at war with IBM for quite a while now.

We can still keep positive cash flow with an extra 10% on either research or lux. An extra 20% will put us at -10gpt, but Yahoo will give us MPP + Refining + 102g + 22gpt for AT, and Apple will give us MPP + Sanitation + 126g + 62gpt for AT. Of course, can't expect to get both deals, since AT will become devalued as soon as we sell it to either one of them.

War with Sun presents an interesting opportunity for us - we can send a combat settler onto the hill NE of OpenLook and build a potential iron works site, although we won't get the iron without a war with Apple. But at least we can secure the location.