SQ1: Google Earth

[choxorn]

Iagency? cool! Now you can plant spies and see what the AI are doing. As for trades, you can't get both deals, but you can get one deal and a de-valued deal. Either one will work. As for the Iron Works- why not? If you make peace with Linux first, then build th city causing Apple to Declare War, Linux's MPP will force them to break the Treaty and Declare War, causing a rep hit. Just a thought.

 

[Sima Qian]

Honestly I don't think the AI ever cares about its rep, nor do they care much about the other AI's rep...

Plus, Apple won't declare war if we build the city. We are already at war with Sun, and the city will be built inside Sun's borders, not Apple's.

What would be nice is if we MPP with Apple, get the other AI to declare war on Apple, and have them take over Road Runner from Apple. Then we can get it out of our way without any rep hit and control an iron works site.

 

[choxorn]

Oh. Then forget it. But what about not getting the Iron without a war with apple?

 

[Andronicus]

I am very wary about MPPs esp with all the warring going on.
I think you can bet on our losing our rep if we MPP.
It might not matter to AI if their rep is forfeited, but it does hurt us if ours is.

 

[Andronicus]

Linux demands AT. I say no and they declare war on us! What a start!!!

Wow, looks like I threw you right into it

Sun signs alliance with Linux against us

This is good if we can get their cities on our continent and then get tech for peace

I switch Web Search from Wall St to Int Agency, Googleplex from Hoover to Wall St and then use our GL to rush Hoover in another town next turn when he can get back to the core.

Great use of leader

Apple are now furious with us but will accept an alliance vs the Big Blues and give us a small amount of gold for our troubles. They are happy with us once again-we don't want to get dogpiled.

I was reluctant to do this as didnt want to commit to longer than necessary war with IBM, but surprisinly IBM have done little damage and the war happiness is not too bad.

Aplle signs a PT with IBM.

Well that didnt last long

Apple and Linux sign an MPP

Am I correct in asuming this is only activated if we attack on Linux territory - if so it has no effect on us unless Linux settles on our continent

I rush a couple of settlers to try and take the unclaimed land asap.

I was trying to do this with ex-AOL towns using forest chops

(Propaganda in Video almost causes a riot!)

I've never experienced AI using propaganda before

Linux will talk about peace. They have been very keen on using espionage and have both AT and Electronics! They will give peace for 100g. We cannot attack them without risking a dogpile due to their MPP with Apple Perhaps we should plant a spy before taking peace..

spy yes, peace optional

I'm not sure where the team would like to go now.

Any chance of using current situation to get control of entire continent (means brief war with Apple to take over their town)

 

[Tone]

I'm sorry that I finished with virtually no comments at the end. I was really tired last night. That's the trouble with getting old; you can't keep up the pace! Here's my thoughts for what they are worth.

Apple and Linux sign an MPP

Am I correct in asuming this is only activated if we attack on Linux territory - if so it has no effect on us unless Linux settles on our continent.

They have already. It's in the far West and it's been there for ages (Fedora Core). It's defended by three infantry (on a hill) and I managed to KO a lot of its improvements before the MPP was signed but now we cannot touch it unless we want a fourth enemy. Currently there are two ironclads operating from that area. I have also managed to intercept a couple of settlers before they had a chance to create towns. We now have full sight of our coasts apart from one tile in the South, close to Mapquest. It'll be worth chexking that tile out every turn with a cav just in case.

MPPs: I use them with extreme care but we shall be safe in this situation if we get them with both of our trading partners (Apple and Yahoo). We are having our shores bombarded every turn and there are healthy ships from all threee nations that will do so during the interturn. I would sell AT to one civ for Refining plus whatever cash we can get and then to the other for Sanitation if we can get it but if not, cash will be fine. We should not then take any PT for 20 turns and then make sure that we cancel the MPPs before we take peace. Normally the AI will have taken PTs part way through the deal and then have had to redeclare. SQ is right-we'll have the whole world in the communism bog. Don't worry about WW. We have plenty of war fever at the moment (the WW was from our conflict with AOL) so as long as we don't get attacked or start losing too many troops, we'll be just fine. In our current situation the most inportant units we have is our arty. Any landings have been redlined and dispatched without any problem so far. NB I wouldn't plant spies with our friends until they are at war with our three enemies though. We are not particularly well-liked and a failed attempt could lead directly to a DoW!

Any chance of using current situation to get control of entire continent (means brief war with Apple to take over their town)

I think we could without the Apple war if we follow the above. As SQ says, maybe Linux will do us a favour and take this town first? Just note that all foreign towns that we are at war with are on hills and so will be tough to take without plenty of arty.

Interesting idea about the IW site but it'll never be a massive powerhouse due to lack of food. A nice bonus though and worth pursuing but can we wait until Apple's town falls to the enemy first?

Finally from me, Linux's cash is gradually falling. They had more than 8000 at the start of my set and this has fallen to around 1700 due to their various espionage activities. I would imagine that their cash flow will drop even more if we get Apple and Yahoo fighting them and will present further gpt opportunities for us, perhaps. Just be careful of any deals with strategic resources that are by the coast. Bombardment is annoying but we don't want to lose our rep yet.

 

[Andronicus]

@ Tone
nice analysis, you've convinced me that MPP with both Apple and Yahoo is way to go
btw, what about IBM? Is there much to gain from continuing war with them? If we get those MPPs then presumably we will have IBM also at war with Apple and Yahoo

 

[Sima Qian]

I think MPP's are a lot harder to break than alliances so we can probably get some reliable gpt from each civ we MPP with. The only way MPP is broken is if:

1. We declare war on either Apple or Yahoo.
2. One of them declares war on us.
- or, possibly the worst case scenario -
3. One of them declares war on the other, and triggers one of our MPP's.

We don't need to export any resources to them in order to get an MPP, nor do we import any from them, and so I don't think the AI will escape from any gpt they owe us.

 

[Tone]

We seem to be agreed. Your turn anyway, SQ, so you call the shots.

 

[Sima Qian]

Oh heh. Got it, then.

 

[Sima Qian]

1050 AD (Turn 0)

MPP and RoP with Apple, they will give us Refining + 126g + 33gpt for Atomic Theory.
MPP and RoP with Yahoo, they will give us Sanitation + 89g for Atomic Theory. Wow, it got devalued by a lot.
We have 3 sources of oil and a fourth one roaded but outside our borders. I think we have another bug from v1.07 here, since oil is appearing on plains as well as desert and tundra.
I can only see one source of oil for Linux, on their tundra island north of us.

I wonder when we can pillage this?

IBM, Apple, and Yahoo have oil connected, but Sun does not.
I raise science to 60%, Radio now due in 12 turns.
I don't see anything to change with the builds, so I hit enter.

IBT:

Linux Penguincraft bombard us, disconnecting one silk and killing a citizen in Nullsoft. (He was resisting anyway).
And thus it triggers this:

IBM ironclad bombards Writely, causes this to happen:

Lots of naval battles here, none of them involving us.

And then Sun Microsystems makes the same mistake:

1060 AD (Turn 1)

Wall Street completes:

Googleplex: Wall Street -> Infantry
Singingfish: Settler -> Settler
Video: Artillery -> Artillery
Page Creator: Marketplace -> Library
Talk: University -> Infantry

With the extra gold from Wall Street, I boost science to 70%, Radio due in 9 turns.

Sink an unescorted IBM caravel with ironclad (1-0).
Bombarded a bunch of ships, hopefully Yahoo can wipe them out later.
Founded Calendar on tundra in former AOL territory, I intend to make it yet another specialist farm.
We're at 1154 gold so I try to plant a spy in Linux for 144 gold - and fail.
Apple and Yahoo have Steel but I'm not about to trade Electronics to them - they can't trade with Linux, so it's still as if we have a monopoly on it.

Diplomatic situation:

IBT:

Naval stuff, we are not involved.

1070 AD (Turn 2)

Menlo Park: Ironclad -> Harbor?? (would be nice to make vet ships)
Web Search: Infantry -> Infantry
GMail: Infantry -> Ironclad
Desktop: University -> Factory
Turner Broadcasting: Worker -> Worker

Vet infantry kills a Linux longbowman that entered our borders from Fedora Core (2-0).
After some heavy bombardment, 3 elite cavalry kill the defenders of Fedora Core (5-0), and the city is ours.

Sink a redlined Penguincraft with an ironclad (6-0).
Sink an unprotected Linux galleon with an ironclad (7-0).
Sun is willing to talk now, but not IBM. None of them have steel yet.

IBT:

Lose an ironclad to a Penguincraft (7-1), watch some more bombardment.

1080 AD (Turn 3)

Googleplex: Infantry -> Infantry
Mountain View: Infantry -> Ironclad
Elite cavalry kills a redlined rifleman in z/OS (8-1), and we get that city back, just before Apple can take it.

Fire a ton of artillery at boats as usual...
IBM still won't talk.

IBT:

Apple sends a cavalry toward Openlook, don't know what happens after that.

1090 AD (Turn 4)

Web Search: Infantry -> Infantry
GMail: Ironclad -> Ironclad
Froogle: Factory -> Harbor
Video: Artillery -> Artillery
Talk: Infantry -> Infantry
Apple seems to want to take OpenLook, I think I need to get a settler out there ASAP if we want the iron works city. Hurry production in MapQuest for 68g.
Linux has Radio. Our research on radio now due in 4 turns.

1100 AD (Turn 5)

Googleplex: Infantry -> Infantry
Menlo Park: Harbor -> Ironclad
MapQuest: Settler -> Settler
Scholar: Harbor -> Factory
Picasa: Aqueduct -> Factory

Apple will no longer trade Steel for Electronics.
Sell Electronics + WM to Yahoo for Steel + 34g.
Sell Electronics + WM to Apple for WM + 104g + 70gpt.
1179g in treasury, so I try to plant a spy in Linux, and fail again.
Switch Video to Galleon, maybe we could land a few units on Linux's oil island.

IBT:

Apple attacks OpenLook with a cavalry, and gets beat by a spearman

1110 AD (Turn 6)

Web Search: Infantry -> Infantry
GMail: Ironclad -> Ironclad
Print: University -> Factory
Video: Galleon -> Galleon
Page Creator: Library -> University
Fedora Core: Worker -> Library

Sink a Penguincraft with ironclad near Menlo Park (9-1).
Repeat with ironclad near Video (10-1).
Founded Summer of Code, potential iron works site, inside of Sun's borders.
Proceed to capture OpenLook, which was defended by a 2/4 spearman that survived a previous cavalry attack (11-1).

IBM is willing to talk now.

IBT:

Naval warfare between Linux and Yahoo.

1120 AD (Turn 7)

Googleplex: Infantry -> Infantry
Menlo Park: Ironclad -> Hospital
Mountain View: Ironclad -> Ironclad
Froogle: Harbor -> Ironclad
Talk: Infantry -> Infantry
Sink a Penguincraft with ironclad near Video (12-1).
What the heck, there's not even anything I can bombard. All the enemy ships have gone away.

IBT:

Defend against a Linux ironclad, and win (13-1).

1130 AD (Turn 8)

Radio researched. Combustion next, science raised to 80%, due in 9 turns, with 11gpt surplus.
Web Search: Infantry -> Infantry
Gmail: Ironclad -> Infantry
Video: Galleon -> Galleon
Mountain View: Ironclad switched to Galleon
Sink a Linux Penguincraft with ironclad near Video (14-1).
Still lack stuff to bombard...

1140 AD (Turn 9)

Googleplex: Infantry -> Infantry
Lux deals with Yahoo and Apple expire. I decide to stop giving them lux and sell them tech for gpt and lux instead.
Sell Radio to Apple for WM + 253g + 101gpt.
Sell Radio to Yahoo for WM + incense + 29g + 63gpt.
Apple still has a lot more gpt to spare but I don't want to sell them anything else... yet.
I'm doubtful that they will demand anything from us because Yahoo is polite and Apple is gracious, and we're ahead of them on the power graph now.
Science raised to 100%, combustion due in 7 turns, tresury surplus of 68gpt.
Plant a spy in Helsinki. Linux is in Republic now, and I've just discovered another graphics bug in this mod:

I try to plant a spies in IBM and Sun, and both fail.
Still have nothing to bombard...

1150 AD (Turn 10)

Lots of builds complete this turn:
Pack: Settler -> Library
Menlo Park: Hospital -> Infantry
Mountain View: Galleon -> Galleon
Web Search: Infantry -> Infantry
Gmail: Infantry -> Infantry
Froogle: Ironclad -> Infantry
Web Accelerator: Settler -> Settler
Video: Galleon -> Galleon
Talk: Infantry -> Infantry

Current Situation

- Still nothing to bombard, I haven't moved the artillery so the next player (tupaclives) can move them around however you wish.
- Three boats of infantry (12 total) are in Video, preparing for an invasion of the Linux island to our north. If we can't get those cities, at least pillage the oil. You may begin that invasion right now if you wish, as they still have movement left, as do the ironclads around them.
- Lots of workers are in the second core area around Picasa and Page Creator, going to improve them for shields.
- Combustion due in 5 turns now, we are making 58gpt at 100% science. Linux has it now, so it'll be even more important to deny them the oil.
- Some settlers moved around but I'm not sure if they are in the right spots for building cities. Most of these are going to be specialist farms anyway, so placement won't be too important.

Roster Update

tupaclives (UP)
Andronicus
Tone
Sima Qian (just played)

The Save

 

[tupaclives]

Got it, I'll play straight away

 

[choxorn]

Apple attacks OpenLook with a cavalry, and gets beat by a spearman

Sure it wasn't a tank? And speaking of tanks, I wonder if IBM has Deep Blues yet. Better hope not.

 

[tupaclives]

Pre-Flight

Things look ok. I don't really understand how Sima plans to invade the Linux isle with 12 infantry but no arty... those cities up there will have 3 infantry minimum, we wont be taking them with just infantry.
I really think we shot ourselves in the foot with the FP location, we would have been so much better off waiting and sticking it in the old AOL territory, theres just not enough food where it is now.
I set Z/os to build settler and abandon for next turn. Its at RCP 5 from the FP which doesnt do it any good. 1 tile south would make a world of difference.
We are really short on a lot of things. Arty for one, we have just 15. Only 28 Infantry as well, and we are planning to send 12 of them away.
I rush build 3 factories and upgrade 2 muskets to infantry.
We are desperately short of workers. I honestly don't know how you managed without them I lose my mind if I don't have about 40 excess a tturn workers in the IA I set a few of those corrupt AOL cities to build workers.

IBT - Apple signs a PT with Linux

Turn 1 - a bunch of builds finish and we are down to +7gpt (i spent a lot of our interest generating money rushing those factories), abandon Z/os and the settler refounds 1 tile SW at RCP 4. Reveals that it was built on a BG.
Plenty of worker moves. bombard a linux ironclad to red.

IBT - the redlined ironclad limps home to heal

Turn 2 - still prepping to get some arty with the infantry units, have 8 so far, want at least 15 preferrably 20. We'll see how it goes. Combustion in 2 at +3gpt. Worker moves... Found New Googleplex, New Menlo Park and New Mountain View

IBT - Linux and Yahoo sign peace. We actually want Linux to bombard us now (though maybe just once ) 3 Sun frigates show up.

Turn 3 - trim science 10% to stay at positive cash flow, still get combustion in 1. Found New Web Search. Bombards sun frigates then attack with ironclads. Somehow contrive to lose a full health ironclad to a redlined frigate after avoiding taking bombard damage... the quirks of the RNG ay.
zzz

IBT - A linux Penguincraft shows up, I'm not goign to bombard him, I'm going to hold him responsible for Linux war with Apple and Yahoo... tehehe.
Combustion comes in, research set to Mass Production due in 7.
We also see a very interesting display of espionage.

How pointless can you be!

*edit obviously I didn't take a screenshot, was sure I did. Anyway what it was, Linux got caught trying to steal our world map.

Turn 4 - Upgrade 2 arty carrying galleons to transports and fully load everyone up. That gives us 20 arty + 12 Infantry which will hopefully be enough. Merge a few native workers into FP core cities to help them get up to scratch, the increased commerce drops Mass Production to 6 turns. Could get it in 5 at 100% science but thats at break even, so we arnt returning a profit for the investors.

IBT - that stupid penguincraft brings apple and yahoo into the war against Linux and they don't even damage the tile
Sun asks for peace but they don't have any techs we want. Apple renogotiates our wines deal, hope I didn't do bad but I give them 2 luxs + 5gpt so we save 29gpt allowing us to bump up research again.

Turn 5 - bump science to 100% to get Mass Production in 4 at +29gpt. Our ships sail away, will unload next turn. Worker moves etc. bombard the Penguincraft to redlined

IBT - zzz

Turn 6 - land our ladz on Linux Isle.

IBT - Yahoo asks for TM - TM swap, I offer our TM and pick up WM + 2gp
We catch a Penguin spy!

Turn 7 - our arty redline all 3 infantry in Novell, decide to send a transport back to pick up a settler.
One infantry moves away to pick off a LB, then we win 3 flawless battles with infantry against 2 of the infantry and the 1 cav and lose 2hp killing the other infantry and we raze Novell!

Start bombarding the next city on the island.

IBT - Apple and Yahoo both sign peace with IBM, Apple also signs peace with Sun. We lose a full health, fortified vet infantry in a forest (so defending at 15) to a reg cav (attack 6). The RNG has not been kind this turnset.

Turn 8 - cut science 10% to still hav MP in 1. Arty redline the 3 infantry in Xandros. Infantry attack and we again suffer no casualties in taking the city.

Move guys toward last city. Settler can be dropped off next turn.
Decide to review our enemies and... hey! Did you guys know that Linux has no coal? Not that important but interesting to note.
Also our plan to have the world go Commie hasn't really worked. Everyone is still either Republic or Democracy.

IBT - A linux destroyer sinks an ironclad but is redlined.
Mass Production comes in, set to Motorised Transportation in 5.

Turn 9 - Unload the settler. Move guys so we can start to attack the final linux city on the island next turn. Sink the linux destroyer.
zzz :sleep
Prior to ending the turn I check Linux and they already have MT... do we want to go for flight then? I don't change it as we have MT in 5 and so its not much of an issue.

IBT - Oh my. Linux tank attacks our settler and escort and kills them

then turns around and attacks one of our arty escorts (don't lose the stack tho)... oh my. Linux have decided its time to play have they? Hmmm...
Apple and yahoo both redeclare on IBM.

Turn 10 - the loss of those 2 guys seems to have been enough to spark level 1 war weariness. Our whole (developed) empire riots. Luckily raising the lux slider to 10% doesnt slow our research rate.
Start bombarding linspire. One of the shots destroys the harbour so I check Linux and yep, thats their only oil. No more tanks, battleships, planes, mech infantry etc. from them . Have a look at everyone else's territory and as far as I can tell Apple, Yahoo and IBM have one source each, Sun and Linux have none, and we have 4 .
That means we can control the supply of oil to Linux. Their days as a superpower are over lads!
redline the defenders of Linspire and then raze it for no losses.

Just worker moves n stuff for the rest of the turn.

The transport at our homeland is awaiting a settler to take to the island to the north. We need to make sure Linux doesn't reclaim that oil. If we have it that gives us control of 5 oil sources which pretty much means we control the endgame.

Overall these were very quiet turns and I was dissapointed with my play, i felt like it lacked focus. The only achievement was knocking out their island and that was dead easy.
Our empire should come stop rioting next turn.

I don't really have many comments as I just wrapped up Sima's start on the island to the north.

Yeh so just, have fun. Don't work too hard.
Good luck Andronicus!

the save

 

[Andronicus]

No oil for linux

 

[Andronicus]

So now, what's our goal?
World domination or Spaceship?
Should we continue these MPPs which have worked very much in our favour?
Is an invasion of Linux / IBM / Sun continent feasible in the near future (I'm thinking mech inf with bombers)
wont be able to play straight away - its feast time

 

[Sima Qian]

@Tupac: I wasn't expecting to take over those cities with just 12 infantry, I figured it would be enough to pillage the oil and delay their production of oil-based units for long enough. But you certainly did a fine job of wiping them out anyway.

Also, my intention with the trades was so that we could leech as much gpt as possible from Apple and Yahoo to fund our research, while denying them luxes so that they would have to drop into communism earlier. Of course, I have no idea how that would have worked out with the wines getting renegotiated.

@Andronicus: I think I mentioned earlier that my preferred victory conditions are, in order: domination, conquest, space race.

 

[tupaclives]

Yeah, I wasn't real happy about the lux deal either but if we hadn't done it we wouldn't have had enough cash to maintain research at that rate. With the extra 2 turns it was taking at 10% less i suspect we would have probably only just got mass production at the end of my turnset there. Not like thats a tragedy or anything but every little bit helps. Also I don't see how Apple is going to go commie as there is no way they'll acumulate enough WW as they almost certainly won't lose any cities. With Linux no longer able to produce tanks that likelihood drops even more. the same goes for yahoo.
How are we planning for them to get enough WW to have to go commie?

 

[Tone]

Should we continue these MPPs which have worked very much in our favour?

No one else has commented on this. I haven't looked at the save so how's our WW? If it is not so good, we may want to just let them run until we are ready to take peace. Then make sure that we cancel the deals as we take peace.

WW for the AI is a bit messed up and I can't remember all the details. However IIRC, what happens is that when at war with an AI they suffer just the same as us. i.e. if we lose troops, WW gets worse for them as well as us! At the moment, if we are fine, then so are they. If we pull out though, then WW works as it should (no problems in AI-AI WW) and I imagine that they will have been hit quite badly, especially Linux. Can anyone confirm/correct this?

If the above is true we may want to pull out of these wars.

Then again, if our goal is domination/conquest, maybe we should carry on with them for another 20 turns. Renew and continue the conflict with two valuable allies.

I'll look at the save later and then say what I'd go with. I hope that I'll not be too late!

 

[Andronicus]

No hurry - I'm half way through another SG turneset at present