SSE / WE Walkthrough for BtS (Immortal, HC, Insane Series)

[obsolete]

Hmm, talk about nukes. –86 rating on Asoka alone for nuking him, plus another –6 for nuking a couple of his friends. I can’t say I was aware Firaxis could even allow negative ratings to go so high. I assume they’ll fix that after one of their coders reads this walkthrough.

 

[obsolete]

I guess this was no surprise we’d win for top city again. And to think with such a small population too. In fact, I have so many wonders, it’s a good thing they have a scrollbar built in on that page.

And so ends the story….

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Taking until past 1950 to launch despite doing a successful Quechua rush and having a financial CE... well, I guess it's not that bad for someone doing his first CE ever and on Immortal. Still took me aback a bit.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Hi Obsolete, well done once again.

So what do you think about Bts is it more challenging, more fun to play than warlords?

 

[InvisibleStalke]

Taking until past 1950 to launch despite doing a successful Quechua rush and having a financial CE... well, I guess it's not that bad for someone doing his first CE ever and on Immortal. Still took me aback a bit.

A win is a win. And an earlier spaceship win could probably have been achieved by warring more and building more cottages - but good to see that Industrious still plays up well.

But it didn't look like a CE to me. Obsolete, how useful were cottages to you? Sounds like you didn't use the cottage civics and so financial didn't really go well with the strategy.

 

[UncleJJ]

Another very interesting demonstration of the power of settled GPs combined with the Representation in producing a research and hammer powerhouse. At first I thought you were being slovenly by not growing your capital bigger... take post #26 for example Cuzco is size 13 with 27 happiness and only 17 unhappy a net 10 growth space, whatever could you be doing? ... then later I saw post #36 a mere 20 villanous unhappiness

So it seems the "exploitation" of the cavalry rush in the middle game (which your opponents accused you of before) has been replaced by a Quecha rush in the ancient age and a nuke rush in the late game

I guess it really doesn't matter too much which military tech you use as long as they're better than what the defender has and you have enough of them. It could just as easily be massed rifles or cannons and cuirassiers. I think what you're doing is essentially constructing a massive hammer factory which will be able to crank out space parts in one or two turns. The military side is just to gain enough resources to facilitate that and maybe as in this game cripple your rivals, you had decided to go for a space race right from the first turn.

Thanks for making the effort and taking the time to post this walkthrough. I very much appreciate your entertaining style, it was good read

 

[obsolete]

So what do you think about Bts is it more challenging, more fun to play than warlords?

I still have a few things to master in BtS so I can't give a definite answere as of yet. I would have to say I think it is more fun for primarily 2 reasons:

#1 We can finally defy UN resolutions. That UN issue really was a bad thing in civ IV all this time, and added a lot of nonsense and broken plays.

#2 Nuking actually is viable now, unlike before where it was nerfed the instant you gained the tech to be able to do it.

On the other hand, I don't think it is more challenging. The reasons, are partly because of the above. When ever we have more options, that gives us more things to tweak in our favour, and leaves more areas where the stupid AI blunders idiotically.

But it didn't look like a CE to me. Obsolete, how useful were cottages to you? Sounds like you didn't use the cottage civics and so financial didn't really go well with the strategy.

I made quite a few cottages, but now that I think about it, I don't think I showed you guys any screen shots really of them, so that could be why. In the two capitals I had, I purposely had no cottages for a few reasons. The super fortress always has 0 cottages for obvious reasons, and the other capital had the national park, which has 0 cottages for obvious reasons. The other cities which then had cottages, were somewhat poor, so I didn't really bother showing much details on them.

How useful were the cottages to me? Not very much, I felt like they were slowing me down quite a bit. And as for the cottage civics, you are right, I didn't really use them. Reason being production is my main concern. Cottages and their civics do not go well (or work at all) for project boosting. And as the game goes on, projects become more and more important. That means, it comes down to pure hammer power.

So it seems the "exploitation" of the cavalry rush in the middle game (which your opponents accused you of before) has been replaced by a Quecha rush in the ancient age and a nuke rush in the late game

A funny thing that, I would have never guessed to use nukes so effectively back in the days of Warlords. There was only rare occasion, such as when shaka took over a whole continent where you could do this effectively. And even then, you could have still won regardless easily without nuking.

But I think BtS really almost forces you in certain spots to do this. As for the Que thing, if I had taken HC and NOT used his UU, I would have probably got 100 flame posts by now for NOT using my UU efficiently!

Again, everything is situationally dependent.

 

[obsolete]

Special Feature!!

And here, is a deleted scene taken from 1966 as Obsolete wins a space race victory.

Note that the Indian city of Pataliputra (as indicated with a star) only has a population of 2. This city, at one time was very large and was racing towards legendary culture in order to claim a culture victory for Asoka. However, due to over-nuking by her enemy, that city never was able to complete her wishes, or regain a decent population size again.

 

[madscientist]

Congrats on the win, especially on Immortal which I would never even think of touching.

I have used a modified form of the wonder-spam,settled GPs with limited cottaging (of the capital at least) and it works well. To me, seeing another example, even for BTS, doesn't convince me otherwise that it a useful situational tactic.

And that brings me to my point, can you do this with a non-industrial or philosphical leader AND starting on a coast of some sort. Early representation by getting the pyramids is just as powerful as the industrious trait for this technique in my book. I would like to see a game with a leader that has one of the 4 military traits (charismatic/agressive/protective/imperialistic) and one of the remaining (creative/spiritual/financial/expansive/organised).

Again, this is not a knock on the technique but I think it's rather situational, depends on the leaders traits and starting position.

 

[obsolete]

After this game, I realized I still did mistime and misplay a few things with HC. I want to take another crack at him some more and get things right.

After I get any time to do a deity wt for BtS, I'll see who else and what else to try.

So many leaders to experiment with, and so little time...


Though for now, I almost forgot. I owe you guys some saves for proof of purchase:


Initial
Liberalism Race
Statue of Liberty
Manhattan Project
Victory

 

[slobberinbear]

Hi, new to the Obsolete WonderSpam (tm) threads. Forgive my ignorance on some questions:

I noticed during the BC period your research got down to 20% or so, and I didn't see you running scientist specialists. How were you getting research, since you don't lightbulb?

Were you using the Korean capitol to produce military units while Cuzco built wonders?

If you didn't have an early UU, would you have used axes, swords, or waited for medieval techs?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ShredZ]

Nice game, I only really have one question:

Did you often bribe the AI to war against each other (before you had vassals and all that) or did you just let the AI have religous wars against themselves on their own doing? Can you elaborate, how many times do you bribe the AI per game (on average), and during what age do you find youre able to do so?

TIA, look forward to the next one~

 

[cheffster]

Very Entertaining walkthrough as usual (I love reading them)
I was really surprised to see you were using inca (my favourite civ) and didn't build any cottages in your capital!

Guess thats your strat, and you're bias against cottages, but they aren't synonymous with lightbulbing. I NEVER NEVER NEVER waste GP on lightbulbing, but I do find cottages extreamly powerfull with a financial civ early on. I suppose if you decide to keep representation during the late game that a farm enables you to run another scientist giving +6 beakers, but still, 8 commerce from that town before modifiers is about +24 beakers not to mention that +1h with US (which after a certain point far outwieghs rep, unless theres nothing to worthwhile to build)

I'm also surprised you like building Oxford/Ironworks in your capital not getting national epic, yes NE gives that +1 Ga pollution, but I rarely have artists arrive my capital when I JUST build NE in it and save the parth, broadway, Rock'n roll, taj'mahal, etc for my other other cities. +100% GP rate is HUGE early in the game, especially with all those wonders, its like having 18 turns for a GP cut down to 12 turns (with the parthenon). If I do end up having a few Great Artists, I just burn em on golden ages (esp since you can start your 1st golden age with just 1 GP). You don't get Ironworks/oxford till later on (when you have a few other decent cities to build one of em in anyways) and a bonus earlier in the game >>> then later in the game. I dont use national part often (the game is already won or lost by the time it comes availible, and I usually cottage down all the forests anyways), and the whole concept of a GP farm outside your captial is forgien to me, since I wonderspam my captial from the getgo.

I play BTS on immortal too, and most often use inca with a mixed wonder/specialist/cottage economy (lots of settled GP, most wonders built, and mass cottages/towns) and find NE + Ironworks works best in my capital, then Oxford/Wallstreet on a costal floodplained city (if this is possible, but at least a 5-7 floodplains or a costal with good food) which brings in far more commerce once I switch to Free Speech / Universal Sufferage. I often dread moving from rep/beauracracy, but most often I find my overall reseach is boosted and I end up gaining more $/hammers per turn, but timing is everything, and you need at least 2-4 good cities with cottage spam, and hopefully some nice sized costal cities (since costral trade is significantly boosted in BTS with customs house)

 

[iamnleth]

This economy seems unbeatable, although I haven't tried it... it nearly renders others obsolete (heh... get it?). But 1900s seems a bit late for a space race, is it because you're running specialists? What if you combined that capital with a cottaged empire (I know, I know... you hate them).

 

[Johan^^]

First of all, like your strategy and this series.

Though this particular one aint great at all... You play inca and make good use of the UU, but lets face it.... Inca UU just gets better on higher levels due to the amount of archers the AI has early.

You (obsolete) complained about the starting position in the Flying dutchman game beeing way to easy and that it would make the deity difficult equal to Monarch... Try look at your own game here ... this should then be compared to noble or less.
(This should be interpreted as a challange to do a walkthrough of the Flying Dutchman game or a new game with the Dutch if you have read and got to much info in advance on that game..)


The game was almost won before AD with this start.... so ... Why did you finish the game ? instead of moving a level up ?


If new people really are to learn alot from this series it would help out alot if you did a more complete analysis of your starting position and your build order until 2000BC/(1000BC) or so... How you do the chopping/whipping to max out

Last word ... Nice series of walkthroughs

 

[Indiansmoke]

This economy seems unbeatable, although I haven't tried it... it nearly renders others obsolete (heh... get it?). But 1900s seems a bit late for a space race, is it because you're running specialists? What if you combined that capital with a cottaged empire (I know, I know... you hate them).

1900's late for space, normal speed on immortal???? I don't think so.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Very Entertaining walkthrough as usual (I love reading them)

I play BTS on immortal too, and most often use inca with a mixed wonder/specialist/cottage economy (lots of settled GP, most wonders built, and mass cottages/towns) and find NE + Ironworks works best in my capital, then Oxford/Wallstreet on a costal floodplained city (if this is possible, but at least a 5-7 floodplains or a costal with good food) which brings in far more commerce once I switch to Free Speech / Universal Sufferage. I often dread moving from rep/beauracracy, but most often I find my overall reseach is boosted and I end up gaining more $/hammers per turn, but timing is everything, and you need at least 2-4 good cities with cottage spam, and hopefully some nice sized costal cities (since costral trade is significantly boosted in BTS with customs house)

Universal surfage gives towns +1 + spend gold to rush production. Nothing to do with research or commerce!
You can change bureaucracy to free speech, especially if no cottages in capital, but no need to change representation (if you are running specialists) as the production bonus is erelevent at that stage.

 

[Indiansmoke]

After this game, I realized I still did mistime and misplay a few things with HC. I want to take another crack at him some more and get things right.

After I get any time to do a deity wt for BtS, I'll see who else and what else to try.

So many leaders to experiment with, and so little time...

What you have to try is Agg AI. Large stacks of enemy units, make you think twice about wonders or military.

 

[obsolete]

After this game, I realized I still did mistime and misplay a few things with HC. I want to take another crack at him some more and get things right.

After I get any time to do a deity wt for BtS, I'll see who else and what else to try.

So many leaders to experiment with, and so little time...


Though for now, I almost forgot. I owe you guys some saves for proof of purchase:


Initial
Liberalism Race
Statue of Liberty
Manhattan Project
Victory

Hi, new to the Obsolete WonderSpam (tm) threads. Forgive my ignorance on some questions:

I noticed during the BC period your research got down to 20% or so, and I didn't see you running scientist specialists. How were you getting research, since you don't lightbulb?

Were you using the Korean capitol to produce military units while Cuzco built wonders?

If you didn't have an early UU, would you have used axes, swords, or waited for medieval techs?

Thanks in advance.

20% is still 20%. That's good enough, and it's bound to pick up as time goes on.

Yes, the Korean capital was used to pump out military units so my other capital could work mostly on the WE.

Without an early UU, I would most probably have gone a peaceful expansion route here. Wang is very dossile early, it's only in the late stages do you get problems with him.

 

[obsolete]

Nice game, I only really have one question:

Did you often bribe the AI to war against each other (before you had vassals and all that) or did you just let the AI have religous wars against themselves on their own doing? Can you elaborate, how many times do you bribe the AI per game (on average), and during what age do you find youre able to do so?

TIA, look forward to the next one~

I try not to bribe if I can set up a religious war instead. I don't like giving away techs, only to have the AI make peace right after, and be so much more advanced. The AI is often able to do FAKE wars too, so you are mostly getting really screwed in the bargains. Religious wars are always legit though.

Generally, if I CANT get a religious war going, I"ll keep bribing. I can't really give an average, it's so game dependant. Sometimes they'll just keep warring on their own, and other times I have to keep forcing them every 10 turns or so.

And since I have hardly played any BtS games so far, even a rough estimate now would be possibly leading you astray.