ST5 - The Wall Must Fall

I'd say go ahead and ally with the Mongols. I don't think they're terribly likely to take Entremont themselves within 20 turns. They're still fighting Japan too (right?), and do remember that the Celts get the new Great Wall effect of walls in every city. And if the Mongols still don't have any resources, they'll be attacking with crappy units (although still large stacks of them.)

I'd probably go with an RoP through Mongolia instead of by boat. Shipping requires 30 shields of boat for every two units that go over, which isn't a very good proposition.

Tenochtitlan can still grow every 2 turns if we want, and won't be trying to build up infrastructure (aqueduct and marketplace) anytime soon. So it can still put out workers at a decent clip, which I think is enough to cover our whole civ given a bit of time. Maybe it should farm workers every 2 turns for a bit to put out 4-5 of them?
 
I agree on the workers, it is the most critical shortcoming of our lands. I had to chose between workers and settlers though, and I think settlers was worth it.

We have two cities with food bonus, and we ought to be able to crank workers quite fast once all lands are settled.

Grimjack
 
ST5

550 BC (0): Sign MOngols to a ROp for 17 gold. Sell them Currency for 40 gold, gems and WM. He is now polite. With 7 more turns before the iron is hooked up I opt to move the jags from the Eastern city out and head them south.

530 BC (1): Teoti builds a jag starts a worker. Tlateloco builds a jag starts a courthouse. Fire scientist, up research to 10% and lux to 0%.

510 BC (2): Celt hired the Chinese to attack us we are now at war with china. Tenochtitlan builds a jag starts a worker.

490 BC (3): Elite Jag chases down a chinese warrior/settler pair and produces a great Leader [dance]! Now do we hold him until we get some Celt territory for a FP?? Sending him home for now, don't want to leave him with only a single jag as protection. Moving our poaching settler to what used to be Edo.

470 BC (4): Greece demands TM and 37 gold. Not wanting to take on hops with jags I cave. Tenochtitlan builds a worker starts jag. Teoti worker completed starts a settler for another poaching. Rethink sending Jags to their death and turn the jag stack back for upgrading, also bringing the leader and 2 workers home. Found Aztacapolco in the jungel near the gems. Not sure if it shouldn't have been on Edo's ruins but didn't want to have to wait for the wounded Mongol archer to move. Starts on walls.

450 BC (5): Calix build a jag starts an spear. Iron will hookup in 2 more turns.

430 BC (6): Tenochtitlan builds a jag starts another. Iron will hookup next turn. Our leader producing jag is killed by a celt horse in Mongol territory.

410 BC (7): Tenochtitlan builds our last jag and starts a spear. Texcoco builds a spear starts a temple. Tlacopan completes its barracks and starts a jag, its not connected just yet. Begin doing the upgrades. We can uprade a little less than half right now. 9 in Teoti get new weapons.

390 BC (8): Moving the Eastern jags west for upgrading at some point. The leader is in the eastern city. Move out the stack of Nine swords.

370 BC (9): China wants peace and I see no reason not to take it. Give up currency and get Lit. Tenochtitlan builds a spear starts a horse. Atzaco build walls starts temple.

350 BC (10): Trade Lit to Babs for chump change but will allow another upgrade. The leader is in the capital and I strongly think we may want to take the great library at this point. I was unable to afford any deals on techs and used our gold for upgrades. Another settler is ready next turn to take more land in the SW. I was able to add 2 new workers and 2 new slaves. :( Missed the whip in Tlax though.

Here is the save: http://civfanatics.net/uploads5/ST5_350BC.zip

Edit: I played before reading all the comments, I didn't ally with the mongols, and didn't set up the capital as a worker farm (2 things T-Hawk can change now) I was reluctant to put the mongols into a war with the celts as I think the celts would push into them hard. Maybe I am wrong on this but it can we can ally now. On the worker farm I still wanted to push jags for now before the iron got hooked up.
 
NewDestroyer is up now, but if he doesn't claim it by Monday evening, I'll take it then and play.

I think the Great Library is indeed the natural choice for the Leader. We'll be in enough wars long enough that we'll see another before the Celts are eliminated, and then we can set up the FP over there somewhere.

Building jags out of Tenoch for a was okay, too; now it can be a worker farm for a while now that the other cities are on their feet and able to build swordsmen.

NewDestroyer << Up Now
T-hawk << On Deck
 
Inherited turn:

The GL moves to Texcoco and rushes the Great Library there. The culture will do us good in the border city, and Texcoco doesn't waste 10 accumulated shields as Tenochtitlan would. This will get us Monarchy and we will revolt next turn, so I'll make changes with that in mind.

Tenochtitlan swaps to spearman to finish this turn before we revolt.

Ye gods, are we still pitifully short on workers, but I can't do much about that just yet. Why are we wasting the ones we've got, though? Clearing jungle and forest at Tlatelolco while the city's got ten unimproved flatland squares?

==========

330 BC: Great Library is completed. I look for chances to whip before the revolt, but the only good one is the 30-shield harbor in Xochi.

Babylon declares war on Greece. As if this game needed more carnage. :lol:

The GL brings in both Monarchy and Republic, and that's actually quite a tough call right now. I decide to go with Republic, as we're still a ways away from any war weariness, our cities are small enough to pacify with our three luxuries and maybe an import or two, and we do need cash, bigtime, to keep upgrading jaguars.

310 BC: I trade Republic to Babylon for Silks (he'll get the tech soon anyway), and Monarchy to 3CC Japan for some change and a worker (which we could still REALLY use.)

We need 10% lux for now, and are making +4/turn income, but this will improve (eventually.)



Middle turns: Athens completes Hanging Gardens and Babylon completes Great Lighthouse. Tenochtitlan and Teoti are both set up as every-other-turn worker farms. Our swordsman stack is marching through Mongolia, but is taking losses along the way and isn't going to have enough force to take any Celtic cities yet.

We defend against a motley bunch of warriors and archers trying to attack Texcoco. We also nail a Celtic settler pair in Mongol territory (where they were going I have no idea), and put the slaves to work building roads through the jungle for us.



Late turns: Feudalism comes for free, and woohoo! Babylon's got 49 + 18/turn to pay us for it! That'll be a good number of MDI upgrades! :goodjob: :hammer:

The workers are trying to get irrigation through to Tlatelolco by chopping the forests by Tlacopan. The south workers are trying to build roads for our MDI to use once we upgrade the dozen jaguars that are still in Teoti.

Teoti and Texcoco should try to grow and build marketplaces, as we still need some economic power. Keep Tenoch pumping workers until we have about 30. The rest of the cities need aqueducts, so they're probably better off pumping military instead. Don't build many MDIs now; build horsemen for later upgrades.

We have a stack of swords holding a mountain in Mongol territory. They're holding off incoming Celtic units fairly well, but aren't going to be able to advance farther without reinforcements.

st5-150bc.jpg


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/st5-150bc.zip
 
It's quiet around here, too quiet.

I didn't accomplish much this turn, I'm afraid. Tenochtitlan kept pumping workers. I forgot to consider the forest chop, which came in mid-cycle, unfortunately. But, it should be back to 2/2 now.

The gallic near Tlatelolco caused no end of trouble. I couldn't kill him with a one-movement unit, since it would retreat, and it would attack as soon as it got to three hitpoints. It took me a little while to wise up, and in the meantime, he killed two MDI and a spear. What's worse is that I didn't see that we had workers down by Ulaanbaatar, and I let those ones get captured. :cry: I really didn't notice them until they were gone, sorry. I blame the green!

The Japanese took a real beating. At the end of my turn, they were down to one city. After Osaka got razed, the Mongols sent a settler pair towards those horses just to its north. They have horses from somewhere, but I think they're an import. I wasn't about to let them get some of their own if I could help it. Well, it just so happened that Atz was due to grow to 3 on the next turn, and could rush a settler for around 24 gold, so I went for it. We got the site and the Mongols turned around. But, we weren't able to get there before the Greeks settled just to the south, so there is a good amount of cultural pressure on Tzintzuntzen (the new city).

I upgraded all of the jags in Teoti, except for two that I sent to the new city for flip suppression, and one or two that I sent to Tlatel after that darn gallic. The upgrades were completed on turn 9, so on turn 10 the 7 MDI started heading south.

The Celts either aren't moving many units down south, or they're staying well out of sight. After a couple of quiet turns, I headed down for a mountain in their territory. I lost a couple trying to take the mountain itself (this would have been much easier if every other AI didn't have a zillion units right there blocking us), but we're there, waiting for backup and hopefully preventing them from being able to target us in the mean time. I haven't even been able to use the Mongol roads we're paying for thanks to the heavy AI traffic. :(

There are a few Celtic units up north. There's a spear that just pillaged one of the dyes, an archer, and that darn gallic. There's a couple of horses in
Tlatel now, so we should be all right once they move into range. Also, the horses are probably much better vs. the gallics than the MDI were.

Any of our defenders of course can be upgraded if needs be. It wasn't urgent on my turn, and we might still need the money elsewhere. That new city will likely want a temple rushed at some point, for example.

I got a market built in Teoti, which I think is size 8 now.

The diplo front was dead, dead, dead. No techs came from the library. I didn't want to trade luxes with Babylon or China, since I wasn't sure that I trusted the trade routes at the moment. Japan is as good as dead, so we shouldn't trade with them. That left the Greeks and the Mongols. The Mongols were broke, and we had nothing the Greeks want. They have incense for us if we need some when WW hits. All I did was to renew the Mongols' ROP for 1gpt when they tried to cancel it. The Celts also have ROP with them, so they are making out like bandits. :p

ST5 The AD Years

edit- fixed link, hopefully
 
i will try to play tonight. not 100% sure if i can.

unfortunately, soon enough i will be without internet access for a week or two as i make my move to calgary. i found my place and take possession on the 1st, however, due to my usually inexplicable bad timing i have to move out of my current place by next wednesday! :eek: so it looks like i'll be staying in a motel for a week with no internet, but plenty o' time to play my epic 36 game :)
 
yah, all i have to say is just...

wait'll you see the hair-brained, off-the-wall, cukoo strategy i came up with to finish off my game :)

it'll take me alotta time to play it out, too :)
 
sorry guys, i've actually been ousted sooner than expected. i am in a motel w/o net access :(

i'm posting this from a computer at the local Future Shop to tell y'all that i'll be out of commission until whenever i can get internet hooked up in my new place, that i don't move into until oct 1st. sorry.
 
See it, will most likely get it and play tonight.

Grimjack
 
Fairly quiet turn building up for next leader, or perhaps leader after that.

ST5-50AD

Preturn. The gallic spear near Tlateco will likely step on our Dyes. I move a Medieval out to guard it.
Sacrifice three food in Tlateco in order to get the Pikeman in one turn. ( No growth. NOt three food starvation. )
Xochi gets a taxman or scientist as it was about to riot.
Tenochtitlan is at 7 fpt and 6 spt and size 5. Will see if I can get it to size 6 instead for the extra 2 gpt the size increase will give.
There is a trade open with Alexander, trading our only gems for his Incense and 2 gpt. I do not take it though, as I dislike feeding the leader. He is far enough ahead anyway.
Babylon has monotheism and money, Greece has engineerign and incense, rest are broke. Can get peace and mono from Celts for 21 gpt, and I am inclined to take this offer. Will double check on why we are warring with them first. I would much rather be fighting mongols. Then we could get some real estate.
Aaa of course, Entremont has built the Great wall. Of course we will war with him.

IBT: Mongols and Japan signs peace. Wee.. Get Monotheism from Library.
Tlatelolco Pikeman -> Pikeman ( Was tempted by both horse and worker, but think we need a few defenders if we are to war in a afr away land. )
Texcoco Granary->worker

70AD Look in vain for some catapults to soften the celt vet spear before I attack with my horses. ( Think retreat is more important than firepower. )
Lose three-zero and retreat. Second horse lose 4-1 and dies :( Our medieval is up to the task though, and wins 3-0 and promotes to elite.
Send the pikeman out to guard our dyes. Toy for 0.3 secs setting up research for Chivalry. Our three horses would be a great charge :)
With Tenochtitlan at size 6, I realize why the cycle was at size 5. Need to up luxtax, or buy a luxury.
Get Incense, 14 gpt and 70 gold from Greece for Monotheism. Rush the horseman in Tlacopan.

IBT: Celts come offering peace to us. I ask him if he is ready to dismantle and burn Entremont for it, but he decline.
Fortified pike in Jungle defeats an attacking Medieval while suffering one hit.
Greeks destroy Japan.
Teoti Horseman->Horseman Reoptimized for growth in one. Do not think I will lose a turn on the horse. Tlacopan Horseman->Horseman
Lose Silks

90AD Pay 3 gpt and a lux renewing our silks deal with Babylon. I hope he will not go to war with China soonish.
Do some fiddling with borrowed tiles between Tlacopan and Texcoco to maximize growth. Our Swordsmen in Celtish lands retreat, as I do not like the big stack of Medievals that just showed up.

IBT: Our elite sword defeats the regular medieval attacking him while losing only one. :hammer:
Celts tries to extort Engineering from Greece, and in a stroke of genius declare war on greece........
Tenochtitlan WOrker->Worker Tlaxcala Horseman->Horseman

110AD Our ELite Medieval strikes at the menacing supergallic crack infiltrators, and manages to defeat them ni a costly battle to the last man. This is a MAN however. Itzcoatl is ours. :hammer:
ST5_Itzy.jpg

I am greedy though, and do not rush SUnTzu at once. Switch Temple in Atz to Harbor and rush it, before sending Itz there. SUn Tzu is enough of a culture boost.
Our horsemen deal with the remaining Celtish archers, and our borders are clear once again.
Babylon has learnt Theology, and I suspect that if he were not at war with greeks, he could have used that to break greece's monopoly on Engineering.

IBT: Tlatelolco Pike->Pike Atzca Harbor->SunTzu ( We can selfbuild Forbidden Palace. SUnTzu is a leader only wonder. )
Texcoco worker->catapult

130AD Rush SunTzu in Atza. During our swordsman retreat, our elite defeats another Medieval for the celts. WIll hopefully soon meet up with reinforcements though.
Change the Taxman in Tzin to a Scientist. You never know, even a 40 turn might come in with so few nations researching.
Rush the temple in Tzin to get ahead in the culture war with Greece.

IBT: See some greece troops venture close to our borders. Libray coughs up Engineering. Tenoch Worker->Worker, Teoti Horseman->HOrseman. Tzin Temple->SPear, Atzca SunTzu->Granary, Calix Horseman->Harbor
Greeks cascade to Leos, Babs to Sistine, and Celts lose their shields.

150AD Our advancing Medievals find a Celtish Settler/spear pair. Great. Thats two more much needed slaves. Celts have stopped pursuing our swordsmen, so I will let them heal out here in the desert.

IBT: Tenoch WOrker->Worker

170AD Continue retreat with our beleaguered swordsmen. no less than 6 medievals are hunting them now. ( Or else the medievals are heading fopr greece. That would be good. )
Make some 30 bucks selling our barracks.

IBT: Teoti Horseman->Horseman Tlacopan Horse->Horse Tlacopan Horse->Horse

190AD Our forces meet up in Mongolia, and now we will not run any more.

IBT: Tlateloloc Pike->Pike

210AD RNG is not nice this time, as I first lose one of our two elite swordsmen against a Medieval, and then lose a medieval against a spearman.

IBT: Lose one swordsman against Medieval counterattack, and then we win against another. Tenoch worker->worker Texcoco Catapult->Catapult ( Want two on defense. )

230AD Lose another medieval defeating three of the celt medievals.

IBT: Tenoch Worker->WOrker Teoti HOrseman->HOrseman, Tlacopan Horseman->HOrseman

250AD Tryign to collect our forces in the south on a mountain for healing, and waiting for the pikemen that are soon here.
Have also a combat settler that could settle in the desert if we wanted a forward base to heal in.
Tried to build our army up for a knight rush. We are up to 12 horsemen now. There is a medieval east of the troops in the south.
Would feel good to build some infra now, but I suspect we will need another coupld of knights before we can start atatcking, considering there is a wall in every city in celtish lands.

Grimjack

Save
 
Sun Tzu - good!

Yes, we'll need knights, if not cavalry, to really break through and capture Entremont. Remember that muskets are 5 defense in the tweaks mod, as well. This is exactly what we want to be testing. :goodjob:

Celts tries to extort Engineering from Greece

How do we know that happened? Were you just inventing a storyline for it?
 
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