Stand-off at the UN!!

[Ankka]

Yes, we shouldn't build military as first cghoice, but onlyu when nothing else is needed in the particular city...

 

[deshelbr]

I think we should stick to the opinions we had before this came up in the UN. We obviously don't have a fundamental problem with this game mechanic being legal. If it was deemed illegal it would be unfair to us, as each of the other four teams have engaged in this activity in some way. We also believe that Gamecatcher shouldn't be allowed to stay in the game unless they are going to make "in-game" peace with us.

More importantly, if we go back and do the turns over it can only hurt Netatolia, which we have already decided is not what we want. If we press for the continuation of the game as it is now we will be in the better position.

I also don't think we should be completely silent on this. We might be viewed by Mongoose, Webringes, Apolyton, and Netatolia as the impartial observer in this matter. We know how Gamecatcher will regard our opinion.

 

[Ankka]

Yes, I think we should say something there too. We have been almost forgotten in this mess.

 

[NeoDemocrat]

being ignored is expected being such a small country

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

I think that we will someday need a big milatary after the war in the west is done. I think we need to get out of APO's shadow and become a real nation with a milatary backing our word.

 

[NeoDemocrat]

you've stated the same thing about a billion times on a million different threads...

 

[DaveShack]

Here is an update on progress toward resolving this situation in the UN thread. It seems that most / all remaining teams other than us have agreed to replay starting at 390AD, with mass teleportation by gifting cities banned. Also it looks like GCA will disband some units as reparations for using the teleport previously, and would also be forced to accept in-game peace to reset WW.

I haven't been around very much before now, how do we handle officially responding to these types of discussions, now that a quasi-official proposal is on the table?

 

[Zarn]

If everyone is pretty much set on this one proposal, we should go with it. If either ally (of ours) disagrees (lets face it, CGN is NOW our ally and GWT is NOW our enemy), then we would have to go from there. We just have to make sure Poly and CGN aren't completely screwed.

 

[GenMarshall]

Well now the GCers will have to be forced to sign a peace treaty with us.

 

[Hygro]

Originally posted by Emp.Napoleon
I think that we will someday need a big milatary after the war in the west is done. I think we need to get out of APO's shadow and become a real nation with a milatary backing our word.

Even if we only built Riders, and Apolytan went the complete economical route, I don't think we could take half their empire before they built up such a giant force to take back their cities, and then quickly take the rest of ours.

If we want to fight them militarily, we first need to expand, and then have a powerful commerce and production economy.

 

[DaveShack]

Originally posted by CivGeneral
Well now the GCers will have to be forced to sign a peace treaty with us.

From the way Lucky is talking, this would only be in-game peace. They don't seem to be interested in treaties, though that would be up to the Foreign Office.

 

[Zarn]

I would only go for in game peace. Any formal treaty outside the game would be bad. It would be saying that they are worthy of existance.

 

[deshelbr]

DZ! Zarn! Get in there and say something. They are starting to take notice that we aren't involved in the discussion. Get the game moving again.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

OK, I wrote this at the UN, highlighting my previous post on Page 3 of the thread. We are now on Page 7.

Also, I gave them a deadline of Monday for us to come to a consensus. So, do you guys agree with what I presented? Hop it makes sense.

Donovan from CFC here.

I had this to say waaaay back on Page 3 of this thread. Other than that, I really haven't had the time to stay active in the discussion.

I just spent the last half hour responding to several points brought up in this thread, but when I hit enter, it vanished. iss: I miss my old browser. :cryscrm:

So now you get the paraphrased version, which is probably a relief to the readers of this thread.

Basically, I agree with this outlook:

How I would handle...I would allow the 'what's good for hte goose is good for the gander' ruling. I would leave the game as is and ban further use of these exploits and move on. Anything other than that is just asking for trouble down the road, IMHO. One way or the other the game should go on.

I am as against the implausibiltiy of "time travel" to replay disputed events as much as I am against the implausibilty of trans-continental teleportation, especially when the latter is virtually impossible under regular circumstances until Navigation. Besides, the exploit was ruled legal during a previous instance and no effort was made to remove it from the game at that time.

I believe that since everyone playing here(except us ) have dirtied their hands with this, it is time to call it even and put it to rest for the remainder of the game. But if Mongoose is to declare teleportation wrong and decides to erase the current situation via replay, then I think it would only be fair that reparations be made for the previous instance as well.

But truth be told, I really don't want to go through all of that. What's done is done. So let's continue the game from the current save, knowing that this will be the last time that the (currently legal) practice of teleportation will be used in this game.

....and yes, this was the paraphrased version.

We are currently discussing this matter at CFC, but since we are not directly involved in the latest conflict, I think we can abide by any concensus. I do think that if GWT is willing to let the game progress from 420 AD, then we should try to work to those ends. I feel that going back three turns to retrace our steps (or drastically change them) based on knowledge of those three turns has a chance to cause even more confusion and dissention.

So even after 4 pages of further discussion, I still personally abide by what I wrote previously. I will get consensus from the team by Monday.

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

Well if city gifting is not allowed anymore than I don't think we can do that great lighthouse trick to get to the west.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

EN, I think that city gifting would still be allowed as long as units weren't teleported in the process.

And since no one objected to what I wrote previously, I have decided to add another post in the forum(early part of page 8 ). If you find this unaaceptable, you need to let me know.

Here it is:

I find it ironic that the two teams that brought this issue to the fore are now the only ones who can't live with its results. And to further add to that, the two teams that have the most to lose from the most recent teleport have claimed that they can live with it.

So, I guess in a way, this would give the neutral party, CFC, the deciding vote in this bizarre turn of events.

As far as I am concerned, we should continue play from 440 AD. Going back and correcting injustices from 390 AD would prove to be more harmful than accepting the current results, not to mention that there doesn't seem to be a workable consensus on the horizon in regards to wiping the slate clean of all past teleports.

First of all, replaying the outset of GWT/CGN hostilities would be a sham. The beginning stages of the war would now become: Are they going to move their units to that square again or not? The tables could now turn based on who made the first wrong guess.

Secondly, GWT has accepted the fact that this latest event makes up for the last teleport by GCA, and in my opinion that settles it. Regardless of how these actions have affected the game, they are now quite obviously hardwired into it. I don't think we should sweep them under the rug like they never happened. Plus, I must admit, I really want to see what happens next with GWT advancing on Apolyton's new cities. Will APO be forced into the war by this action or not? It adds and exciting new facet to the game that would be gone if we negated it.

Finally, I am a bit disappointed in the mindset that you should try to make a symbolic move in the hopes that it will be removed from the game. Once that move is made, one should be ready to accept the results should they stand. So, CGN and APO, let's move forward from 440 AD knowing that you got the last word regarding teleportation. And let's rid ourselves of it from this point forward.

My two cents, and it looks like this will be our official stance as well. So where do we go from here?

 

[Ankka]

I would have said it almost like that too. I like the post.

 

[deshelbr]

I 100% support that and I think most everyone else around here does too.

 

[Zarn]

I doubt anyone HERE would go against that. You have the support of the Foreign Affairs Ministry.

 

[Hygro]

And my branch of the citizenry.