Sorry for te necromancy, but I'm having issues with this mod I'm not aware of how to resolve. Many of the units have the wrong graphics in game. I can place them using the editor where the appropriate graphics show up, but then while playing the game the wrong graphic shows up. Any help is greatly appreciated!
Star Trek mod - The Next Generation!
- Thread starter Flamand
- Start date
Flamand
The Visible Elder!
The units32 file does not contain all the ships in the game. It's one of the many things that still need to be looked after...
Flamand
The Visible Elder!
Thanks... 
Looking through 28 pages of posts I found no reference to this: when I try to load any of the maps I get this message "Load Error/Missing entry in text\PediaIcons.txt\ICON_BLDG_Homeworld\This game will now exit" and it does.
Flamand
The Visible Elder!
Strange... you are the first to report this, so I think your PediaIcons.txt might be corrupt. Try downloading it from the first post in this thread and replacing yours with that one... 
Lamabreeder
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 11, 2004
- Messages
- 54
This is a very great mod. Starting this mod felt like starting a different, great Star Trek based game. My thanks to you creators for your vast efforts! I very much appreciate it!
However, I have some issues with the mod. None of it diminishes my overall apreciation, but perhaps can lead to some improvements. My issues can be divided in issues with the maps and issues with the rules (tech and units).
Maps
I started the big map only to discover that on my slow computer the experience was not enjoyable. The small maps, however, while satisfactory fast, seem to not have gained nearly as much attention as the big one. I started with the Federation - seemed appropriate to me as a first try -, so there might be other issues that I have not yet discovered.
1 The 9-civ-map:
1.1 Federation starts in a system with no possibility to get to the next system (before Astrometry), since there is a two-field space gap, and transport speed has been reduced to two as compared to the big map. I personally do not find it enjoyable to sit several dozen turns around doing nothing. Easily fixable.
1.2 Federation has very little space for expansion, especially when compared to the so-called minor races. A simlar problem seems to exist with the Klingons and Cardassians and perhaps others, too. I would expect for the minor races to have little expansion room while the protagonist races have the possibility to found some colonies without Astrometry. (Only 1-field space gaps between systems.) Easily fixable.
1.3 There seem to be ressources for the sole purpose of labeling fields. While I think this idea is very clever, it clutters the Civilopedia up unnecessarily. Especially since these ressources are made strategic ones. I see in the big map this problem does not exist, so perhaps easily fixable?
My first issues have (mostly) been resolved with the 12-civ map, however, by introducing new ones:
2.1 The initialization of the players has not been correctly updated. This leads to the strange effect that there are three slots open for civs when starting a game, and the civs chosen here will gain additional starting units at random locations, additonal to the pre-placed cities. This is easily fixable. In fact I would recommend to introduce not 12 but 13 civs, since exactly that many are pre-placed on this map. First, in the editor, choose 13 civs in the scenario-properties, scenario tab. Then choose the player tab, and go through the additional 4 players. Select colonists and reduce the number to zero. Problem fixed. I played on this map after I fixed it this way.
2.2 The placements of some civs is unfortunate. I understand that here gameplay precedes accuracy, however, placing the Vulcans further away from Federation than Borg or Dominion is not something I can really understand. I am sure this can be solved much better, especially since initial ship movement is quite limited and thus systems (or interconnected clusters of systems) can be placed next to each other without enabling the respective inhabitants to interact and compete with each other.
Nothing of this affects the main mod so far, and I understand that the main focus was on the big map. Unfortunate for me, since I cannot play it.
Rules
I have some issues with the mod itself, as far as the rules between the maps do not differ (significantly, the only difference I found so far seems to be unit speed, which does make very much sense):
3.1 There could be more information in the Civilopedia. You obviously know this, so I will not delve deeper here, except for the following: The tech tree is non-intuitive, so to use everything effectively one has to study it first in detail. A short Readme-file would do wonders here, which shortly points out some basic things like importance of trade ports, Astrometry, the unability to get big cities on early, and perhaps some map specific guidance (in the way of specific instructions for optimal gameplay, i.e.: expand to the east first, build second cities in the same system later, block planets with ground units, etc.) Alternatively, you could change the tech tree, regarding my next issue.
3.2 I find that the tech tree is... impractical, at least in the ENT era (I played until the end of TOS era and have the feeling that the rest is ok). Don't get me wrong, it is very nice, aesthetical, nice tech names and ideas, and gives an appropriate Trek feeling. In this regard it is very good. But it is impractical, because you more often than not cannot use things that you have researched, because there are trade ports needed or astrometry to get to remote systems that have ressources you need to build the things you just researched. Because of the central role that trade ports play, I would place them very early in the tech tree, earlier than all things depended on them. In my first trial I for instance wasted precious time to research biospheres, only to discover that I could not use them and had actually lost time to research trade ports/astrometry. You want that colonies stay small for a long time? No problem, place biospheres at the end of the era. You want it difficult to build NX class ships? Place them at the end of the era. But please make the tech tree more practical. Effectively, the way it is now it could be more or less linear, meaning a fixed order of most techs. There are no good alternatives here. You will want to research atsrometry/trade ports first, which require more or less the same techs anyway. You don't even have to choose between trade ports and research labs, because the latter are on the trade port's way anyway. Here could be done more: Put all things with positive effects on different braches of the tree, away from the road to trade ports/astrometry. Then there are really alternatives. Then you could postpone trade ports a little to get science labs earlier, or the other way around. Incorporates more strategic thinking, more fun.
3.3 The unit system seems slightly impractical as well.
3.3 a)
3.3 b)
3.3 c)
3.4 The idea to use a race ressource to build different ship types is really very clever. So if for instance the Romulans conquer the Federation, they would be able to build Federation ships, perhaps at a higher cost, perhaps not as well, but they would be able to. It almost hurts to say the following, because this mechanism IS quite clever, but: I am not sure if this is really useful. I have a hard time to imagine a player who plays the Romulans in order to conquer the Klingons so that he finaly can build Klingon ships. If he wanted to do that, wouldn't he have started with the Klingons in the first place? Aditionally, I have a hard time imagining a Romulan senator who embraces the idea to build not their superior Romulan warships, but those of one of their inferior enemies... So in short, I think this feature, as witty as it is, is uneeded. In fact, it complicates things without giving a substantial benefit. The Civilopedia is cluttered with useless double entries only to implement this doubtful feature. It makes changing of unit statistics harder, because almost every unit has to be checked twice. It requires an additional ressource which has no (ok, one, but see below) further use.
3.5 The idea to build a Colonization program to get settlers is neat. It allows direct control over the expansion speed of a given Civilization. I have three issues with it.
3.5 a)
3.5 b)
3.5 c)
3.6 I think there are too many strategic ressources. It's difficult to get the overview. Let's see: The function of these resources is to settle on or conquer cleverly and finally hold terrain in order to build much needed units or improvements. If however there are lots of ressources then almost every part of the map becomes important - or unimportant. Additionally, if in abundance then new ressources mutate for the player to "yet another ressource" and lose their special meaning. Especially if they have similar names (Titanium, Tritanium) and properties (element, mostly metallic). The strategic importance of a ressource is further diminished, if it is located in the core of the empire (namely the homeworld) which is unlikely to ever get contested (and if, then you have problems of bigger dimensions). Ressources there make only little sense (or special sense in the case of Colonization program). Thus my proposal:
As far as I can see, ships need regularily two ressources, one of them always one of the dilithium ressources. I find the idea with the five levels of dilithium quite appealing: It is simple, easy to understand that better ships need a more refined dilithium variety and it fits the Star Trek theme very well. Quite a good idea! It also does make sense to often (but please: not always) require a second ressource, so that the task is not too simple. But I would restrain the other ressources to perhaps two different kinds. I would remove anti-matter as it is now: Located in the home-system it is no challenge to get or hold it. Perhaps relocate it, make it more difficult to aquire it, but let the more basic ship designs be built without any ressource requirements. Think standard game ancient era, which is extremely well done: only swordmen and horsemen need ressources, who are the best units of their kind. Then take one ore perhaps two other ressources, i.e. (I choose randomly) Duranium and Neutronium, and make them required for the best ship designs (together with a dilithium variety) and for some low to medium level ship designs (w/o dilithium). Make some ships require only a dilithium variety. In this way, a civ will be able to always build ships, but the better or more specialized ones only with the given ressources. (I.e. Transport/Scout/Cruiser need no ressource, destroyer needs a metal ressource, hvy cruiser dilithium variety, capital ship and warship need both.) This design is more easily understandable and I doubt that you lose much of the strategic aspects if you distribute the remaining ressources to challenging positions.
3.7 an odd thing: I discovered that the Federation had the innate ability to bribe other cities. This was both fun and appropriate, perhaps it is an even too strong feature for them, because I was able to buy almost all colonies of the minor races and even the Klingons. Which leads me the following: Is it possible to make sure that the federation can only buy the cities of later Federation members, but not Klingons or romulans? It seems the Borg are already appropriatly immune against bribes.
I hope that after this long criticism one thing is not lost: That I enjoyed the mod so far immensely - otherwise I would never have been motivated to write such a long post. Hopefully some of my thoughts are useful to you!
[edit]Oh, I forgot. One idea: Planets are very valuable, esp. foodwise. This value is lost when a colony is situated on it. This could be prevented, when cities could not be built on planets, but only asteroids (at the moment it's the other way around). This way is is, however, more difficult to block other civs from settling (but not impossible). Also perhaps existing maps would have to be checked inhowfar their balance and playability is still maintained. Just an idea, if nobody else already proposed it.[/edit]
However, I have some issues with the mod. None of it diminishes my overall apreciation, but perhaps can lead to some improvements. My issues can be divided in issues with the maps and issues with the rules (tech and units).
Maps
I started the big map only to discover that on my slow computer the experience was not enjoyable. The small maps, however, while satisfactory fast, seem to not have gained nearly as much attention as the big one. I started with the Federation - seemed appropriate to me as a first try -, so there might be other issues that I have not yet discovered.
1 The 9-civ-map:
1.1 Federation starts in a system with no possibility to get to the next system (before Astrometry), since there is a two-field space gap, and transport speed has been reduced to two as compared to the big map. I personally do not find it enjoyable to sit several dozen turns around doing nothing. Easily fixable.
1.2 Federation has very little space for expansion, especially when compared to the so-called minor races. A simlar problem seems to exist with the Klingons and Cardassians and perhaps others, too. I would expect for the minor races to have little expansion room while the protagonist races have the possibility to found some colonies without Astrometry. (Only 1-field space gaps between systems.) Easily fixable.
1.3 There seem to be ressources for the sole purpose of labeling fields. While I think this idea is very clever, it clutters the Civilopedia up unnecessarily. Especially since these ressources are made strategic ones. I see in the big map this problem does not exist, so perhaps easily fixable?
My first issues have (mostly) been resolved with the 12-civ map, however, by introducing new ones:
2.1 The initialization of the players has not been correctly updated. This leads to the strange effect that there are three slots open for civs when starting a game, and the civs chosen here will gain additional starting units at random locations, additonal to the pre-placed cities. This is easily fixable. In fact I would recommend to introduce not 12 but 13 civs, since exactly that many are pre-placed on this map. First, in the editor, choose 13 civs in the scenario-properties, scenario tab. Then choose the player tab, and go through the additional 4 players. Select colonists and reduce the number to zero. Problem fixed. I played on this map after I fixed it this way.
2.2 The placements of some civs is unfortunate. I understand that here gameplay precedes accuracy, however, placing the Vulcans further away from Federation than Borg or Dominion is not something I can really understand. I am sure this can be solved much better, especially since initial ship movement is quite limited and thus systems (or interconnected clusters of systems) can be placed next to each other without enabling the respective inhabitants to interact and compete with each other.
Nothing of this affects the main mod so far, and I understand that the main focus was on the big map. Unfortunate for me, since I cannot play it.
Rules
I have some issues with the mod itself, as far as the rules between the maps do not differ (significantly, the only difference I found so far seems to be unit speed, which does make very much sense):
3.1 There could be more information in the Civilopedia. You obviously know this, so I will not delve deeper here, except for the following: The tech tree is non-intuitive, so to use everything effectively one has to study it first in detail. A short Readme-file would do wonders here, which shortly points out some basic things like importance of trade ports, Astrometry, the unability to get big cities on early, and perhaps some map specific guidance (in the way of specific instructions for optimal gameplay, i.e.: expand to the east first, build second cities in the same system later, block planets with ground units, etc.) Alternatively, you could change the tech tree, regarding my next issue.
3.2 I find that the tech tree is... impractical, at least in the ENT era (I played until the end of TOS era and have the feeling that the rest is ok). Don't get me wrong, it is very nice, aesthetical, nice tech names and ideas, and gives an appropriate Trek feeling. In this regard it is very good. But it is impractical, because you more often than not cannot use things that you have researched, because there are trade ports needed or astrometry to get to remote systems that have ressources you need to build the things you just researched. Because of the central role that trade ports play, I would place them very early in the tech tree, earlier than all things depended on them. In my first trial I for instance wasted precious time to research biospheres, only to discover that I could not use them and had actually lost time to research trade ports/astrometry. You want that colonies stay small for a long time? No problem, place biospheres at the end of the era. You want it difficult to build NX class ships? Place them at the end of the era. But please make the tech tree more practical. Effectively, the way it is now it could be more or less linear, meaning a fixed order of most techs. There are no good alternatives here. You will want to research atsrometry/trade ports first, which require more or less the same techs anyway. You don't even have to choose between trade ports and research labs, because the latter are on the trade port's way anyway. Here could be done more: Put all things with positive effects on different braches of the tree, away from the road to trade ports/astrometry. Then there are really alternatives. Then you could postpone trade ports a little to get science labs earlier, or the other way around. Incorporates more strategic thinking, more fun.
3.3 The unit system seems slightly impractical as well.
3.3 a)
First, playing the Federation I have had for a very long time an inferior fleet. In part, this is accurate, given the representation of Earth in the ENT show. However, this does not really improve for a very long time. The AI seems to start (!) with the ability to build 3(3).3.3 ships, while the Federation (and I guess the other protagnists as well) has at the beginning none, and later on only inferior 2(2).2.2 ships. Here the player is at the minor race's mercy. Once the Andorians decided to attack me my colonies were gone faster than I could watch, and I had the feeling that the rules did not allow me to do anything against it. (Albeit the ability to simply buy the enemy after the war was comforting.) I would wish to build ships earlier on which are not as useless aganst the AI as they are now - especially with regards to the AI's ability to amass units at higher levels quite quickly which is a double disadvantage for the player. Generally it can be justified to have weaker units if you can have more of them. But here I do not see that it is really practical or possible to actually have more of them. Especially since the Minor races do not have significantly fewer cities than the protagonists. And they build faster (Emperor/Commander level).
The Federation (and I guess other protagonist races as well) has extremly weak ground units. The 1.1.1 is only half as strong as the minor's 1.2.1 defensewise. Since the technology to upgrade these is very far away, this leaves them quite vulnerable if they do not wish to build many of them in every colony - which paralyses the economy, but a necessity given the central location, to fend of possible agressors from all sides.
I was unable to conquer a Vulcan colony (size 4), defended by three base level infantry 1.2.1 with two level 2 infantry 3.4.1, accompagnied by 8 4(3).2.3 ships. The idea was extensive bombardment and finishing them off with my infantry. However, I never got the infantry below 2 hit points. The vulcans on the other hand arrived - in multiple instances - with only three 3(3).3.3. ships and a transport with two 1.2 troops and finished off one of my my colonies (outposts, but nevertheless) defended by 2 1.1 units in a single strike. In my view this is out of proportion. If I have units from the next technology level, I should at least have roughly equal combat chances. I broke off my siege, stopped the reinforcements that were underway, made peace, and then bought the Vulcan colonies. In a way this is appropriate, but I like to have the option to make war - efficiently. The aforementioned Federation unit was the spaceship class that the Enterprise in TOS had (sorry, forgot the name, Constitution?). In that era the Federation was considered to be a significant power, this ship being their strongest design. But the units in this scenario do not reflect this.
I would suggest to make the unit value changes/racial differences smoother by slightly raising the minimal values. Unit values are extremly small at the moment which means that the value grid is very rough. With very small values even an increase by 1 means a big percentaged change. Increasing 1 by 1 means to double it. Increasing 2 by 1 means to obviously only increase it by 50%. At the moment base values for ground troops seem to be 1.1 (att/def). To give the minors a slightly better stance their defense is raised by 1. The Klingons have 1 more on attack and so on. Gives values 1.1, 1.2, 2.1 respectively. If we however start with 2.2, we would get - after applying the same modifiers - 2.2, 2.3, 3.2. The differences are not that important, the advantages/disadvantages not so vast. A situation like which I described earlier not so likely to occur. Since the relative differences are not maintained with more advanced troops and ships (i.e. Klingon ground troops don't generally have double the offense value as Federation ground troops, only slightly higher), this seems for me to be appropriate. The maximum values for spaceships are as I recall not significantly higher than 10, so even doubling base values and adjusting all other values proportionally would not lead to ridiculous high numbers. But I think smaller changes would be even better - i.e. increasing all base unit values in the ENT era by 1, in TOS by 2 and so on. I can give you a complete list as proposal if you wish.
The Federation (and I guess other protagonist races as well) has extremly weak ground units. The 1.1.1 is only half as strong as the minor's 1.2.1 defensewise. Since the technology to upgrade these is very far away, this leaves them quite vulnerable if they do not wish to build many of them in every colony - which paralyses the economy, but a necessity given the central location, to fend of possible agressors from all sides.
I was unable to conquer a Vulcan colony (size 4), defended by three base level infantry 1.2.1 with two level 2 infantry 3.4.1, accompagnied by 8 4(3).2.3 ships. The idea was extensive bombardment and finishing them off with my infantry. However, I never got the infantry below 2 hit points. The vulcans on the other hand arrived - in multiple instances - with only three 3(3).3.3. ships and a transport with two 1.2 troops and finished off one of my my colonies (outposts, but nevertheless) defended by 2 1.1 units in a single strike. In my view this is out of proportion. If I have units from the next technology level, I should at least have roughly equal combat chances. I broke off my siege, stopped the reinforcements that were underway, made peace, and then bought the Vulcan colonies. In a way this is appropriate, but I like to have the option to make war - efficiently. The aforementioned Federation unit was the spaceship class that the Enterprise in TOS had (sorry, forgot the name, Constitution?). In that era the Federation was considered to be a significant power, this ship being their strongest design. But the units in this scenario do not reflect this.
I would suggest to make the unit value changes/racial differences smoother by slightly raising the minimal values. Unit values are extremly small at the moment which means that the value grid is very rough. With very small values even an increase by 1 means a big percentaged change. Increasing 1 by 1 means to double it. Increasing 2 by 1 means to obviously only increase it by 50%. At the moment base values for ground troops seem to be 1.1 (att/def). To give the minors a slightly better stance their defense is raised by 1. The Klingons have 1 more on attack and so on. Gives values 1.1, 1.2, 2.1 respectively. If we however start with 2.2, we would get - after applying the same modifiers - 2.2, 2.3, 3.2. The differences are not that important, the advantages/disadvantages not so vast. A situation like which I described earlier not so likely to occur. Since the relative differences are not maintained with more advanced troops and ships (i.e. Klingon ground troops don't generally have double the offense value as Federation ground troops, only slightly higher), this seems for me to be appropriate. The maximum values for spaceships are as I recall not significantly higher than 10, so even doubling base values and adjusting all other values proportionally would not lead to ridiculous high numbers. But I think smaller changes would be even better - i.e. increasing all base unit values in the ENT era by 1, in TOS by 2 and so on. I can give you a complete list as proposal if you wish.
3.3 b)
The idea to utilize shuttles as bombers is witty, but I am not quite happy with it. First, I imagine Star Trek shuttles mainly as dingis, not as bombers (In the cardassion neutral zone they were used as fighters only because hey had nothing else, Sisko used some bombers against the Dominion for similar reasons). Second, their role is limited to ground bombardement, as far as I can see, because they are not strong enough to hurt other vessels effectively. For this limited purpose they are simply to expensive; I prefered building more ships here. In short: While I am intruiged by the idea to use shuttles as bombers, I think this idea is impractical and should be removed completely. No reason to open up an option that - as I think - is inferior to the alternatives.
3.3 c)
A minor point. I would expect that all shiptypes which had once one ship named Enterprise would be upgradeable into each other. That is, NX class into Constitution (is that correct? Kirk's Enterprise?), not Miranda class. I understand, however, if different design principles prevent that. Small diagrams for each Race would be helpful, however. I recall that Kobayashi's Dominion War scenario had this done excellently.
3.4 The idea to use a race ressource to build different ship types is really very clever. So if for instance the Romulans conquer the Federation, they would be able to build Federation ships, perhaps at a higher cost, perhaps not as well, but they would be able to. It almost hurts to say the following, because this mechanism IS quite clever, but: I am not sure if this is really useful. I have a hard time to imagine a player who plays the Romulans in order to conquer the Klingons so that he finaly can build Klingon ships. If he wanted to do that, wouldn't he have started with the Klingons in the first place? Aditionally, I have a hard time imagining a Romulan senator who embraces the idea to build not their superior Romulan warships, but those of one of their inferior enemies... So in short, I think this feature, as witty as it is, is uneeded. In fact, it complicates things without giving a substantial benefit. The Civilopedia is cluttered with useless double entries only to implement this doubtful feature. It makes changing of unit statistics harder, because almost every unit has to be checked twice. It requires an additional ressource which has no (ok, one, but see below) further use.
3.5 The idea to build a Colonization program to get settlers is neat. It allows direct control over the expansion speed of a given Civilization. I have three issues with it.
3.5 a)
Why is this ressource not directly located on the homeworld? Come on, connecting this ressource is really not even a small challenge. No need to put it illogically further away.
3.5 b)
Why do I need a ressource for the Colonization program? Being a small wonder it can only be built once anyway. Needing the ressource of the homeworld ensures however that it cannot be rebuilt once the homeworld is lost. But how relevant is this? I gather that losing the homeworld will occur, if ever, late in the game. At this point in time I am sure the respective civilization has spread out enough so that it can be easily rationalized that it can colonize from another colony. Removing this ressource makes the Civilopedia less cluttered.
3.5 c)
Why do I need a Colonization program at all? I see that it has four functions:
- It frees the capital to build other things. I consider this to be actually an disadvantage gameplaywise. One challenge of Civ is to find the balance between settler building, unit building and improvement/wonder building. The Colonization program simplifies this challenge, which means that the game loses a (small) part of its substance and appeal.
- It ensures that only the capital can build settlers. But at least until biospheres are discovered any other colony (which is not connected to fresh water, but fresh water could be removed) is limited to size 2 and thus unable to build settlers.
- It fine-tunes the speed with which every Civ can settle. But this is controlled by other factors as well, namely available sites and competion. The size of an Empire can be controlled by making city sites available or unavailable to it. The Colonization program is not strictly necessary for this.
- It prolongs the expansion, making site selection more important than without Colonization program. The more ressources are needed, the more important is it to place cities strategically. However, the relative small number of available sites negates ths effect for the most part. The not so small number of civs and thus competitors negates it even more.
3.6 I think there are too many strategic ressources. It's difficult to get the overview. Let's see: The function of these resources is to settle on or conquer cleverly and finally hold terrain in order to build much needed units or improvements. If however there are lots of ressources then almost every part of the map becomes important - or unimportant. Additionally, if in abundance then new ressources mutate for the player to "yet another ressource" and lose their special meaning. Especially if they have similar names (Titanium, Tritanium) and properties (element, mostly metallic). The strategic importance of a ressource is further diminished, if it is located in the core of the empire (namely the homeworld) which is unlikely to ever get contested (and if, then you have problems of bigger dimensions). Ressources there make only little sense (or special sense in the case of Colonization program). Thus my proposal:
As far as I can see, ships need regularily two ressources, one of them always one of the dilithium ressources. I find the idea with the five levels of dilithium quite appealing: It is simple, easy to understand that better ships need a more refined dilithium variety and it fits the Star Trek theme very well. Quite a good idea! It also does make sense to often (but please: not always) require a second ressource, so that the task is not too simple. But I would restrain the other ressources to perhaps two different kinds. I would remove anti-matter as it is now: Located in the home-system it is no challenge to get or hold it. Perhaps relocate it, make it more difficult to aquire it, but let the more basic ship designs be built without any ressource requirements. Think standard game ancient era, which is extremely well done: only swordmen and horsemen need ressources, who are the best units of their kind. Then take one ore perhaps two other ressources, i.e. (I choose randomly) Duranium and Neutronium, and make them required for the best ship designs (together with a dilithium variety) and for some low to medium level ship designs (w/o dilithium). Make some ships require only a dilithium variety. In this way, a civ will be able to always build ships, but the better or more specialized ones only with the given ressources. (I.e. Transport/Scout/Cruiser need no ressource, destroyer needs a metal ressource, hvy cruiser dilithium variety, capital ship and warship need both.) This design is more easily understandable and I doubt that you lose much of the strategic aspects if you distribute the remaining ressources to challenging positions.
3.7 an odd thing: I discovered that the Federation had the innate ability to bribe other cities. This was both fun and appropriate, perhaps it is an even too strong feature for them, because I was able to buy almost all colonies of the minor races and even the Klingons. Which leads me the following: Is it possible to make sure that the federation can only buy the cities of later Federation members, but not Klingons or romulans? It seems the Borg are already appropriatly immune against bribes.
I hope that after this long criticism one thing is not lost: That I enjoyed the mod so far immensely - otherwise I would never have been motivated to write such a long post. Hopefully some of my thoughts are useful to you!
[edit]Oh, I forgot. One idea: Planets are very valuable, esp. foodwise. This value is lost when a colony is situated on it. This could be prevented, when cities could not be built on planets, but only asteroids (at the moment it's the other way around). This way is is, however, more difficult to block other civs from settling (but not impossible). Also perhaps existing maps would have to be checked inhowfar their balance and playability is still maintained. Just an idea, if nobody else already proposed it.[/edit]
Flamand
The Visible Elder!
Wow Lamabreeder, that is quite some report you made there... 
I would love to say that I will implement your suggestions as soon as I can, but the reality is that I'm so busy with real life that I don't have time anymore to take care of this mod. 
I would love to say that I will implement your suggestions as soon as I can, but the reality is that I'm so busy with real life that I don't have time anymore to take care of this mod. 
Logitech
A Person.
Ok, I have good news: I have internet on my game computer! (Yeah, only now..) Now, I can do stuff faster here at civfanatics. I have thus been inspired to start modding civ 3 again (This is also partly caused by infuriating failures in civ 4 modding )
SO: I am going to start working on the Star Trek mod. I will post major stuff here, while updating with major fixes/additions on this thread. My first goals are as follows:
-Modify the terrain gfx. many people have noticed that space and subspace corridor are barely noticable. I want to change that.
-Impliment as many created units as are well known. Flamand, that means I would like to have some of those units you were working on, please.
later I will address the game balancing problems/ maps/ resources/ and etc.
Now, I would like some help. Anyone think you know your Trek enough to help?
ps: flamand, I hope you don't mind that I use your Star Trek: the Mod under Civ3 Project & Mod Development.
)SO: I am going to start working on the Star Trek mod. I will post major stuff here, while updating with major fixes/additions on this thread. My first goals are as follows:
-Modify the terrain gfx. many people have noticed that space and subspace corridor are barely noticable. I want to change that.
-Impliment as many created units as are well known. Flamand, that means I would like to have some of those units you were working on, please.
later I will address the game balancing problems/ maps/ resources/ and etc.
Now, I would like some help. Anyone think you know your Trek enough to help?
ps: flamand, I hope you don't mind that I use your Star Trek: the Mod under Civ3 Project & Mod Development.
Flamand
The Visible Elder!
Hi Logitech. I have no problem that you use this thread or the ST forum for your continuation.
I have been working on a new space terrain that should improve the visibility of space. Hope to post it in a few weeks.
I have been working on a new space terrain that should improve the visibility of space. Hope to post it in a few weeks.
Logitech
A Person.
Ok, cool thanks. In that case I'll get back to work on the maps.
So, Lamabreeder, your saying you don't want to have star names resources? I thought it's a cool feature, but you are right, it takes up civilopedia and isn't important. As for other resources, it is a nessicary part of civ to claim resources, so I think Antimater should stay. I like the colonization program, but I think it's more realistic to go back to settlers. As for shuttles, I never really got to that era
, but I think that instead of getting rid of them they should have more uses, like airlifting infantry.
Which brings me to land units: There could be one of two things: a defense and offence unit upgrade paths, like normal, or the infantry have lower defense than offence. I like the latter method better, as it will require less units and less work.
By the way, the resource-specific units are there so that IF you conqure another species, you have the option to build a more diverse fleet. It's not really for the player, but for the AI (at least I thought it was )
As for the maps, I intend to make a medium size one that will have all your major species and systems in proper/generalized locations. This brings up an old point I discovered, and it is that the 'Official' Star Trek Star Charts, by Geoffrey Mandel, have major errors with it: (1: "Klach D'kel Brakt" is entered as a Klingon system. In ENT it is reffered to as the Klingon name for The Briar Patch, an interstellar nebula! (2: I would think that Delphi Ardu (the first 'meeting' place between the Federation and the Ferengi) would be somewhere between Ferengi space and the Federation, not in an outer 'arm' of the Federation! (3: I do not reacall hearing that Nimbus, the desert world which settled jointly by the Federation, Klingons, and Romulans, was as far away from Klingon territory as is shown in the Star Charts!
As a result, I think I will follow it so long as the system locations can be confirmed or at least approximated by an actuall Star Trek episode.
thanks. In that case I'll get back to work on the maps. So, Lamabreeder, your saying you don't want to have star names resources? I thought it's a cool feature, but you are right, it takes up civilopedia and isn't important. As for other resources, it is a nessicary part of civ to claim resources, so I think Antimater should stay. I like the colonization program, but I think it's more realistic to go back to settlers. As for shuttles, I never really got to that era
, but I think that instead of getting rid of them they should have more uses, like airlifting infantry.Which brings me to land units: There could be one of two things: a defense and offence unit upgrade paths, like normal, or the infantry have lower defense than offence. I like the latter method better, as it will require less units and less work.
By the way, the resource-specific units are there so that IF you conqure another species, you have the option to build a more diverse fleet. It's not really for the player, but for the AI (at least I thought it was
)As for the maps, I intend to make a medium size one that will have all your major species and systems in proper/generalized locations. This brings up an old point I discovered, and it is that the 'Official' Star Trek Star Charts, by Geoffrey Mandel, have major errors with it: (1: "Klach D'kel Brakt" is entered as a Klingon system. In ENT it is reffered to as the Klingon name for The Briar Patch, an interstellar nebula! (2: I would think that Delphi Ardu (the first 'meeting' place between the Federation and the Ferengi) would be somewhere between Ferengi space and the Federation, not in an outer 'arm' of the Federation! (3: I do not reacall hearing that Nimbus, the desert world which settled jointly by the Federation, Klingons, and Romulans, was as far away from Klingon territory as is shown in the Star Charts!
As a result, I think I will follow it so long as the system locations can be confirmed or at least approximated by an actuall Star Trek episode.
Flamand
The Visible Elder!
The Colonization Program is intended to reflect the fact that in real life it would take a while to build a ship and collect enough colonists. Perhaps you can keep the Colonization Program system in the beginning and later use settlers after a certain tech. For the minor races you should make sure they would grow too big by making their settlers very expensive...
Lamabreeder
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 11, 2004
- Messages
- 54
Hi!
@Logitech:
Considering the ressources: Of course one of the fun parts of Civ3 is to collect ressources. That means to look out for the few places that contain valueable ressources to be able to build the best available structures and units. That does not mean to just expand to everywhere/conquer everything to gain access to the 256 ressources that are absolutely needed to build anything at all (I am exaggerating, of course). In the latter case you could completely cease to incorporate ressources into the game at all and the gameplay would feel exactly the same: Just expand everywhere/conquer everything. Ressources are only interesting as long as they are special, rare and (relatively) difficult to obtain. If you need ressources for everything, they are not special anymore. If you have hundreds of them, they are not rare anymore. If you have them in your home system, they are not difficult to obtain anymore. Sometimes less is more.
(I am currently testing the also very good Rise and Rule mod, where they multiplied almost everthing by factors greather than two; from techs, wonders, city improvements over units to bonus and luxury ressources. But even they stopped at strategic ressources, and rightly so: Their number only increased very slightly.)
I, too, think, Antimatter could be an intersting ressource, but more so if it was not located in the homesystem and if it was not required for the most basic units. (Realisticly, of course, antimatter is not a ressource at all, because you create it artificially out of existing matter - but who cares.)
Shuttles: Shuttles are actually available within the first era, with spatial torpedoes. To build them, you need to have space ports, so it is indeed relatively easy to overlook them. But still, you could be able to build them with your 10th tech. I think shuttles should not be able to airlift units. Moving ground units around is already the job of transport ships. Airlifting (transporting) over too great distances would not fit into the Star Trek theme anyway. Making the troops amphibious could be sensible, though. I would simply remove the shuttles and put the space crafts into the spotlight. (Come on, what do you prefer as a player, making war with puny shuttles or Galaxy class star ships?)
Regarding the ground units: I think the focus is on space units, so I would prefer having only one kind of ground unit. It is not critical to give them higher attack values than defense, because you can (and the AI will) use space ships for bombardement. My playing experience so far has only indicated that the balance is unfavorable for the human player (the Federation, to be exact), at least in the very beginning, where they have inferior troops everywhere. This could be easily fixed by tweaking the values a bit as I already suggested and volunteered for. The Klingon ground troops for example already have higher attack than defense values.
Race-ressource requiring units: I have to disagree. First off, I have not witnessed that any AI was even close to capture the capital of another AI, even after endless warfare. I am not surprised, since the AI parks infinite numbers of ground troops in there as you can see for instance when you establish an embassy. Even if they lose everything else, it will be neigh impossible to vanquish them completely. Secondly and mainly: I do not think the game wins in any way if the Klingons utilize Romulan or Borg ship designs. If they would, my first thought as player would NOT be: "Ah, cool feature. The Klingons have finally enslaved the Borg and now send them in as cannon fodder. The designers were indeed very clever by tweaking the game engine enough to allow this feature." But: "WTF? The scenario designer has made a bug: The Klingons are using Borg ships!" Or: "WTF? Why has the designer made the Klingons use Borg ships? Has he gone mad? This is totally inappropriate!" In a Star Trek themed scenario, I would expect that any Race uses their own, and ONLY their own ships. What's the point if everybody can build everything (after certain criteria have been met)? Even if we could agree upon that this feature would enrichen the game it would still clutter the Civilopedia unnecessarily up and should in my opinion be removed solely due to this reasoning: The benefit is too small compared to the cost, the obscuring it adds to the Civilopedia. I admire the technique employed to make enslaving other Races possible, I really do, but I regretfully cannot help to come to the conclusion that it's not a beneficial addition.
In addition, neither game mechanics nor Star Trek logic support this feature: The game mechanics balance ships from any race reasonably well, moreover, from what I have seen so far, the ships from different races have similar, if not identical stats, so no benefit can be gained here. Considering Star Trek logic: The Federation is by definition a conglomerate of hundreds of species and their technologies. Yet, they do not employ hundreds of different ship designs but merge them all into one grand design. The Borg have the exact same strategy (only their method to aquire new "members" differs). Other races would similarily use the technologies of other races to enhance their own ships. If anything, then the enslaving of other races should not unlock the ships from the new slave race, but should unlock a more powerful unit from the master race, to reflect the incorporation of previously unknown alien technology! (Think Borg. Think Federation.)
@Flamand: I thought the Colonization program was used to made expansion easier?! Because it does not take that long to build it (perhaps 20 turns or so, and I start right from the beginning and do not even build a single ground unit). And after that it produces a Colonist every 5 or 10 turns, depending on map size. Later on you can be (much) faster, of course, but in the beginning this is quite fast. The need to collect ressources and people for colonization should already be reflected in the shield and pop requirements for a settler, I think. If this is not sufficient, this unit could easily be made more expensive. And I already start with a bonus settler, which does not reflect the necessity to collect ressources and people. (But I am not complaining.) To be honest: I do like the Colonization program myself, I only feel that it makes gameplay too easy (and adjusting the difficulty level is no answer here, because it does not make the AI smarter, just more of a fraud).
@all: I would like to offer some ideas regarding unit balancing and tech tree (at least for the first era). Are you interested in my input at all? If so, how should I proceed: Directly modify the .bic file/tech advisor image and upload it/them together with a detailed list of what I have done (where? as attach to my post?) or just offer my ideas in textual/spreadsheet form?
Alternatively, would I offend anyone if I just submitted an alternative version of this great mod with my ideas incorporated? Or worse, violate someone's rights? (And sorry to ask this dumb question, but where should I put my results to in this case?)
Thanks!
@Logitech:
Considering the ressources: Of course one of the fun parts of Civ3 is to collect ressources. That means to look out for the few places that contain valueable ressources to be able to build the best available structures and units. That does not mean to just expand to everywhere/conquer everything to gain access to the 256 ressources that are absolutely needed to build anything at all (I am exaggerating, of course). In the latter case you could completely cease to incorporate ressources into the game at all and the gameplay would feel exactly the same: Just expand everywhere/conquer everything. Ressources are only interesting as long as they are special, rare and (relatively) difficult to obtain. If you need ressources for everything, they are not special anymore. If you have hundreds of them, they are not rare anymore. If you have them in your home system, they are not difficult to obtain anymore. Sometimes less is more.
(I am currently testing the also very good Rise and Rule mod, where they multiplied almost everthing by factors greather than two; from techs, wonders, city improvements over units to bonus and luxury ressources. But even they stopped at strategic ressources, and rightly so: Their number only increased very slightly.)
I, too, think, Antimatter could be an intersting ressource, but more so if it was not located in the homesystem and if it was not required for the most basic units. (Realisticly, of course, antimatter is not a ressource at all, because you create it artificially out of existing matter - but who cares.)
Shuttles: Shuttles are actually available within the first era, with spatial torpedoes. To build them, you need to have space ports, so it is indeed relatively easy to overlook them. But still, you could be able to build them with your 10th tech. I think shuttles should not be able to airlift units. Moving ground units around is already the job of transport ships. Airlifting (transporting) over too great distances would not fit into the Star Trek theme anyway. Making the troops amphibious could be sensible, though. I would simply remove the shuttles and put the space crafts into the spotlight. (Come on, what do you prefer as a player, making war with puny shuttles or Galaxy class star ships?)
Regarding the ground units: I think the focus is on space units, so I would prefer having only one kind of ground unit. It is not critical to give them higher attack values than defense, because you can (and the AI will) use space ships for bombardement. My playing experience so far has only indicated that the balance is unfavorable for the human player (the Federation, to be exact), at least in the very beginning, where they have inferior troops everywhere. This could be easily fixed by tweaking the values a bit as I already suggested and volunteered for. The Klingon ground troops for example already have higher attack than defense values.
Race-ressource requiring units: I have to disagree. First off, I have not witnessed that any AI was even close to capture the capital of another AI, even after endless warfare. I am not surprised, since the AI parks infinite numbers of ground troops in there as you can see for instance when you establish an embassy. Even if they lose everything else, it will be neigh impossible to vanquish them completely. Secondly and mainly: I do not think the game wins in any way if the Klingons utilize Romulan or Borg ship designs. If they would, my first thought as player would NOT be: "Ah, cool feature. The Klingons have finally enslaved the Borg and now send them in as cannon fodder. The designers were indeed very clever by tweaking the game engine enough to allow this feature." But: "WTF? The scenario designer has made a bug: The Klingons are using Borg ships!" Or: "WTF? Why has the designer made the Klingons use Borg ships? Has he gone mad? This is totally inappropriate!" In a Star Trek themed scenario, I would expect that any Race uses their own, and ONLY their own ships. What's the point if everybody can build everything (after certain criteria have been met)? Even if we could agree upon that this feature would enrichen the game it would still clutter the Civilopedia unnecessarily up and should in my opinion be removed solely due to this reasoning: The benefit is too small compared to the cost, the obscuring it adds to the Civilopedia. I admire the technique employed to make enslaving other Races possible, I really do, but I regretfully cannot help to come to the conclusion that it's not a beneficial addition.
In addition, neither game mechanics nor Star Trek logic support this feature: The game mechanics balance ships from any race reasonably well, moreover, from what I have seen so far, the ships from different races have similar, if not identical stats, so no benefit can be gained here. Considering Star Trek logic: The Federation is by definition a conglomerate of hundreds of species and their technologies. Yet, they do not employ hundreds of different ship designs but merge them all into one grand design. The Borg have the exact same strategy (only their method to aquire new "members" differs). Other races would similarily use the technologies of other races to enhance their own ships. If anything, then the enslaving of other races should not unlock the ships from the new slave race, but should unlock a more powerful unit from the master race, to reflect the incorporation of previously unknown alien technology! (Think Borg. Think Federation.)
@Flamand: I thought the Colonization program was used to made expansion easier?! Because it does not take that long to build it (perhaps 20 turns or so, and I start right from the beginning and do not even build a single ground unit). And after that it produces a Colonist every 5 or 10 turns, depending on map size. Later on you can be (much) faster, of course, but in the beginning this is quite fast. The need to collect ressources and people for colonization should already be reflected in the shield and pop requirements for a settler, I think. If this is not sufficient, this unit could easily be made more expensive. And I already start with a bonus settler, which does not reflect the necessity to collect ressources and people. (But I am not complaining.) To be honest: I do like the Colonization program myself, I only feel that it makes gameplay too easy (and adjusting the difficulty level is no answer here, because it does not make the AI smarter, just more of a fraud).
@all: I would like to offer some ideas regarding unit balancing and tech tree (at least for the first era). Are you interested in my input at all? If so, how should I proceed: Directly modify the .bic file/tech advisor image and upload it/them together with a detailed list of what I have done (where? as attach to my post?) or just offer my ideas in textual/spreadsheet form?
Alternatively, would I offend anyone if I just submitted an alternative version of this great mod with my ideas incorporated? Or worse, violate someone's rights? (And sorry to ask this dumb question, but where should I put my results to in this case?)
Thanks!
Ninja Flick
Casual Civver
My 2 cents on the development of this mod...
- Most important is the aformentioned "infinite number of ground troops" on every colony. Please find a way to alleviate this. Just have them build more ships instead of troops, or maybe have ground units cost population. If you can solve this you will be my mostest favorite person in the world.
- Make certain combat ships capable of carrying troops instead of needing to rely on the horribly slow and low-capacity transports. The "Dominion War" scenario has done this and it works really well.
- I agree with Lamabreeder's point about making some civs non-bribable. Borg and Klingon especially.
Thought I had more, but can't think of them at the moment. I'll post more as I remember. Thanks for picking this mod up, Logitech. I really enjoyed playing it, but always thought it needed a little tweaking.
- Most important is the aformentioned "infinite number of ground troops" on every colony. Please find a way to alleviate this. Just have them build more ships instead of troops, or maybe have ground units cost population. If you can solve this you will be my mostest favorite person in the world.
- Make certain combat ships capable of carrying troops instead of needing to rely on the horribly slow and low-capacity transports. The "Dominion War" scenario has done this and it works really well.
- I agree with Lamabreeder's point about making some civs non-bribable. Borg and Klingon especially.
Thought I had more, but can't think of them at the moment. I'll post more as I remember. Thanks for picking this mod up, Logitech. I really enjoyed playing it, but always thought it needed a little tweaking.
Logitech
A Person.
@Lamabreeder:
About Colonization: I like Flamand's latest post about making settlers buildable after a tech, a tech which also obsoletes the Colonization program, which anyone can build without resources. Think of it as simulating the slow, uncontroled expansion of a species from their homestar to other systems (this would be more for gameplay and realism than Trek) The settler units, however, would need the colonist resource, which most of the bigger civs (Fed, Kling, Rom, Borg, Card, etc) would have easy access to. This would simulate the rapid, but controled expansion of borders. What do you think?
Units: I would like to make just one type of infantry, but I came up with the attack > defense idea because the AI builds too many infantry, especially at their capital (As Ninja Flick reminds us ) I think that this would combat the excess AI units and City defense bonuses. Thoughts?
How about this for space units: The first Transport, mk1 or whatever, needs no resources, but only has a movement of 2. After you research Warp Drive, you can build a Transport mk2, which requires antimater and dilithium, but has a movement of 4 or 5. Later, mk3 Transports (movement of ~6) only need Dilithium, as antimater can then be replicated in amounts needed for ships? Does that sound good? And how does everyone think about making all civs use the same transport? that will also reduce some of the civilopedia.
About Race-specific units: You have a good argument there, Lamabreeder. This feature doesn't work properly and isn't in trek. But I still want to see what other's think about this before actually removing the units.
Finaly, I would love to hear your ideas for this mod! You can post pics and text description of your ideas, if that isn't too much trouble. I don't really like to merge .biq files by hand or otherwise
About Colonization: I like Flamand's latest post about making settlers buildable after a tech, a tech which also obsoletes the Colonization program, which anyone can build without resources. Think of it as simulating the slow, uncontroled expansion of a species from their homestar to other systems (this would be more for gameplay and realism than Trek) The settler units, however, would need the colonist resource, which most of the bigger civs (Fed, Kling, Rom, Borg, Card, etc) would have easy access to. This would simulate the rapid, but controled expansion of borders. What do you think?
Units: I would like to make just one type of infantry, but I came up with the attack > defense idea because the AI builds too many infantry, especially at their capital (As Ninja Flick reminds us
) I think that this would combat the excess AI units and City defense bonuses. Thoughts?How about this for space units: The first Transport, mk1 or whatever, needs no resources, but only has a movement of 2. After you research Warp Drive, you can build a Transport mk2, which requires antimater and dilithium, but has a movement of 4 or 5. Later, mk3 Transports (movement of ~6) only need Dilithium, as antimater can then be replicated in amounts needed for ships? Does that sound good? And how does everyone think about making all civs use the same transport? that will also reduce some of the civilopedia.
About Race-specific units: You have a good argument there, Lamabreeder. This feature doesn't work properly and isn't in trek. But I still want to see what other's think about this before actually removing the units.
Finaly, I would love to hear your ideas for this mod! You can post pics and text description of your ideas, if that isn't too much trouble. I don't really like to merge .biq files by hand or otherwise
Lamabreeder
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 11, 2004
- Messages
- 54
At the moment I am assembling the unit stats in a spreadsheet. Which is quite an effort and probably much more work than the stat tweaking itself. It would also be quite an effort to insert the new values into the Civ-Rules-file. I would be willing to do that with your current work version once I am done and able to present my suggestions - that is, if we agree on some of my suggestions. I expect that I will be able to present my ideas within the next day or so.
@Logitech:
Regarding Colonization: The idea is neat, but too complicated, I think. Give the player just one concept, not two. Having first to relearn that you cannot build settlers yourself but have to build the Colonization program instead, only to have to switch to the old paradigma again, is quite confusing I fear. If you like the Colonization Program then just stick with it. It might not excel in all areas, but it has certain advantages - and it's a nice idea.
One thought about the Settler resource. I realize that it is not possible to make civ improvements or small wonders only buildable for just some civs, as opposed to units where you can fine-tune this. In this mod this is solved by using ressources, Settlers for the Colonization Program, Humans for the Federation Lab, and so on. Would it not be possible to solve this by giving the Races a race-specific tech instead? I would prefer to have as few work-around-ressources as possible. I came to this idea through the RaR mod in which the Tribes are given Civ specific units and/or improvements this way. However, I am not sure how i.e. the Federation Lab would work then - if you had to make it buildable from the very beginning, or if you could have a tech which required a race-specific tech as prerequisite. In the first case the Lab could require a ressource which is visible or usable only later. Just a thought.
Regarding infantry: This is a good idea of yours. However, I think conquering a planet should require the support of space ships which bombard the planet into submission. Once the defenders have only 1 hp left, it is not necessary to have a greater attack value than the defenders have as defense.
Regarding infinite defenders: As we all know, even in the regular game the AI behaves this way. It's more moderated there, however, if the AI has the ability to move their units around, and especially into a war. I think the AI puts lots of ground units into their capital when the following criteria are met:
Regarding transports: This is certainly a good idea of yours, and I wholeheartedly support it. While I like having the different races have their own name for their transport, I agree that it is more important to make multiple transport versions available, not only faster ones, but especially transports which can transport much more infantry. We should however ensure that the AI will use them effectively, i.e. uses up all space on a transport ship, otherwise the human player will have a big advantage here. If the AI does not use up all space of a transport, then make them cheaper, so that the AI will hopefully build (and use) more of them. Oh, and I see no need for them to require any ressources at all. As for the Anti matter, I already said that I do not see much sense in a ressource which is given every player anyway near their capital. (Ressources to side-step engine limitations is a different matter, of course.) I think its the proud war ships that require high quality ressources, not the transports. Lacking ressources will make them not having good escorts, so the cargo will likey not survive the transport anyway. But at least the player has to be wary and control their space efficiently as not to having an AI sneak through.
An alternative would be, as Ninja Flick suggested, to enable combat ships to transport troops. At the moment this would be a little bit problematic, since they are designed to carry shuttles, and carrying both is, I think, impossible. I already suggested to remove shuttles completely, so if we agreed on that this would be no longer any hindrance. I prefer having a clear distinction between transports and combat ships, but that's just my personal preference. Ninja Flick's suggestion is definitively a doable alternatve. It might even be nearer to the source, since I think in Star Trek the ground troops come from combat ships, not separate transports (Think Klingons, Think Borg.)
I will post more specific proposals within a day or so.
@Logitech:
Regarding Colonization: The idea is neat, but too complicated, I think. Give the player just one concept, not two. Having first to relearn that you cannot build settlers yourself but have to build the Colonization program instead, only to have to switch to the old paradigma again, is quite confusing I fear. If you like the Colonization Program then just stick with it. It might not excel in all areas, but it has certain advantages - and it's a nice idea.
One thought about the Settler resource. I realize that it is not possible to make civ improvements or small wonders only buildable for just some civs, as opposed to units where you can fine-tune this. In this mod this is solved by using ressources, Settlers for the Colonization Program, Humans for the Federation Lab, and so on. Would it not be possible to solve this by giving the Races a race-specific tech instead? I would prefer to have as few work-around-ressources as possible. I came to this idea through the RaR mod in which the Tribes are given Civ specific units and/or improvements this way. However, I am not sure how i.e. the Federation Lab would work then - if you had to make it buildable from the very beginning, or if you could have a tech which required a race-specific tech as prerequisite. In the first case the Lab could require a ressource which is visible or usable only later. Just a thought.
Regarding infantry: This is a good idea of yours. However, I think conquering a planet should require the support of space ships which bombard the planet into submission. Once the defenders have only 1 hp left, it is not necessary to have a greater attack value than the defenders have as defense.
Regarding infinite defenders: As we all know, even in the regular game the AI behaves this way. It's more moderated there, however, if the AI has the ability to move their units around, and especially into a war. I think the AI puts lots of ground units into their capital when the following criteria are met:
- The units have nowhere else to go, because they are sitting on an island and do not have enough transports to ship them all off. In this mod this is certainly the case.
- The AI has nothing else to build than ground units. In the standard game, foreign civ's capitals are often busy building wonders. Here they can't because they often lack needed ressources, so they build additional capital defenders instead.
- The AI has excess production capabilities. Since factories and plants come early, the capital can grow limitless and the surrounding terrain yields lots and lots of shields while ground unit costs are comparatively low, they can probably produce one unit per turn after a short while.
Regarding transports: This is certainly a good idea of yours, and I wholeheartedly support it. While I like having the different races have their own name for their transport, I agree that it is more important to make multiple transport versions available, not only faster ones, but especially transports which can transport much more infantry. We should however ensure that the AI will use them effectively, i.e. uses up all space on a transport ship, otherwise the human player will have a big advantage here. If the AI does not use up all space of a transport, then make them cheaper, so that the AI will hopefully build (and use) more of them. Oh, and I see no need for them to require any ressources at all. As for the Anti matter, I already said that I do not see much sense in a ressource which is given every player anyway near their capital. (Ressources to side-step engine limitations is a different matter, of course.) I think its the proud war ships that require high quality ressources, not the transports. Lacking ressources will make them not having good escorts, so the cargo will likey not survive the transport anyway. But at least the player has to be wary and control their space efficiently as not to having an AI sneak through.
An alternative would be, as Ninja Flick suggested, to enable combat ships to transport troops. At the moment this would be a little bit problematic, since they are designed to carry shuttles, and carrying both is, I think, impossible. I already suggested to remove shuttles completely, so if we agreed on that this would be no longer any hindrance. I prefer having a clear distinction between transports and combat ships, but that's just my personal preference. Ninja Flick's suggestion is definitively a doable alternatve. It might even be nearer to the source, since I think in Star Trek the ground troops come from combat ships, not separate transports (Think Klingons, Think Borg.)
I will post more specific proposals within a day or so.
sepamu92
Prince
I'm glad to see progress is starting up again 
If you don't want them to take up the civilopedia, just give them no civilopedia entry. They won't show up at all.
You could also have the Federation Lab require a building that comes later on.
If you don't want them to take up the civilopedia, just give them no civilopedia entry. They won't show up at all.
You could also have the Federation Lab require a building that comes later on.
Logitech
A Person.
I have news. Some is just news, and the other is bad news. Just news first:
I have modded the terrain gfx in the folowing ways: The mountains, which were previously 'geoplastic' planets have been changed to Ocean gfx, so that ocean planets show up properly. Geoplastic planets can still be made using 'Snow covered Mountains' terrain. New red and yellow Demon planet (class Y) gfx have been added. 2 new versions of goody huts (I really like the way they look ), and other misc terain changes.
Bad news: I hate real life...Mine has just called me away from my civ computer, so while I can still commune with you all, I can't mod any more civ for a little while. This should be temporary, so just hang in there, guys. I promise I will be back as soon as posible to work on this mod. In the meantime, I would love to see that terrain gfx you got, Flamand, and those unit sheets, Lamabreeder, and discuss stuff about the rules.
ps: Real life needs to find another mod to delay. I mean seriously!
Now, @all: Civilopedia space isn't really an issue. making the entry's, however, take time and patience. I could make all star resources point to one entry, GOOD_Star, or something.
@Lamabreeder: I will say this about colonization: I think the Civilopedia and etc would be descriptive enough to alert the player to the comming ability to build settlers (I'll drop the idea to obsolete the Colonization program, ok? That should make it less confusing). This way, we still have the constant supply of settlers, but if the player of a major civ wants more cities, they can do so
more later...
I have modded the terrain gfx in the folowing ways: The mountains, which were previously 'geoplastic' planets have been changed to Ocean gfx, so that ocean planets show up properly. Geoplastic planets can still be made using 'Snow covered Mountains' terrain. New red and yellow Demon planet (class Y) gfx have been added. 2 new versions of goody huts (I really like the way they look
), and other misc terain changes.Bad news: I hate real life...Mine has just called me away from my civ computer, so while I can still commune with you all, I can't mod any more civ for a little while. This should be temporary, so just hang in there, guys. I promise I will be back as soon as posible to work on this mod. In the meantime, I would love to see that terrain gfx you got, Flamand, and those unit sheets, Lamabreeder, and discuss stuff about the rules.
ps: Real life needs to find another mod to delay. I mean seriously!
Now, @all: Civilopedia space isn't really an issue. making the entry's, however, take time and patience. I could make all star resources point to one entry, GOOD_Star, or something.
@Lamabreeder: I will say this about colonization: I think the Civilopedia and etc would be descriptive enough to alert the player to the comming ability to build settlers (I'll drop the idea to obsolete the Colonization program, ok? That should make it less confusing). This way, we still have the constant supply of settlers, but if the player of a major civ wants more cities, they can do so
more later...
Ninja Flick
Casual Civver
Sorry to hear that real life has pulled you away from the mod for a while, Logitech. Hopefully it's nothing too serious.
I have one more suggestion for when you do get the chance to pick the mod back up. Is there some way to make stars traversable by workers? It's currently a royal pain when you have pollution foul up a star and no way to fix it. I think I've played a mod before where workers were the only ones able to cross an unroaded mountain.
I have one more suggestion for when you do get the chance to pick the mod back up. Is there some way to make stars traversable by workers? It's currently a royal pain when you have pollution foul up a star and no way to fix it. I think I've played a mod before where workers were the only ones able to cross an unroaded mountain.
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