1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Starting as a Tribe, a gameplay loop preview

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Gedemon, Apr 12, 2021.

  1. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,715
    Location:
    France
    That's something we've discussed a few time in this section: what to do in a a pre-city gameplay ?

    Here is a 30 minutes preview of what I've been working on since February, based on various ideas, as a starting gameplay for my overhaul, where the goal is to gather enough population to create a Settler or a City of your Civilization ethnicity.

     
    rty, Timberdoodle, Piranga and 19 others like this.
  2. Ryansinbela

    Ryansinbela Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Messages:
    537
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Florida
    Cool my dude

    also what are the tribe names used

    Sambians
    Semigallians
    Skalvians (German)
    Yotvingians
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
    Henri Christophe likes this.
  3. Zegangani

    Zegangani Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2020
    Messages:
    469
    Gender:
    Male
    I prefer this kind of Tribal start over starting as Tribal Units who wander around and collect resources/hunt Animals. I also like how the Tribes (and the Barbarian Camp) spawned adjacent to lakes and rivers.

    I only have one suggestion: Combat Units that get trained in a Tribal Village could have Extra strength on the same terrain/feature type of their Trival Village. Like a Tribe that is on a desert Tile will train Units that have +x Strength on desert/desert hills.

    Did you change something about the Barbarians too?

    I hope someday Firaxis will hire you (and let you fee hands to do anything you want). Great Job (as always)!
     
  4. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Messages:
    3,131
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rouen, Normandy
    Maybe even the Tiles immediately adjacent to the Village could give some boosts to those Units.
     
    PiR and Zegangani like this.
  5. Zegangani

    Zegangani Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2020
    Messages:
    469
    Gender:
    Male
    Could work aswell. maybe even better, because it would represent the Environment of a Tribe much better (instead of the 1 tile of a tribe that might be i.e. a plain grassland while most surrounding tiles have also rainforest on them. So a +x CS in Rainforest would be more reasonable than a +x on Grassland).
     
    PiR and Duke William of Normandy like this.
  6. Naokaukodem

    Naokaukodem Millenary King

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    3,264
    Impressive work knowing how Civ6 is difficult to mod such as. Some change in the realm of Civ, at last. It might give ideas to Firaxis ! Maybe an ancient era focused game before Civ7 ?

    I don't get why the units starve though. They can die even in a tile of cows. Unless they have a lifespan like heros in NFP ?

    I would love if once you have cities you can revert back to camps due to collapse.
     
  7. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,715
    Location:
    France
    It's a lifespan of 6 turns , then they disband in 2-3 turns depending on the HP left
     
    Naokaukodem likes this.
  8. AsH2

    AsH2 Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2002
    Messages:
    466
    Location:
    Sweden
  9. CalebR_300

    CalebR_300 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    Messages:
    35
    I'm liking what I see... good work.

    It would be cool for the mechanic that allows you to place a satellite village also be applied when placing improvements around a city... could do away with builders, plus have a handy dandy road to the improvement.

    As far as I can tell, resources collected by a unit are lost if the unit doesn't manage to transfer them back to a village... I propose a movement distance-limit on units (say 6 tiles from their spawn point) instead of a turn based limit... or the unit becomes passive and is forced to return to base and disbands on arrival... or transfer all resources on the unit to the closest friendly village on disbanding... or is immune to disbanding (or slowed) whilst in supply range of the main village.

    Now this is just speculation, but I foresee a potential imbalance of an established civ being able to dominate a village civ by simply having units that don't time out... but that may be part of the incentive to establish a city.

    Anyway, I'm just nit-picking. Otherwise this is great, and I look forward to giving it a spin in the future! :thumbsup:
     
    aieeegrunt likes this.
  10. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,715
    Location:
    France
    Disbanding units are sending back all equipment and personnel to the village they are linked to, even if there is no supply route (assuming the surviving conscripted soldiers always find a way back home to their family, with their shields/weapons), number of resources is dependent on distance, with a minimal of 10% if there is no supply line (or too far) so you don't lost everything.

    I don't remember if that was coded correctly at the time of the video, did a lot of bug fixing since, I think there is a scout that didn't get back in range in time then, which pushed me to implement the 10% minimal value for resources transferred back to village on disbanding.

    That mean you can recruit back any units that has just disbanded while being a tribe, something a city may not be able to do with its conscripts.

    Distance limit will be implemented with unit's loyalty value, at some point.
     
  11. AntSou

    AntSou Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2019
    Messages:
    1,944
    The amount of detail in this is insane. Good luck with the project, I hope I get to play it.
     
  12. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,715
    Location:
    France
    I'm almost certain there was at least one thread somewhere in this section about removing the worker unit, but I don't seem to be able to find it...

    Anyone remember how it was working in CTP ?
     
  13. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2003
    Messages:
    7,886
    Location:
    Europe, more or less
    Very cool and interesting. Though it seems quite complex, I like simpler systems more.

    Having said that, two questions:What about Archipelago? I believe there should be some way to island hop and get out there. A canoe unit would be suitable, nothing fancy needed, but I feel getting boxed in could be frustrating.

    And how‘s the transition to the real game afterwards?

    Each city contributed a share of their production to a central pool called „public works“. There was a slider that affected how much of it went there, I‘m not sure right now if that slider was empire-wide or city specific. The latter would be more flavourful, simulating either rural cities sending workers to the capital (for building Ziggurats) or the capital city sending its surplus to build up a endangered border town. Then you just go into a menu, chose the UI (inlcuding roads) and place it where you want.

    It was so much better than Civilization‘s Worker/Builder Units. Less clicking.
     
    aieeegrunt and Gedemon like this.
  14. Galvatron

    Galvatron Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    313
    Are you a wizard
     
  15. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,715
    Location:
    France
    One of the thing I'd like to have in my mod is a mechanism to acquire traits during the game instead of selecting a civ based on its traits before starting the game.

    I'd like to implement the selection of one trait for this Era, that you have to select from a few, and unlocked based on your surrounding. One could be a naval specialization allowing embarking unit, unlocked if you have villages along the sea.

    Transition is, when the conditions are meet, by an action to spawn a Settler unit (then settle somewhere else on the map) or an action to replace the central "fortified village" by a City.
     
    AsH2, mitsho, Zegangani and 1 other person like this.
  16. Zegangani

    Zegangani Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2020
    Messages:
    469
    Gender:
    Male
    I had the same Idea. Traits should basically be acquired based on Experience/Environment/Circumstances of a Civ. You can make that via Policies that are locked, and unlock them via lua (there is already a "ExplicitUnlock" Column in the Policies Systeme that's used by a Scenario - That's how I plan to, and probably, do it). So that a Civ could end up with more than just 2 Traits. But AI again... So perhaps Policies aren't a good Methode for that.
     
  17. Ryansinbela

    Ryansinbela Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Messages:
    537
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Florida
    Boris also did, because a tribe didn’t randomly spawn saying “You know what, we are the Chinese”
     
  18. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
    3,650
    Location:
    north of Steilacoom, WA
    In fact, if you started playing in 4000 BCE or so as a tribe named the:
    Daxi
    Majiabang
    Yangshao
    Hongshan
    Dawenkou
    How many would know that those are the early archeological groups in, respectively, the Three Gorges area, upper and lower Yellow River basin, northeastern coast, and the Yangtse Delta of China?

    Yeah, we need a Pre-City (I'd say Neolithic but Humankind has that locked up for the moment) start in which you Develop your initial Traits, don't get handed to them based on what you Will Become several thousand years later . . .
     
  19. nauberry

    nauberry Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2018
    Messages:
    169
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Finland
    Looks very promising and I hope at sometime we will get to try what you have created. As I'm inexperienced in the mod creation side, is it possible with the current tools to create an AI that can use these new mechanics?
     
    Hellenism Salesman likes this.
  20. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,715
    Location:
    France
    One of the reasons I've started this gameplay implementation is to have a (relatively) simple environnement (before cities and territories make it a lot more complex) in which I could try to answer that very question.

    In the current state of the tools, you can tweak the AI behavior for existing mechanisms, but you can't really change neither the AI nor the mechanism.

    On the other hand, a new mechanism, that's something else, what I can do for the human player (pressing a button to spawn an unit if some conditions are meet for example), I can make the AI do it too.

    I don't plan to have a complex AI in my mod, I will rely on the default AI when I can, but I'd like to completely remove the current diplomatic AI (and diplomatic gameplay) that can't be modded and write my own from scratch.

    And I'll start with inter-tribes relations.

    Nothing coded on the diplomatic side yet, but I've started a framework to handle decisions with this gameplay.

    For example, the AI currently weight and apply the following decisions in a central village:

    "Defense":
    - try to spawn a melee unit if the central village is undefended
    - try to spawn a ranged unit over the melee unit if its health drop below 50% (ranged and melee stacks in my mod)
    - try to spawn additional units if there are more enemy units in the range of the central village than it has

    "Offense":
    - try to spawn a skirmisher unit if there isn't enough active

    "Homeland":
    - try to repair pillaged villages in range

    All this using the same rules as the human player.

    I'm not sure yet if I'll try to code the Settler/City gameplay for the AI Civilizations, as it's more complex of course, and civ6 Lua is fast, but not fast enough for everything going on in the mod already, and also because one of the goal here is to implement True Starting Dates, with the tribes doing a "soft-reservation" of a Civilization Starting Position until its spawning date, which would of course be very variable if the AI was using this mechanism before being able to spawn a city. The possibility of the tribe loosing the position will already be an important factor for a Civ to spawn or not.

    I've already decided that I'll use asymmetrical gameplay for the human vs AI anyway, my design is to have the AI providing a interesting background for the player to develop its Empire and reach various goals, with Rise and Fall of other Empires around him.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
    nauberry and AsH2 like this.

Share This Page