Starting near water = Evil

[nihilistvoid]

I'm not certain I understand why anyone would want to start near water. Unfortunately, the corruption system makes tile distance from the capital the focus of corruption. Thus, having your capital on the edge of an ocean efficiently cuts your optimal cities down by half. Why would anyone want to be a seafaring civ knowing this? I really wish Civ3 could be played where this wouldnt be an issue. (not to get off topic, but perhaps if they change the optimal cities to the first x number of cities built by the civ, regardless of location, and work from there, rather than physical distance)

 

[AdHHH]

Being next to the sea allows you to build naval units, and naval GWs. By the late ancient era, when your border lines are more or less secure, you can flip your palace to a central city and thus optimise the corruption levels. If you're a Seafaring Civ the Great Lighthouse and Magellan's Voyage are vital in maximising the strength of the trait and therefore you have to have a good city on the coast, preferably on a river so that you can build an early 6+ city

 

[nihilistvoid]

Who wants to spend time building another palace and also losing the cultural bonus that accumulates from having an ancient palace?

 

[AdHHH]

If you move the Palace early enough you will get the bonus in your 'other' capital, and the capital culture doesn't make the difference between reaching a 20k 1 city victory; its the GWs (such as Lighthouse and MV) that do. Using the free palace flip also avoids having to build a palace from scratch

 

[nihilistvoid]

Call me a newbie, but I need a link/description of the palace flip.

 

[wilbill]

Building on the coast has no effect on the Optimal Cities Number, either. All it means is that your capital won't be centered, so some of your later cities will be further from it, which would increase distance corruption, not rank corruption. OCN is based on map size and what level you're playing.

 

[Taé Shala]

You will also be able to contact civs on other continents earlier and can use this position to your favor.

 

[nihilistvoid]

Originally posted by wilbill
Building on the coast has no effect on the Optimal Cities Number, either. All it means is that your capital won't be centered, so some of your later cities will be further from it, which would increase distance corruption, not rank corruption. OCN is based on map size and what level you're playing.

Sorry, forgot the term "OCN" actually had a more specific meaning here. I meant distance corruption, which plays a huge factor.

 

[DragonRunner]

It could almost be better for Forbidden Palace placement, at least in Vanilla Civ. I don't have the patch for C3C that fixes the FP bug. You have an easier time choosing where your FP can go- across the continent from your palace.

 

[nihilistvoid]

Search yields too many results on palace flips. Can someone offer a quick definition?

 

[Halcyon]

Abandon your capital and the palace will move to another city.

 

[Psyon Ra]

i dont see a problem. once the coastal city gets going with improvements/wonders, it becomes a very powerfull city indeed..

i dont mind coastal starting position at all, the advantages far exceed any disadvantage... my FP just goes in a little different..

 

[kb2tvl]

If your palace is on an ocean, you can place your cities such that as some distance out from your original palace, you can move your palace latter. I like the distance of 10 which is 2 rings of 5 so your current capitol becomes a second ring city latter...

I do agree that if you play on a panagea or other large land mass that sea faring ability goes down in value.

 

[AdHHH]

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_palace_jump.shtml

Im only on Regent myself but Ive used this effectively in 1 or 2 games and it does help; you basically build workers and/or settlers until you have to abandon your original capital. Your palace flips to the next biggest city, but this is a more in-depth explanation of it.

 

[sabo]

I believe Military Great leaders can still rush a palace to so it's pretty painless, especiall if you have alot of MGL's as in a Military civ like Germany.

 

[Halcyon]

Originally posted by kb2tvl

I do agree that if you play on a panagea or other large land mass that sea faring ability goes down in value.

Just as Expansionist does on archipelagos. Makes Portugal interesting.

 

[JazzToucan]

I, too, don't like the frequency with which non-seafairing civs tend to start near the ocean.

Call me 'old skool,' but I don't like building a new palace -- I like keeping the "historical" capital and staying with it. For me, it adds charm to the game. Furthermore, it defeats the purpose of the "advantage" of having the seafairing civs start closer to the ocean as all civs pretty much do this anyway.