Starting strategies/Openers

[Txurce]

I actually am in the middle of a game (on king) where I tried nearly the same approach. I missed the GL so I ended up with just a library and NC and I went straight down tradition and don't regret it at all. I was able to expand by hard-building the settler in plenty of time to take the two nearby spots I wanted and didn't feel too pressured by the AI expansion. The food bonuses in tradition are just great to help you stay with one city for a while. I played as Germany though, so I never had to build a single unit (except a scout) because my scout+war started a snowballing barbarian army to defend me (I've been over the supply limit a lot this game). I've found that getting the free settler from liberty and expanding earlier really ticks off the AIs and they start DoWing left and right. Instead in this current game Japan DoWed me rather later in the game and I had no trouble defending against everything he sent my way.

Replying to another post, I missed the Pyramids too (One of the AIs just sucked up about every early wonder) and had to hard-build the settler

The AI is extremely unpredictable re: Wonders. I am also playing Germany, and built the Pyramids, Oracle, Hanging Gardens, Colossus, and the Great Library in that order before the NC. This is in a conquest game where I attacked China right away.

 

[Tomice]

Ok, I guess I really learned a lot about the first moves. Thanks to all!

There's one important question left, though:

The discussed approach is intended to be a builder style strategy. How do you manage to get rid of all the wars without counter-attacking? Or do you? I'd guess just accepting that I'm in war with half of the world binds a ton of ressources on defence, ain't I better off doing something to find peace again? From my outdated experience, AIs won't accept peace easily, you either have to show them who's boss by burning a few of their cities or have to accept extremely unfavourable deals.

 

[Txurce]

Ok, I guess I really learned a lot about the first moves. Thanks to all!

There's one important question left, though:

The discussed approach is intended to be a builder style strategy. How do you manage to get rid of all the wars without counter-attacking? Or do you? I'd guess just accepting that I'm in war with half of the world binds a ton of ressources on defence, ain't I better off doing something to find peace again? From my outdated experience, AIs won't accept peace easily, you either have to show them who's boss by burning a few of their cities or have to accept extremely unfavourable deals.

First, there is a fairly large needle hole to thread in which the AI don't attack. It's bigger if you start with plenty of lebensraum, and smaller but manageable if you quickly build a small, but effective force. I still play tall games where I'm not rushed early on. But if you are rushed by a single AI (or even two) punching them in the nose by driving back the invasion force is enough to send them back. Depending on their strength, early on they tend to offer quick neutral peace terms.

 

[Tomice]

Well, I have to say that I tend to "regenerate the map" (*) if I start in crappy terrain (like lots of tundra and ice visible around me on turn 1). This might make the problem more common for me than for other players. I also tend to have 10+ factions as I prefer large maps on epic speed, which makes the number of potential attackers larger.

Guess I'll have to play a few more games and find out the details myself. "Theorycivving" has its limitations


(*) Oh how I miss this feature from civ4! Any chance to integrate it again, Thal? Guess that's as hardcoded as it gets, though

 

[Thalassicus]

@Tomice
I answered in the other thread you started, here, since it seemed to fit the question there.

 

[Tids]

After reading these strategies I'm wondering if its time to change my start build order...

First thing i build a monument to get the extra culture, and research husbandry while praying for horses. (I also send my warrior exploring - is this the standard approach?)
Next i build a worker, and research pottery then writing. I get the +3 culture tradition policy, and then the Liberty starter.
I then build a library if writing is complete, or a scout if it is not. Citizenship policy giving me a worker, and then Republic, setting up my for when i get the free settler from Collective rule.
After researching writing i usually go towards iron working first or Calender if correct resources around.
I usually then set my capitol to building several wonders, primarily Pyramids for extra settler (after dealing with barbarian camps by building archers, as well as one archer to protect from rushes)
From here i am rather flexible with how i play, however i usually ultimately concentrate on science, as it aids in higher tech than AI, so can therefore field stronger units. I try to set up 3 main cities, with others out for resources.

Good or bad opener? (I usually ultimately go for a science victory, depending on how warlike im feeling)

 

[Txurce]

After reading these strategies I'm wondering if its time to change my start build order...

First thing i build a monument to get the extra culture, and research husbandry while praying for horses. (I also send my warrior exploring - is this the standard approach?)
Next i build a worker, and research pottery then writing. I get the +3 culture tradition policy, and then the Liberty starter.
I then build a library if writing is complete, or a scout if it is not. Citizenship policy giving me a worker, and then Republic, setting up my for when i get the free settler from Collective rule.
After researching writing i usually go towards iron working first or Calender if correct resources around.
I usually then set my capitol to building several wonders, primarily Pyramids for extra settler (after dealing with barbarian camps by building archers, as well as one archer to protect from rushes)
From here i am rather flexible with how i play, however i usually ultimately concentrate on science, as it aids in higher tech than AI, so can therefore field stronger units. I try to set up 3 main cities, with others out for resources.

Good or bad opener? (I usually ultimately go for a science victory, depending on how warlike im feeling)

This is very close to how I open when I go for a science victory. (I usually decide before game-start.) Not building a Scout first deprives you of additional Ruins gains (assuming you play with Ruins). You could start that way, then go for either the monument or the worker second, depending on when a tech the worker can use will become available.

With this start I usually select Pottery second or first, and try to choose the other tech based on something the worker can take advantage of. All thing s being equal, I tend to lean toward Mining over Animal Husbandry, because I'd rather have the hammers.

 

[Thalassicus]

That's a very similar strategy overall to what I do in peaceful games, though I do build scouts.

One advantage I can see of monument or worker first is a head start on policies or improvements, which can make up for the small gains of ruins in the long run. It's sort of a short term vs long term tradeoff. Scouts actually drop a lot in value if in crowded areas near lots of AIs that will grab the ruins first anyway.

 

[Sneaks]

The value of scouts for me is often not the ruins, but finding trading partners ASAP. 10-15 turns in, having an extra 240 is quite powerful.

 

[Txurce]

The value of scouts for me is often not the ruins, but finding trading partners ASAP. 10-15 turns in, having an extra 240 is quite powerful.

10-15 turns in, how could you have anything to trade?

 

[Sneaks]

I have been known to settle on riverside gold/silver often. Research mining, free connected resource that will give me free early gold

 

[Txurce]

I have been known to settle on riverside gold/silver often. Research mining, free connected resource that will give me free early gold

I had a suspicion that was going to be your answer. And that chain really pays off, of course. Does what you invest in vary with the game, or is it almost always a Settler?

 

[Sneaks]

It can vary. Honestly, depends on the start. I sometimes rushbuy granaries if the resources around are solid. If I have close neighbors, and no backdoor to settle into without hate, I often rushbuy a worker and go tradition for a hard vertical NC start.