[C3C] Statue of Zeus and Jungle

[timerover51]

The most recent issue of National Geographic History has a well-illustrated article on the Statue of Zeus. After reading it, it would be safe to say that in addition to Ivory being required for its construction, Gold should be required as well. I have moved Gold from a bonus resource to a Luxury Resource and will be adding it to the resource list for building the Statue.

Next, with respect to Jungle, I was looking at a report in one of the War Department Intelligence Bulletins from World War 2 discussing living off of the land in the jungle. An 80 man patrol spent a week living off of the jungle without tapping into the back-up rations being carried except for coffee and sugar. (I keep viewing Coffee as a strategic resource, more for the Industrial Age military however. After World War 2, the U.S. Army, presumably with the hearty concurrence of the U.S. Navy, listed Coffee as a Strategic Resource.) I am testing making Jungle capable of yielding two food per tile, without the addition of Tropical Fruit.

I need to think more about coffee, as the London coffee shops in the 1600s and 1700s appear to have been important in the functioning of the English Government and also the Insurance industry.. It first came to the notice of Europe following the first Ottoman Siege of Vienna in 1529, but the Turks and Arabs knew about it much earlier.

 

[timerover51]

I understand that adding Food to Jungle based on the report of an 80-man patrol may seem a bit extreme, but consider the area occupied by a single tile is pretty large. In the Tropical Jungle, trees are producing fruit the year round, not in set seasons like the temperate forest. Then you do have the various herbivores and carnivores feeding off of the produce of the jungle, and the numerous streams and rivers, which do not show up on the map, that are yielding fish and other edible items. I think that I can justify increasing the Jungle food yield. That also makes settling near a Jungle tile more productive.

 

[timerover51]

My change requiring both Ivory and Gold for the Statue of Zeus is proving more interesting than I thought. As near as I can tell, in my present game on a map generated in the editor by me, no one has built the Statue. I used Quintillus' editor to check how many Gold resources are on the map, and got an answer of 31. I then checked the map, and discovered that 11 of them are in a large mountain mass that would require a lot of road building and colony building to get to. I had not given thought to the fact that the terrain for Ivory and the terrain for Gold are quite a bit different. That mountain mass is not near where I am at present, and getting to it would require moving over Ocean tiles, which will not be possible until I get to Astronomy and then Navigation. Once again, hoist by my own petard.

 

[Civinator]

The setting of 2 food for jungle terrain is in CCM 2.5, too. The difference to grassland is, that it can not be irrigated, without transforming that terrain and therefore is limited to those two food. In the starting phase of a game this setting in my eyes is better for civs that have to start with jungle terrain.

If you set gold as a needed resource for buildings and wonders, you should set it to a strategic resource and never to a luxury resource, as luxury resources on the map appear in clusters (for trading reasons). Therefore the setting of that GW to the luxury resource ivory by Firaxis is a big mistake and that problem should not be doubled by needing an additional luxury resource.

In CCM 2.5 it is a special GW for Greece, triggering their Golden Age and providing Greece with many Greek Heros with their different names.

 

[timerover51]

The setting of 2 food for jungle terrain is in CCM 2.5, too. The difference to grassland is, that it can not be irrigated, without transforming that terrain and therefore is limited to those two food. In the starting phase of a game this setting in my eyes is better for civs that have to start with jungle terrain.

If you set gold as a needed resource for buildings and wonders, you should set it to a strategic resource and never to a luxury resource, as luxury resources on the map appear in clusters (for trading reasons). Therefore the setting of that GW to the luxury resource ivory by Firaxis is a big mistake and that problem should not be doubled by needing an additional luxury resource.

In CCM 2.5 it is a special GW for Greece, triggering their Golden Age and providing Greece with many Greek Heros with their different names.

I thank you for the advice, and will correct that on my next map. I am well aware of the grouping of luxury resources, and I did not take that into account. I will look at setting both Ivory/Elephants and Gold to Strategic resources. Realistically, Gold should be a strategic resource, as both wars and infrastructure building take Gold.

 

[Takhisis]

The most recent issue of National Geographic History has a well-illustrated article on the Statue of Zeus. After reading it, it would be safe to say that in addition to Ivory being required for its construction, Gold should be required as well.

This is actually called chryselephantine, i.e. gold-ivory.

My change requiring both Ivory and Gold for the Statue of Zeus is proving more interesting than I thought. As near as I can tell, in my present game on a map generated in the editor by me, no one has built the Statue. I used Quintillus' editor to check how many Gold resources are on the map, and got an answer of 31. I then checked the map, and discovered that 11 of them are in a large mountain mass that would require a lot of road building and colony building to get to. I had not given thought to the fact that the terrain for Ivory and the terrain for Gold are quite a bit different. That mountain mass is not near where I am at present, and getting to it would require moving over Ocean tiles, which will not be possible until I get to Astronomy and then Navigation. Once again, hoist by my own petard.

This is an interesting development. I just started a thread on how to –hypothetically– upgrade barbarians' unit lines as the ages go by precisely because I keep finding outcrops of unsettleable mountains or even the occasional all-mountain island (to my chagrin, with iron and/or coal on them!) and those can just be loaded with stacks of horsemen that will go down to one or two infantry if it fortifies on a mountain anyway.

Did you set your statue to require gold and ivory to be within its city radius? The actual Statue of Zeus was made with ivory imported either from Asia or Africa to begin with.

 

[timerover51]

This is actually called chryselephantine, i.e. gold-ivory.

This is an interesting development. I just started a thread on how to –hypothetically– upgrade barbarians' unit lines as the ages go by precisely because I keep finding outcrops of unsettleable mountains or even the occasional all-mountain island (to my chagrin, with iron and/or coal on them!) and those can just be loaded with stacks of horsemen that will go down to one or two infantry if it fortifies on a mountain anyway.

Did you set your statue to require gold and ivory to be within its city radius? The actual Statue of Zeus was made with ivory imported either from Asia or Africa to begin with.

It took me a little while to determine what map I used, but I did not require both gold and ivory to be within the city radius. Checking CivAssist, on my last SAV, no one had as yet built it, but it looks like I could if I wanted too. I will have to think about that, if I want to spend the effort. As I am presently researching the Corporation, it is not like it is vital at this point.

 

[Takhisis]

It's a pity that Civ3 requires either all or none of the resources to be within city radius. It could be set up so that you need e.g. iron from anywhere to build an oil well but the oil, obviously, has to be in situ.

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

It's a pity that Civ3 requires either all or none of the resources to be within city radius. It could be set up so that you need e.g. iron from anywhere to build an oil well but the oil, obviously, has to be in situ.

You can do this with two buildings. I have a colliery that requires coal in the radius, and then the steel mill that requires a colliery and trade network iron.

 

[timerover51]

You can do this with two buildings. I have a colliery that requires coal in the radius, and then the steel mill that requires a colliery and trade network iron.

That is used a lot in Storm Over the Pacific, but it is not exactly well down. The building cascades get a bit long.

 

[Takhisis]

You can do this with two buildings. I have a colliery that requires coal in the radius, and then the steel mill that requires a colliery and trade network iron.

This is the best solution, I suppose, but it has its limitations as well.

 

[timerover51]

This is the best solution, I suppose, but it has its limitations as well.

Yes, as it means the time to build two buildings along with the cost. So far, in Storm Over the Pacific the problem is both time and cost. In some cases, you need a succession of four buildings to get to the one that you want.

 

[Ozymandias]

@timerover51: