Status on AI work?
- Thread starter Bringa
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asbesthund
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2007
- Messages
- 12
As far as i know, the AI in multiplayergames has always the same difficulty. If you change ur own difficulty level to settler, your units and buildings become cheaper, your peolpe are happier etc., higher difficulty means more expensive units/buildings, unhappy people...in both cases the Ai stays the same. The advantage is, that every human player can play at his own difficulty, making the game harder or easier only for him.......
My problem with the AI is the following. I play on Warlord, and the first 100-150 turns (on quick) are challenging but ok for me. But after this time, one or sometimes two AIs go berserk, their Power-Graph climbing up 3 to 4 times higher than mine within 20-30 turns and i get steamrolled.......
Once i saw a stack of 30 archers and 50!! priests of leaves!
This realy anoys me and makes it completely imposible to play builder-style!!
My problem with the AI is the following. I play on Warlord, and the first 100-150 turns (on quick) are challenging but ok for me. But after this time, one or sometimes two AIs go berserk, their Power-Graph climbing up 3 to 4 times higher than mine within 20-30 turns and i get steamrolled.......
Once i saw a stack of 30 archers and 50!! priests of leaves!
This realy anoys me and makes it completely imposible to play builder-style!!
WarKirby
Arty person
I'm a bit confused about difficulty levels.
When I use the "custom game" option (which is always) there's only one difficulty setting, next to my name. There's a difficulty setting next to each AI player too, but all of them are greyed out. Only the one beside me is settable.
In a hotseat game I play with my cousin, we both have individual options to set difficulty there, but the ones next to AIs are still greyed.
I thought the point of raising difficulty was that it made the AI cheat, giving them free promotions, gold, and such. how does it actually work ?
When I use the "custom game" option (which is always) there's only one difficulty setting, next to my name. There's a difficulty setting next to each AI player too, but all of them are greyed out. Only the one beside me is settable.
In a hotseat game I play with my cousin, we both have individual options to set difficulty there, but the ones next to AIs are still greyed.
I thought the point of raising difficulty was that it made the AI cheat, giving them free promotions, gold, and such. how does it actually work ?
I believe it works like this: on multi-player each individual player (human and AI) has their own difficulty, each person's difficulty is how difficult the game is for them. You usually want to set the difficulty for the AI much much lower than the AI for people. Because the AI is dumb and you are (hopefully) not.
I'm surprised at the OP's game. I play SP on Monarch (huge map) and regularly face waves of 30+ stacks. Recently one stack had 35 axemen and another 30 assassins plus another dozen other units mixed in. Might have been more effective if the assassins didn't all attack first but it was still pretty devastating. Additionally, the AI has been defending with city defense promoted archers and longbowmen.
My issue is less that the AI is underperforming but rather that it is performing in ways that force me into a certain playstyle. Stacks of 15+ assassins force me to build the Nox Noxus and sit my mages outside of the city or loose them all. Still, it's a massive improvement from earlier versions where the AI was attacking in small, ineffectual stacks and sacrificing heros in futile attacks.
Lastly, i agree that the no AI build reqs seems to help as does no AI level req and Aggressive AI.
My issue is less that the AI is underperforming but rather that it is performing in ways that force me into a certain playstyle. Stacks of 15+ assassins force me to build the Nox Noxus and sit my mages outside of the city or loose them all. Still, it's a massive improvement from earlier versions where the AI was attacking in small, ineffectual stacks and sacrificing heros in futile attacks.
Lastly, i agree that the no AI build reqs seems to help as does no AI level req and Aggressive AI.
well, that's my problem with higher difficulty (everything above noble) - huge stacks of assasins - instead of less units, but very strong ones, let's say crossbowmen and such.
So far I am happy with the AI on noble, it builds sometimes mages, even archmages, and the stacks are about 10 units a max. the only problem on noble is, that the AI is not very good at economics. I can "cheat" by restricting myself to a lower tech rate, 50% or something like that, but if I use higher difficulty I only have to fight stacks of 30 axemen, and that's really not my idea of civ..
I think higher difficulty should mean more intelligent behaviour. I think GalCiv had an approach by making more difficult AI using more programmed subroutines. A really good MP-human could say what he does. The question is, could the AI be programmed to do the same, and only on higher difficulty levels?
let's say we know CS and SE and maybe also a Aggriculture/Aristocrazy-strategy. What if the AI could be teached not by giving him countless free units, but by using these strategies to afford an army that is strong, but fair.
I want to need to use Shield of Faith. Not to kill 30 axemen, but to kill one vampire on lvl 12. backed by 3 paladins and a high priest of the order. 5 units that mean something, instead of 30 units that only give xp.
So far I am happy with the AI on noble, it builds sometimes mages, even archmages, and the stacks are about 10 units a max. the only problem on noble is, that the AI is not very good at economics. I can "cheat" by restricting myself to a lower tech rate, 50% or something like that, but if I use higher difficulty I only have to fight stacks of 30 axemen, and that's really not my idea of civ..
I think higher difficulty should mean more intelligent behaviour. I think GalCiv had an approach by making more difficult AI using more programmed subroutines. A really good MP-human could say what he does. The question is, could the AI be programmed to do the same, and only on higher difficulty levels?
let's say we know CS and SE and maybe also a Aggriculture/Aristocrazy-strategy. What if the AI could be teached not by giving him countless free units, but by using these strategies to afford an army that is strong, but fair.
I want to need to use Shield of Faith. Not to kill 30 axemen, but to kill one vampire on lvl 12. backed by 3 paladins and a high priest of the order. 5 units that mean something, instead of 30 units that only give xp.
JonathanStrange
PrinceWithA1000Enemies
Higher difficulty should mean better AI rather than one with extra starting bonuses and whatnot - though that (mediocre AI) is, for the most part, a strategy game problem industrywide. So I'm not singling out FFH2 as being particularly weak; it's one reason we play MP.
If we could spend 8900 beakers and research "Competent A.I." allowing an AI to play competently at various Human equivalent levels without having to be given bonuses or handicaps - well, no crude bonuses like low maintenance costs or crude handicaps like extra slow production -then I'd be in Ljolsalfar heaven.
If I could play at my usual Immortal/Deity level and know the reason why the computer was doing well was because it was making expert decisions and knew when and how to wage war, research an expensive tech, decide on different victories, cast its World Spell for maximum effect and so on, then I wouldn't mind so much at being defeated. As it is now, there are times when I have a great starting position, with plenty of resources, room, defensible terrain, lucky combat results, a clear plan, strong familiarity with a civ's strengths and weaknesses - and still get crushed in a war suddenly declared on turn 75 by an enemy civ with 50-60 units! If I'd been making a unit every turn since turn one, I couldn't do that, yet the AI can. Not all the time, but often enough. Somehow it seems wrong to lose crushingly without having made a single obvious mistake.
I'm just sayin'
If we could spend 8900 beakers and research "Competent A.I." allowing an AI to play competently at various Human equivalent levels without having to be given bonuses or handicaps - well, no crude bonuses like low maintenance costs or crude handicaps like extra slow production -then I'd be in Ljolsalfar heaven.
If I could play at my usual Immortal/Deity level and know the reason why the computer was doing well was because it was making expert decisions and knew when and how to wage war, research an expensive tech, decide on different victories, cast its World Spell for maximum effect and so on, then I wouldn't mind so much at being defeated. As it is now, there are times when I have a great starting position, with plenty of resources, room, defensible terrain, lucky combat results, a clear plan, strong familiarity with a civ's strengths and weaknesses - and still get crushed in a war suddenly declared on turn 75 by an enemy civ with 50-60 units! If I'd been making a unit every turn since turn one, I couldn't do that, yet the AI can. Not all the time, but often enough. Somehow it seems wrong to lose crushingly without having made a single obvious mistake.
I'm just sayin'CladInShadows
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2008
- Messages
- 76
in multiplayer you still cannot select the difficulty level for AI players. each human player can select a level that, and the disadvantages/bonuses given to each AI are based on the difficulty being played by the host player.
i.e. player one chooses chieftan and player 2 chooses immotal. all other players are AIs.
This means that player one will have the happiness levels, production and everything a single player playing chieftan would have, player two would find themselves in the situation a person playing single player on diety would have. Al the AI players however, would act and be treated as AIs in a single player game on Chieftan level, because this is the level being played by he games host.
i.e. player one chooses chieftan and player 2 chooses immotal. all other players are AIs.
This means that player one will have the happiness levels, production and everything a single player playing chieftan would have, player two would find themselves in the situation a person playing single player on diety would have. Al the AI players however, would act and be treated as AIs in a single player game on Chieftan level, because this is the level being played by he games host.
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