Steam and 'Deluxe' Features

[Ajidica]

First off, this is not a complain about Steam post
It appears to me that the reason Firaxis has the 'deluxe' package is to prompt people to get the game over Steam rather than CD so Steam has something to make it more attractive. Yay corporate greed but Firaxis has already decided on at least a some DLC path and nothing we can do will change it.

Would it be possible for Firaxis to sell the 'Deluxe and Pre-order' features at a later date? I'm probably like most people; I like to have a hard copy of my game as it makes install faster and I actualy physically own my copy and can see it. (Stupid reason I know). Perhaps like a month or two after Civ5 has been released Firaxis would put the deluxe and pre-order out as DLC.

To me, the idea of pre-order and deluxe version should be to reward those who do buy it by giving them some extra 'bonus' content; not withold already created game assets. How Firaxis has it set up now seems to be penalizing those who wish to actualy own their copy of the game and not have to dl it over the internet (seriously, dl a huge game over the internet sucks). I hope that is not Firaxis's intent. If they had to do that due to distributor demands that is annoying, but at least we know it is not their conciousness choice to seem greedy and rip us off.

Thoughts?

 

[HamTard]

I would imagine that if they are going to offer paid DLC, eventually they'll sell Babylon as DLC for $5.

Dragon Age Origins Digital Deluxe had DLC that they also sold separately for $7 (at the time, the Deluxe was $15 more than Standard).

 

[ArcadicGamer]

I would imagine that if they are going to offer paid DLC, eventually they'll sell Babylon as DLC for $5.

Dragon Age Origins Digital Deluxe had DLC that they also sold separately for $7 (at the time, the Deluxe was $15 more than Standard).

Exactly. In some cases, Day Zero DLC is avalible for disk purchasers without special editons. Sometimes for less.

 

[Toni1]

I'd assume that if Firaxis/2k are promoting buying from steam rather than retail is that 2k/firaxis get a bigger cut even if steam individually takes bigger cut than retailer does (you must remember there are other middlemen taking their cut as well when handling retail as well as production costs involved in making physical product, digital version do not have these costs and while it has it's own, I'd image they will be less than in retail version). This is especially true when retail and digital versions come with same price tag.

I'd also asume that the digital deluxe content will either be offered as separated paid DLC or as part of next expansion if and when it comes out. I do think it's weird choise for digital deluxe content. Bonus scenario or something would fit better. Also DLC does not really suit for heavily moddable games due to modders being able to make similar or (usually) better content. Expansion model works much better as they can introduce larger game rule and feature changes, unlike with DLC where they need to especially avoid rule changes to avoid breaking compatibility with DLCless versions. What they could possibly offer as DLC is major skenarios in level of Rhye's rise and fall of civilization or Fall from Heaven II. Other than those I don't quite see what they could possibly offer that is worth any money. I think only Bioware got it right with their NWN premium modules thus far. Unfortunately they seem to have forgotten it since then. (edit: actually someone should point that out to Firaxis if they haven't realised it yet so they don't on the 'horse armour' or 'spite pack' paid DLC landmine. Feel free to steal my comment and use it as your own as I'm not potential customer so my word carries no weight for them.)

Oh and Ajidica, you won't own the retail Civ 5 no more than Steam bought as it'll be tied to your steam accound and thus can not be resold/lended to third party. Only thing different is physical box & media, paper manual and possibly paper tech tree. I hope they do those poperly for retail purchasers sake.

 

[Ajidica]

YEah, I know I don't actualy 'own' my copy of the game. Its mainly a psychological thing about being able to say I purchased that physical game instead of I purchased some data that is sitting on my HDD. End result is the same though. That said, I do prefer to install something from a disk instead of dling it. Disk install takes around 30min, dling it takes around 3hrs minimum.

I hope Firaxis does DLC right. Otherwise it just appears to be corporate greed.

 

[Toni1]

YEah, I know I don't actualy 'own' my copy of the game. Its mainly a psychological thing about being able to say I purchased that physical game instead of I purchased some data that is sitting on my HDD. End result is the same though. That said, I do prefer to install something from a disk instead of dling it. Disk install takes around 30min, dling it takes around 3hrs minimum.

Well it used to be different with most retail games, you used to be able to do pretty much anything with retail copy but lately Devs/publishers have taken meansures directly prevent resale/lending of retail games. AND they still expect us to pay same amount for it

 

[Shurdus]

YEah, I know I don't actualy 'own' my copy of the game. Its mainly a psychological thing about being able to say I purchased that physical game instead of I purchased some data that is sitting on my HDD. End result is the same though. That said, I do prefer to install something from a disk instead of dling it. Disk install takes around 30min, dling it takes around 3hrs minimum.

I hope Firaxis does DLC right. Otherwise it just appears to be corporate greed.

Right now Portal is free on steam, and I downloaded it this morning. It was a bit over 5 GB and it was downloaded in under ten minutes. Steam uploads the games to well over 3MB/sec. I do not even have fancy internet, so it can be done faster still I highly doubt that for the typical user the download will last 3 hours or more.

 

[CivFanMUC]

I'm pretty sure the Babylonian Civ will be available later to be bought via DLC. Not sure if it will be at the same price, but i'm pretty sure all of us will be able to get them.

Regarding greed and rip-off:

Deluxe Feature:

you get:
* No CD/DVD
* No box
* No printed manual
* No printed techtree
* A "making of" (no, no DVD/CD, just the files - which may be found somewhere on the internet few days/weeks after release)
* An OST (same here, no CD/DVD, just the files - which bla bla bla)
* A new map (yay!)
* A new civ

You decide if that's worth the extra-cash

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.​

Albert Einstein​

 

[Chalks]

I'm pretty sure the Babylonian Civ will be available later to be bought via DLC. Not sure if it will be at the same price, but i'm pretty sure all of us will be able to get them.

Regarding greed and rip-off:

Deluxe Feature:

you get:
* No CD/DVD
* No box
* No printed manual
* No printed techtree
* A "making of" (no, no DVD/CD, just the files - which may be found somewhere on the internet few days/weeks after release)
* An OST (same here, no CD/DVD, just the files - which bla bla bla)
* A new map (yay!)
* A new civ

You decide if that's worth the extra-cash

Erm... sorry... so forgive me if I'm misreading this, but you're saying that if the Delux edition was available on a physical disk and in a box with a manual printed out on paper, you would spend the extra $10? Because those things are worth $10?

I own a printer and I have some writeable CDs somewhere... interested?

 

[Toni1]

Erm... sorry... so forgive me if I'm misreading this, but you're saying that if the Delux edition was available on a physical disk and in a box with a manual printed out on paper, you would spend the extra $10? Because those things are worth $10?

I own a printer and I have some writeable CDs somewhere... interested?

You can't seriously be comparing proper factory printed Manuals/maps/tech sheets/CD's/DVD's to ones you can make home printing them from PDF files. You're serious aren't you?! Are you a digital media/download evangelist or something? No offence but more of your posts I read, the more they sound like preaching of religious fanatic. If you've posted even single negative thing about steam/digital media/digital download while being here I'd be amazed.

 

[Zhahz]

I'm a huge music lover - and I still buy CDs - I like to have them, like the art, love my wall of CDs, etc. So I sorta see what you're saying. I don't feel the same about games though. Manuals these days are generally pitiful and there are lots of advantages to digitial purchases. Re-downloading what you've bought, usually less annoying DRM (no CD in drive in particular), super fast download speeds (install faster from HD than CD/DVD), and more.

Generally speaking I'm never impressed with what's offered in collector's editions or delux editions. At least with the Civ 5 offering you get something that expands the game, almost a mini expansion of sorts. But, even though it's more valuable, I don't particularly like it or think the pricing fits, and at this point I"m not sure I'd go for deluxe.

Overall I don't like it. An extra civ in deluxe is a beefier perk than you usually find in deluxe or collector's type editions. But I don't like the establishing a precedent of paying for extra civs, especially at a cost of $10 per (guess it depends how much value you place on the maps, which I consider less compelling vs the extra civ).

Erm... sorry... so forgive me if I'm misreading this, but you're saying that if the Delux edition was available on a physical disk and in a box with a manual printed out on paper, you would spend the extra $10? Because those things are worth $10?

I own a printer and I have some writeable CDs somewhere... interested?

Being rude to people on a daily basis doesn't make you right, it just makes you rude. Just a thought.

 

[Ajidica]

Shurdus: Are you sure that Portal was 5gb? When Steam was dling the Empire Total War patch it took well over 10 minutes. When I attempted to dl Empire over steam it would take like 3hrs. Regardless, I prefer to own the disk and printed manual. While I'm fine being able to get the game over steam, I'd prefer to not have to dl it initialy to play.

I just find it a bit unfair that Firaxis is sort of shafting those who prefer to not buy the game directly over steam. While perks for pre-ordering are fine, they shouldn't be anything that materialy affects the game. EG: If you pre-ordered or bought Empire Total War over steam, you got the ability to recruit a basicaly useless but unique mercenary, and a few late game ships. Nothing game breaking. Its not like they witheld the Swedish Empire from you if you didn't pre-order the game or puchase it over steam.

I realize I will probably never get a response to this question, but there is at least a fools hope it might get answered.
To anyone who is knowledgeable in this area: How will Civ5 DLC compare to that of Empire Total War?

OVer on the total war forums CA's handling of DLC has soured alot of the community and in many ways comes across as sheer corporate greed. While CA has handled some DLC things fine, mainly their Warpath mini-expansion they failed on the unit packs. Case point: They cost around $4 and you recieve around 12 units. Thats roughly .33 a unit. Now if we assume Empire total war shipped with 160 units and cost $50, thats about .31 a unit. While that appears to be fine on the outside, the unit costs are roughly the same it is a poor indicator. All of the assets that also shipped in the game fall under that cost. So at minimum one is paying double for units that they will never use. Most of the units in the dlc packs are late game restricted recruitment units that you will likely never use. Epic fail.

 

[Chalks]

You can't seriously be comparing proper factory printed Manuals/maps/tech sheets/CD's/DVD's to ones you can make home printing them from PDF files. You're serious aren't you?! Are you a digital media/download evangelist or something? No offence but more of your posts I read, the more they sound like preaching of religious fanatic. If you've posted even single negative thing about steam/digital media/digital download while being here I'd be amazed.

No, but I am probably making some form of point in the general direction of asking what portion of the full price of a game he would consider to be paying for the packaging. Probably implying somewhere along the way that I don't believe he would pay an extra $10 for a physical CD and a paper manual.

But don't think too hard about it. Wouldn't want to set a precedent.

Being rude to people on a daily basis doesn't make you right, it just makes you rude. Just a thought.

Be less sensitive, you'll enjoy life more.

 

[Ajidica]

I don't understand why Firaxis even started this whole firestorm in the first place. If they simply set the games cost at $55 and it just included the extra civ and the map while the 'pre-order or over steam' game included the 'bonus' features there would be less resistance to the whole idea of the game being shipped over steam.

I would just like to clarify I have no problem with steam, its a bit annoying at time but on the whole a relativly unintrusive DRM. Plus it allows me to play the game without the CD in without the need for a no-cd hack.

 

[Chalks]

I don't understand why Firaxis even started this whole firestorm in the first place. If they simply set the games cost at $55 and it just included the extra civ and the map while the 'pre-order or over steam' game included the 'bonus' features there would be less resistance to the whole idea of the game being shipped over steam.

I would just like to clarify I have no problem with steam, its a bit annoying at time but on the whole a relativly unintrusive DRM. Plus it allows me to play the game without the CD in without the need for a no-cd hack.

I have to say I agree with you.

I think it was a bit of a marketing failure on their part. It's pretty common for games to have "special editions" when they first launch, but this really isn't worth the price. I think the main problem is that a special edition really isn't appropriate for a game like this. I feel that their marketing department saw other games doing it and thought "ooh, that's a cool idea", but didn't really think very carefully about the impact on the perception of the customers.

 

[Avs]

Unless someone has evidence of what will be in the retail box, you can't really compare them yet. Just because games in the past included this, doesn't mean they will still include this. After all, many boxed game manuals these days are ridiculously dumbed down (look at mass effect 2's, and thats for an RPG), and contain information fit for people who've never played that type of game before. All the actual information that is meaningful gets entered on stuff like www.gamefaqs.com or in fan websites such as this one (Look at the Civ4 leader picker, or map scripts guide).

Ie. Whether it even includes a tech tree foldout map, or a manual. And whether that manual is anything like the thick book that came with Baldurs Gate 2, or Civilization 2. By the way, I prefer the in game tech tree because its right there. The foldout tech tree is nice, but thats...outdated in many ways.

 

[Toni1]

By the way, I prefer the in game tech tree because its right there. The foldout tech tree is nice, but thats...outdated in many ways.

Why not have both? But havent the in game tech tree been around in civ games like forever?

 

[Baracus]

Ie. Whether it even includes a tech tree foldout map, or a manual. And whether that manual is anything like the think book that came with Baldurs Gate 2, or Civilization 2. By the way, I prefer the in game tech tree because its right there. The foldout tech tree is nice, but thats...outdated in many ways.

I think you make some good points there! I'm still sitting on the fence as to whether to buy on Steam or a hard-copy though. Not sure if the pro's of no CD required to play, and the 'added extras' for which £10 is a bit steep (but it's only a tenner!) outweigh the pro's of having a proper printed manual and box to put on the shelf but no extras! Hmmm... decisions decisions!

 

[Tylerryan79]

Im pretty sure you dont need a cd to play if you do buy the retail, Chalks?

 

[Avs]

Why not have both? But havent the in game tech tree been around in civ games like forever?

I would like to have both. Put that fold out tech tree on the wall or something haha. I really like Civ4's in game tech tree because its linkable to the civpedia to tell me more than just this goes to that. It's getting more and more dynamic each Civ game. There are tons of things it can do that you just can't do on paper, or in previous Civ games (comparing Civ4 vs older Civ games). However, I can do without the paper tech tree because of how useful the in-game tech tree is in practicality. It is nice to look at the paper tech tree while eating at a restaurant just to turn some heads though.

In short, having both is always welcome (I think everyone appreciates more options). Whether the developer/publisher think's its worth spending money on, when they are technically redundant, is a different kind of decision though.