Steam - love or hate?

[Kryhavok]

PrinceScamp, you sir are a trooper. Have a gold star!

 

[yeti101]

To repeat...drop steam or risk losing revenue. Copy protection does not ensure higher profits. I've given the Civ developers a mulligan on this issue and offer them the opportunity to trust their dedicated users the next time around. Please learn from your mistake.

i hate to tell you but your way too late. 2k games has been on the steam bandwagon since they released bioshock (2007). Now if previous releases had damaged their sales & profits they would no doubt withdraw from the platform and use something else.

The fact theyre still there i think tells us its been good for them. They might lose a few dies hard anti-steam people but theyll probably gain more from the exposure on steam and to its huge userbase.

 

[Maniacal]

PrinceScamp, you sir are a trooper. Have a gold star!

Why thank you good sir!

Oh wow new page.

I would really like to buy CiV, but Steam does not support my APO address as a billing address. I had the opportunity to buy a physical copy of the game with my computer, but one of the "steam lovers" talked me into downloading the game directly...boy what a mistake that was. Not only am I having difficulty purchasing the game, once I get that figured out, I will need to wait several hours for the game to download. I was told by other APO users that Steam can modify the account to make APO addresses work if I send them a support message. I have sent them a message, and six hours later I still have no response!

Here is a summary list of my gripes with Steam:

- They do not support APO addresses (a huge gaming community)

What is an APO address?

- They do not have a customer support phone number to talk to a human being
- They take a LONG time to reply to support messages

Yeah I'm pretty happy I've never had to ask them for support, they take their sweet time replying as often as not. VALVe works on its own definition of time, see this article for details:
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time

Apparently people are estimating VALVe will release Half-Life 2: Episode 3 to coincide with the Christian Rapture. Or, as VALVe said, Christmas 2007.

dedicated fans to the point that I will pirate the software instead of buying it.

That doesn't help anyone, and certainly not the anti-DRM cause. If you dislike the DRM enough, don't even play it then. Piracy is not helping anyone.

To repeat...drop steam or risk losing revenue. Copy protection does not ensure higher profits. I've given the Civ developers a mulligan on this issue and offer them the opportunity to trust their dedicated users the next time around. Please learn from your mistake.

The FREE Steamworks stuff VALVe offers companies who develop their games to sue Steam and Steamworks is the real incentive, DRM is a secondary concern and you are lucky they don't add more (Take2 has done that before, keeping SecuROM even for the Steam version of a game (the games weren't Steam-only though)).

 

[Licinia Eudoxia]

Other companies (like Stardock...hello Kael) have their own online platform for delivering gaming content which is far superior to Steam.

Far superior to Steam in what way? Just curious.

The cost to develop such a platform is lower than handing over management of IP protection to Steam.

How do you know this? Could point to some source for this?

Civ should migrate to this approach to incorporate the benefits of digital content delivery without alienating the customers.

They would have alienated customers no matter what. I'm not sure that creating a dashboard program for a company that only releases a few games, and infrequent updates, is such a great idea.

If you don't like Steam, why would you want five or six mini-Steam programs for each game?

 

[rbj2001]

You made your avatar a Steam logo with it crossed out. Maybe you're a little too fixated.

Took about 5 minutes to make and upload. Whereas DaviddesJ and PrinceScamp seem to spend about 2 hours per day on here apologising for Steam. Who's fixated?

 

[Moss]

Moderator Action: Discuss Steam, not other members please.

 

[Tytow]

Here's why I hate this system. I work full time and go to school full time, so my ability to play Civ is limited. Today I snuck out of work an hour early so I could get to school early, find a comfy seat in the library, and play an hour of Civ. Now Steam wants to update itself. The public WiFi at the library won't allow that. I have the disk, I paid for the game, I have an hour, I want to play MY GAME, that I BOUGHT, but now I can't. And that annoys the hell out of me. (by the way, the game won't boot up in offline mode -- Steam won't allow anything until in upgrades itself). Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.......

 

[DaviddesJ]

I am not sure what I am supposed to make of this reply. From your previous posts, you seem to be more than intelligent enough to understand what I was getting at.

I think you understand my response perfectly well. You just don't like the conclusion. You complain that Civ V requires other software (Steam) in order to run. But it doesn't seem to bother you that Civ I required other software (MSDOS) in order to run. This illustrates the logical inconsistency in your position. I understand exactly what you were "getting at", the purpose of my reply is to point out the illogic behind your position.

 

[Maniacal]

Took about 5 minutes to make and upload. Whereas DaviddesJ and PrinceScamp seem to spend about 2 hours per day on here apologising for Steam. Who's fixated?

I don't recall ever apologizing for Steam. Possibly a few excuses but I've been more than ready to admit to some of tis failures (like the poor offline mode). I have spent a lot of time in this thread, but I am here for the discussion. I also multitask and am looking at several sites at once usually. I have no need to attack people personally (their posts, yes, but not them personally). I've already explained this a few pages back.

Here's why I hate this system. I work full time and go to school full time, so my ability to play Civ is limited. Today I snuck out of work an hour early so I could get to school early, find a comfy seat in the library, and play an hour of Civ. Now Steam wants to update itself. The public WiFi at the library won't allow that. I have the disk, I paid for the game, I have an hour, I want to play MY GAME, that I BOUGHT, but now I can't. And that annoys the hell out of me. (by the way, the game won't boot up in offline mode -- Steam won't allow anything until in upgrades itself). Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.......

Set your laptop up not to automatically connect to the internet then and start Steam in offline mode before connecting.

 

[DaviddesJ]

I would really like to buy CiV, but Steam does not support my APO address as a billing address. I had the opportunity to buy a physical copy of the game with my computer, but one of the "steam lovers" talked me into downloading the game directly...boy what a mistake that was.

To repeat...drop steam or risk losing revenue.

2K already offers you a way to buy Civ V without going through Steam. You can just buy a retail copy. Your problems with the billing address aren't an issue unless you actually choose to buy games through Steam, which is totally optional.

 

[Mesix]

Steam is not an operating system. Comparing the requirement that a game requires Steam to it also requiring an operating system is like saying that a car not starting up with the airbags disabled is identical to it not starting up with a bad engine.

Cars need an engine to run.

A computer needs an OS.

Steam is an unnecessary requirement which should be offered as an option to users who want it (like Civ IV) but not required for admission.

 

[Maniacal]

I ask again, what the heck is an APO address?

As for Steam, yeah read the thread for its benefits. It is much better if you have a bunch of games rather than just a few (and not just on Steam since half its features work if you just launch a game through Steam via its shortcut).

 

[Mesix]

2K already offers you a way to buy Civ V without going through Steam. You can just buy a retail copy. Your problems with the billing address aren't an issue unless you actually choose to buy games through Steam, which is totally optional.

I could have bought a retail copy when I was in the U.S. The PX does not have retail copies for sale, the game costs twice as much in euro (thank to the weak dollar), and if I buy it online to have shipped to my APO it will take two weeks to get to me just like my new laptop did.

If I want to play CiV in the next two weeks, I need to use Steam.

...still waiting for a reply from their support staff after eight hours. You'd think that the support staff would respond quickly to the question "Can you help me to spend money on your site?"

 

[Mesix]

An APO address is a post office on an overseas military base.

There are about 1/2 million Americans overseas who use APO addresses and many of them have a disposable income and lots of free time to play games. A really big market segment which shouldn't be ignored.

 

[Maniacal]

Ah, I see. Still though, if I was going to be overseas on military duty then I would expect not to have everything delivered perfectly to me at some base address in who knows where (or Germany). It would be like trying to spell the name of the Bedouin village I camped next to for a month this summer, its pronounced something similar to Grey-gra and there are at least 5 ways to spell it, none of which include the letter g.

Still frustrating though.

EDIT: Found this, dunno if it helps. A company that tries to help exactly that problem.
http://www.apobox.com/

 

[rbj2001]

I think you understand my response perfectly well. You just don't like the conclusion. You complain that Civ V requires other software (Steam) in order to run. But it doesn't seem to bother you that Civ I required other software (MSDOS) in order to run. This illustrates the logical inconsistency in your position. I understand exactly what you were "getting at", the purpose of my reply is to point out the illogic behind your position.

Could you be any more obtuse? You're the one who doesn't like the logical conclusion but continue to write your ill-thought-out responses to anyone who expresses a negative view of Steam. Civ5 only needs Steam to run only because the publishers decided to make it that way, presumably in some misguided attempt to make more money. They could perfectly well release a version that doesn't require it. But they couldn't have programmed it not to require an operating system.

I don't recall ever apologizing for Steam. Possibly a few excuses but I've been more than ready to admit to some of tis failures (like the poor offline mode). I have spent a lot of time in this thread, but I am here for the discussion. I also multitask and am looking at several sites at once usually. I have no need to attack people personally (their posts, yes, but not them personally). I've already explained this a few pages back.

a·pol·o·gize
   /əˈpɒləˌdʒaɪz/ Show Spelled[uh-pol-uh-jahyz] Show IPA
–verb (used without object), -gized, -giz·ing.
1.
to offer an apology or excuse for some fault, insult, failure, or injury: He apologized for accusing her falsely.
2.
to make a formal defense in speech or writing.

Moderator Action: We don't allow any insults and trolling in this forum, refrain from doing these things.

 

[Maniacal]

Ah yes, I read Socrate's Apology last month, but I assumed you meant the normal apology meaning that is primarily used today (ie, making excuses, and saying I am sorry they did this and that). Please do be more clear next time (And hey, if I'm ever not clear please do politely ask).

 

[DaviddesJ]

Ah, I see. Still though, if I was going to be overseas on military duty then I would expect not to have everything delivered perfectly to me at some base address in who knows where (or Germany). It would be like trying to spell the name of the Bedouin village I camped next to for a month this summer, its pronounced something similar to Grey-gra and there are at least 5 ways to spell it, none of which include the letter g.

I think you're making a fool of yourself by commenting on something you know nothing about. The US military provides exactly this service, this is the whole point of APO/FPO addresses, so that servicemembers can get their mail when they are stationed overseas through a standardized system that doesn't require shippers to do anything unusual. They spend a great deal of money to make it happen, it works very well, and it is indeed very unusual if, for some reason, Steam doesn't support APO/FPO addresses. It's not some bizarre or exotic request.

 

[Crezth]

Well, I grew up actually believe that the slogan "the customer is always right" actually meant something. Imagine my shock when I learned that its only purpose was to indoctrinate kids into capitalism and that companies didn't follow it!

I do believe that companies have a moral duty (which sadly isn't followed) to serve their customers. Perhaps some of my outrage is that the only games I've played are SimCity 3000, SimCity 4, Star Trek: Bridge Commander, Secret Files: Tunguska, and Civilization IV. Notice that none of them are recent. It's like boiling a frog: throw the frog into boiling water, and it will jump out; place the frog into water that's at room temperature and slowly heat the water up, and the frog will stay in the water until it dies.

I don't get the outrage over CD keys. Every piece of software (except some games) that you pay for has a product key. What makes games so different that it's suddenly bad if they have a CD key, or suddenly OK to require a third party program. Imagine the outrage if Google required you to run a program like steam before running Chrome.

I immediately realized you have no argument at all when you stated Civilization IV in the vein of examples of properly released games. You do know it was extremely buggy and quite unpolished when it was first released, right?

You don't believe any of this stuff you're espousing. You're just angry for angry's sake.

 

[DaviddesJ]

Could you be any more obtuse? You're the one who doesn't like the logical conclusion but continue to write your ill-thought-out responses to anyone who expresses a negative view of Steam. Civ5 only needs Steam to run only because the publishers decided to make it that way, presumably in some misguided attempt to make more money. They could perfectly well release a version that doesn't require it. But they couldn't have programmed it not to require an operating system.

Actually it wouldn't be hard to build it not to require an operating system. E.g., you could have it run on Linux internally and package the OS inside the game. The reason they don't do that is because it's not convenient for users---no one wants to reboot every time they play a game, it wouldn't be possible to switch between Civ and other tasks, copying and accessing save files would be harder, and so on. I.e., it's exactly like Steam, which makes patching, matchmaking, downloading, saving, and other services easier.

I guess you give something away when you say "presumably to make more money". If you start with the presumption this is some undesirable inconvenience, I guess you can only reach one set of conclusions. But if you look at all of the people who post here to say how much better they like Steam than the previous alternatives, then you might conclude that they are going to make more money, but only because they are going to sell more games to more happy customers.