Steam - The 'somewhat explain it all guide'

[The_J]

Yes, I'm sure Microsoft doesn't collect any information on DirectX users. Conversely, I'm sure Steam has already stolen your social security number and credit card information long before you ever actually heard the name. Valve is a SCARY WIZARD!

Besides that you're right with the scary wizard , everything on my PC is blocked via my firewall (exceptions i define myself).
If DX collected any data, it could not send it home.

Steam's data collection is OPT IN.

Do you not understand what those words mean or something or do you have some sort of immunity to facts?

Repeating the same lies over and over doesn't actually make your argument look any better!

They at least have my IP and my email adress.
And that's already something which i do not want.

And besides that: Have you thought about their definition of data?
Some data you don't want them to know, even if they can't identify you.
Nobody can identify me by the length of my genitalia, but even with knowing that, i'll not give them this information.

And don't forget: They can change it at any time they want to .

 

[Sterf]

They at least have my IP and my email adress.
And that's already something which i do not want.

You do realize that this forum has this scaaary information also? Or any forum / site you belong to. And any website can see your IP.

 

[Thanny]

One question, do I need an internet connection every time I want to launch the game?

I often play on laptop while travelling where there is no internet connection and this would be a serious blow for me.

As pointed out, you can place Steam in offline mode, and play any installed games that themselves don't require an internet connection for functionality (which will almost certainly include Civ 5).

However, there is a caveat, which is that your computer must have credentials stored from a successful online login. This means you must tell Steam to save your password, for one, which means launching Steam means you're automatically logged in. If you're a security nut, that might bother you.

Beyond that, Steam will occasionally prompt you for your user ID and password even though you've told it to save credentials. This will happen often if you log on from two different machines without first logging out. The first logon will be automatically booted, which is not a problem, but this situation causes the local credentials to be wiped, forcing you to enter them again the next time you log on. The reason it does this is to help prevent account theft, though it's of rather dubious utility in that regard, as far as I'm concerned. If you try to launch Steam without an internet connection, and it has no locally stored credentials, you cannot go into offline mode.

The upshot is, if you're about to start travelling with your laptop, you will want to log onto Steam while you have a connection first, then switch to offline mode. That way, you won't find yourself stuck with no access to your Steam games.

 

[Willem]

You do realize that this forum has this scaaary information also? Or any forum / site you belong to. And any website can see your IP.

But we made the choice as to whether we gave CivFanatics this information or not. We don't have that option if we're forced to use Steam.

 

[Rebel44]

That has absolutely nothing to do with it. You're confusing spam with viruses obviously. You sign on to a site like this one, entering your email address in the process. That site sells that information to a spam service who in turn offers themselves to businesses and sends out wave after wave of spam on their behalf. Or they'll further sell all those addresses to companies who want to send you spam on their own. But it's not just addresses, there's all sorts of information about you that's being gathered and used by businesses everytime you register with some site on the internet.

90-95% of spam is sent by zombies (PCs infected by malware that make them part of some botnet). If people werent stupid enough to have their PCs infected spam would be significantly reduced.

I work for big ISP and in my former job I had access to some stats regarding spam...

 

[Vordrax]

But we made the choice as to whether we gave CivFanatics this information or not. We don't have that option if we're forced to use Steam.

I didn't realize you could sign up with CivFanatics without an email address. Or do you only consider being FORCED to do something in regard to the luxury of video games as opposed to the luxury of internet forums?

By the way, the information you're complaining about Valve collecting is pretty much related to OS and non-personal system specs in order to provide information to developers who are interested in publishing games on the platform, to see their general crowd. AND it IS Opt-In, whenever they do a poll you get a pop-up that asks if you want to submit your non-personal user information for statistical purposes.

You can quote EULAs all you want; they are written to protect the company, and are generally rather boilerplate. If you want to eliminate frivolous lawsuits, we can start forcing companies to eliminate frivolous EULAs. But until then, in the house of logic, we allow only facts and intelligent interpretations, not vague misconceptions of legal-speak. If you have evidence of Valve actually collecting and sharing such information, I'll be glad to hear it out. Until then, I'll go by my Inbox, which is pretty bereft of junk mail from Valve (despite being a member for 6 years and having all of that scary data-wizardry happening to me) or anything related that I didn't sign up for myself.

 

[Chalks]

They at least have my IP and my email adress.
And that's already something which i do not want.

Civ fanatics has your IP and email address!! Where's your ridiculous posts about them being a "data gathering company"? Or do you only get hysterical when it suits your point???

Get out.

 

[The_J]

You do realize that this forum has this scaaary information also? Or any forum / site you belong to. And any website can see your IP.

Civ fanatics has your IP and email address!! Where's your ridiculous posts about them being a "data gathering company"? Or do you only get hysterical when it suits your point???

Get out.

But we made the choice as to whether we gave CivFanatics this information or not. We don't have that option if we're forced to use Steam.

Willem .
I've signed in here, because i wanted to.
But i don't want to sign a contract with Valve.

I will not have to create an account here when i want to play Civ5. But i have to create an steam account. That's the difference.

And CFC is not owned by a company.

 

[Chalks]

Willem .
I've signed in here, because i wanted to.
But i don't want to sign a contract with Valve.

I will not have to create an account here when i want to play Civ5. But i have to create an steam account. That's the difference.

And CFC is not owned by a company.

You want to post on this forum, you were forced to sign up here.
You want to play Civ 5, you're forced to have a Steam account.

You don't even need to use your primary email address, you can make one just for Steam - then this doesn't even apply. Your excuses hold no water.

Oh, and it's a "company". BOO! So much more likely to do bad stuff than a private individual being corrupt.

 

[LDiCesare]

You want to post on this forum, you were forced to sign up here.
You want to play Civ 5, you're forced to have a Steam account.

Apples and oranges.
You want to use civfanatics' services, you sign with civfanatics.
You want to use 2k's products, you have to agree to 2k's EULA AND Valve's. Since the latter brings little or no benefit to most players, many of these object to having to agree to any kind of terms which grant them nothing worthwhile. That Steam grants nothing to SP users is debatable (one can say they bring relatively unobtrusive DRM), but having no choice but to sign an agreement with a third party is something that will make some people run away.

 

[Willem]

I didn't realize you could sign up with CivFanatics without an email address. Or do you only consider being FORCED to do something in regard to the luxury of video games as opposed to the luxury of internet forums?

You can still read the forums on this site without providing them any information, you're not completely blocked. Civ 5 will be disabled and you won't be able to play at all unless you provide Steam with your information. It would be different if you only had to set up a Steam account in order to unlock some of the advanced features, like Cloud saves, but that's not the case.

 

[Commander Bello]

You want to use 2k's products, you have to agree to 2k's EULA AND Valve's. Since the latter brings little or no benefit to most players, many of these object to having to agree to any kind of terms which grant them nothing worthwhile. That Steam grants nothing to SP users is debatable (one can say they bring relatively unobtrusive DRM), but having no choice but to sign an agreement with a third party is something that will make some people run away.

DRM isn't any benefit for any kind of purchaser, may the person be honest or dishonest.

DRM IS beneficial for the publisher, though.

So, the less intrusive DRM may be less annoying (if compared with UBISOFT's measures), yet stays being annoying anyway.

Therefore, Steam is of no value for single players.

 

[PotatoOverdose]

There's a much simpler way of looking at the whole steam issue. It is the lesser of evils.
Think about it. Would you rather have Civ V with Steam or Games for Windows Live?

 

[Willem]

Would you rather have Civ V with Steam or Games for Windows Live?

I have Windows Live for Fallout 3 and I have no problems with it at all. I installed the software, didn't have to register on any site and don't have to rely on it in any way. You can also disable it without there being any impact on the game whatsoever. I'm using the FOSE script extender which disables Live and I can still play the game. That won't be the case with Steam.

 

[Vordrax]

Therefore, Steam is of no value for single players.

How many single-player games do you have on Steam? I'm curious. I have several, and feel that the benefits outweigh any perceived inconvenience. Being able to download and install the game whenever and wherever I want without needing to find or carry a CD/DVD is a massive advantage. The built-in IM client is rather handy for those of us with friends as well, since there are many games out there which are alt-tab unfriendly. Achievements for people who care (I never have cared tremendously, though I suppose they're the main way to compete with other single player gamers.)

Apples and oranges.
You want to use civfanatics' services, you sign with civfanatics.
You want to use 2k's products, you have to agree to 2k's EULA AND Valve's. Since the latter brings little or no benefit to most players, many of these object to having to agree to any kind of terms which grant them nothing worthwhile. That Steam grants nothing to SP users is debatable (one can say they bring relatively unobtrusive DRM), but having no choice but to sign an agreement with a third party is something that will make some people run away.

There are a lot of what Wikipedia calls "weasel words" in this. "Many object," "some people," "most players." Who exactly are you talking about? The vocal minority on forums like this who yell out as loudly as they can "I refuse to use it for very vacuous reasons?" If Steam were incredibly unpopular, even among its users, maybe you'd have some ground. But it has plenty of users. Developers like it because they can avoid REALLY bad DRM, like SecuROM (and there are a few titles with SecuROM on Steam that I, and my friends who also use Steam, avoid like the plague.) Players like it because it saves time and physical space, no CD checks without having to use a crack, no worry about losing obnoxious CD keys and having to deal with customer service over the matter. As someone who has used it over 6 years, I have not seen a single, ACTUAL complaint on this forum that doesn't smack of ridiculous misinformation. It's always like "I don't want to use it because a friend of a guy on another message board tells me that it's awful! Guys, don't trust it!"

You can still read the forums on this site without providing them any information, you're not completely blocked. Civ 5 will be disabled and you won't be able to play at all unless you provide Steam with your information. It would be different if you only had to set up a Steam account in order to unlock some of the advanced features, like Cloud saves, but that's not the case.

You can watch trailers and Youtube videos without having a Steam account- i.e., you can experience but not interact with it, in the same vein as your ability to interact with the forum.

 

[Commander Bello]

How many single-player games do you have on Steam? I'm curious. I have several, and feel that the benefits outweigh any perceived inconvenience. Being able to download and install the game whenever and wherever I want without needing to find or carry a CD/DVD is a massive advantage. The built-in IM client is rather handy for those of us with friends as well, since there are many games out there which are alt-tab unfriendly. Achievements for people who care (I never have cared tremendously, though I suppose they're the main way to compete with other single player gamers.)

When I am playing a game, I am playing a game and do not care about having to chat with "friends".
And even if this would be my desire, then I would run Civ4 in windowed mode and wouldn't have any problem.
Furthermore, I prefer installing a game from DVD anytime over having to download half a GB through the net.
Competition with other single game players? In a game which actually lives on randomly created maps, free choice of leaders and a RNG?

In contrast to this, I will have to install third party software, I will have to think of manually set that software to offline-mode and I will have to rely on internet connection in case of wanting to install the game on a different computer.

 

[Willem]

You can watch trailers and Youtube videos without having a Steam account- i.e., you can experience but not interact with it, in the same vein as your ability to interact with the forum.

You're completely evading my point. Civ 5 requires a Steam account, without it I can't play. I don't care about trailers or You Tube videos, I care about playing Civ 5. Which won't be possible unless I provide information that I may not necessarily want to give out to some anonymous organization, especially one who doesn't even guarentee that my information won't be passed along to some third party and in fact wanrs that this will indeed happen. While I don't know know for sure what kind of info Steam requires from me to set up an account, I strongly suspect that it will be more than I had to do here. If you look up my profile, you'll notice that I've made very little information available to this site, and what I did reveal was my choice. I don't consider my personal information to be any of their business and the less I have to reveal to any site on the net, the better I like it. I certainly don't appreciate the idea that I'm going to be forced to provide information. That should be my choice, not something that is imposed upon me.

 

[Vordrax]

When I am playing a game, I am playing a game and do not care about having to chat with "friends".
And even if this would be my desire, then I would run Civ4 in windowed mode and wouldn't have any problem.
Furthermore, I prefer installing a game from DVD anytime over having to download half a GB through the net.

You keep saying "I, I, I" as though this game were made specifically for you. But it's not. As far as the DVD thing goes, I'm sorry, but I've been a gamer way too long to think that DVD installation and CD-keys and manual patching "beats" downloading and playing without any hassle on anything but a garbage internet connection.

Competition with other single game players? In a game which actually lives on randomly created maps, free choice of leaders and a RNG?

It's ironic that you would say that HERE of all places, CivFanatics that has regular games where players compete over scores in set conditions.

In contrast to this, I will have to install third party software, I will have to think of manually set that software to offline-mode and I will have to rely on internet connection in case of wanting to install the game on a different computer.

I don't think they'll shed too many tears if you don't buy the game for such shallow reasons. There are "many people" who enjoy Steam and will purchase the game on it, and I'm fairly certain statistics back me up on this. I'm against invasive DRM, moreso than most of the people here who just whine about it and suck it up (and that includes CD-checks.) If I believed Steam was the "invasive DRM" it is touted to be by a bunch of people who've never installed it and not just an incredibly convenient account-based platform, I wouldn't use it. I run a host of anti-virus, anti-spyware software, registry monitors, two firewalls (including PB), a router to ensure nothing gets through without being port-forwarded, No-Script on my browser, and *I* am calling *YOU* paranoid.

 

[Willem]

As far as the DVD thing goes, I'm sorry, but I've been a gamer way too long to think that DVD installation and CD-keys and manual patching "beats" downloading and playing without any hassle on anything but a garbage internet connection.

What crap! It takes a fraction of the time to install from a DVD and enter a CD-Key than it does to download a game. While you're still twiddling your thumbs waiting for your download to complete, I'd already be playing the game.

It's ironic that you would say that HERE of all places, CivFanatics that has regular games where players compete over scores in set conditions.

And how many people actually take part? The core of the Civ community is people who only play it as a single player game. If Steam provides advantages to those who like playing multi-player let it be an option for them, not a requirement for those of us who never do.

There are "many people" who enjoy Steam and will purchase the game on it, and I'm fairly certain statistics back me up on this.

I'm sure it provides a good service for some people who like that sort of thing, but it's not for everyone. And those of us who gain no benefit from it's features shouldn't be forced into it.

I'm against invasive DRM, moreso than most of the people here who just whine about it and suck it up (and that includes CD-checks.)

I really don't understand all this whining about having to stick a disc in the drive in order to play a game. What a colossal inconvenience!

 

[Vordrax]

You're completely evading my point. Civ 5 requires a Steam account, without it I can't play. I don't care about trailers or You Tube videos, I care about playing Civ 5.

You're completely evading my point. Posting on CivFanatics requires a CivFantatics account. Without it I can't post. I don't care about reading the front page or random articles, I care about posting on CivFanatics.

Which won't be possible unless I provide information that I may not necessarily want to give out to some anonymous organization, especially not who doesn't even guarentee that my information won't be passed along to some third party. While I don't know know for sure what kind of info Steam requires from me to set up an account, I strongly suspect that it will be more than I had to do here. If you look up my profile, you'll notice that I've made very little information available to this site, and what I did reveal was my choice. I don't consider my personal information to be any of their business and the less I have to reveal to any site on the net, the better I like it. I certainly don't appreciate the idea that I'm going to be forced to provide information. That should be my choice, not something that is imposed upon me.

It is your choice, in terms of buying it. As far as personal information goes, the only thing I see Valve collecting in their Privacy Policy is usage, demographic, or general user information that isn't Personally Identifiable Information (which is anything that can be directly linked to you.)

Have you actually read it and do you understand it? Or are you just guessing?

http://www.valvesoftware.com/privacy.html

...Valve will not share personally identifiable information with any third party unless the user agrees to such disclosure in advance. "Personally identifiable information" consists of a user's name, email address, physical address, or other data about the user that enables the recipient to personally identify the user.

If you read further, it elaborates and states that the only time it is technically "shared" is when a company is providing maintenance and can potentially see it. In this case, they are still bound by contractual law not to reveal any information they find.

EDIT:

What crap! It takes a fraction of the time to install from a DVD and enter a CD-Key than it does to download a game. While you're still twiddling your thumbs waiting for your download to complete, I'd already be playing the game.

I suppose if you have only a few games and you keep them on your desk, sure. Oh, unless you're talking about Civ 5. Once I preload it, I'll have it installed and running before you can get your pants on to drive to the store.

And how many people actually take part? The core of the Civ community is people who only play it as a single player game. If Steam provides advantages to those who like playing multi-player let it be an option for them, not a requirement for those of us who never do.

Again, you keep speaking for yourself. When I look at GOM's I see plenty of user submissions. How many people competed but didn't submit a score?

I'm sure it provides a good service for some people who like that sort of thing, but it's not for everyone. And those of us who gain no benefit from it's features shouldn't be forced into it.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me who put a gun to your head and said you had to buy Civ 5. You might as well complain that it forces you to use Windows (or Mac) as opposed to Linux.

I really don't understand all this whining about having to stick a disc in the drive in order to play a game. What a colossal inconvenience!

I really don't understand all this whining about having to put your email address in a black box in order to play a game. What a colossal inconvenience!