Steam - The 'somewhat explain it all guide'

[Commander Bello]

No one who is actually using Steam will suddenly decide that it is an evil force, because we know it's not- but there are people who are afraid of Steam that might change their minds and actually use it.

Of course, most of the people having fallen in the trap of Steam would not like to open their eyes and admit that they have delivered their rights to an anonymous company.

To defend their former decision not to read the privacy policy, not to care about to which degree they have given up their rights, it is quite understandable that now they are trying to convince as many others as ever possible to do the same.

Yet, the fact stays unchanged: forcing people to bind themselves to Steam for the purpose of playing singe player games doesn't make any sense for the customer - yet it makes a lot of sense for the publisher and Steam.
And that sense is expressed in bucks. They want to earn more money, and they are heavily fighting for the restriction of the purchaser's rights - since this may make them even more money.

 

[The_J]

Bello .

And I'm telling you that your reasons are bad, just as you are telling me that your reasons are good.

Fine .

I'm not asking for an action, you are complaining, that is obvious. I'm asking for a purpose. Do you believe your complaints will change anything?

Not directly.
Hopefully other people will think more about if they really want to buy Civ5.

I am attempting to help individuals who are on the fence by explaining how Steam actually works.

I did also .

In other words, your concerns are those shared by pretty much everyone who has at least some sense of security. You're not really adding any factual information, just an extra voice to dissent.

That's one of the goals.

but there are people who are afraid of Steam that might change their minds and actually use it.

Or not, hopefully.

I've answered this earlier, though you might have posted after I did.

Do you mean this post here?

 

[Vordrax]

Yet, for now, CivFanatics does not require me to log in for any modification.
Nor is it necessary to log into CF for playing Civ4.

You are seeing the difference?

I didn't realize you had paid for those mods and Civ4 through CivFanatics, I am deeply embarrassed to have made such a mistake.

Which in turn means of having paid for it months ago and by that granting the distribution service (Steam) a credit - yet without interest.

Well, that is assuming the value of the money doesn't change over the course of those months. I could be losing money.

Though Gabe Newell (he's with Valve, you haven't really demonstrated a great deal of knowledge about the company so I don't want to make any assumptions) has mentioned that they are considering setting up a player-investment system for funding game development. I know being forward-thinking is alien to some, but if you think about it real hard, you can see the potential advantages for such a system.

You are correct, there are much more users than just me.

And quite some of them are of the same opinion as I am and therefore will not buy the game.
In turn this means that 2K have shot themselves into their own feet.

I remember hearing the same sort of complaint a few moments before Half-Life 2 sold as many copies as it did. I don't remember those users laughing afterward, either.

Undoubtably, it does. Yet, much worse than the other way around.

Agreed. I can't really run that fast.

As we see, some people simply can't.

I see what you mean. It is somewhat difficult to classify a discussion in which only a single participant brings any facts or firsthand knowledge of the subject an "argument."

Quite correct. And so are Steam's so-called "achievements", aren't they?

Though I am sure such a man would at least utter "Steam sucks" in his dying breath, because he's a witty man, and doesn't afraid of anything.

The T-Rex evolved as well. Are they still running around?

I have often called CD-checks the dinosaur of DRM.

I do not need to try out automatic weapons to know that they may be lethal.
So, the argument of not having tried Steam is quite invalid when it is obvious that there is no point in having to use Steam for the purpose of a single-player game.

Ah, but that's a poor analogy. "Lethality" would, in this case, be more a statement of fact- no one has denied that "Steam is a program that connects to the internet and allows users to purchase and play games." We are discussing nuances and necessity of a particular firearm when you have never touched it in your life.

To enlighten the people who urgently do need such enlightenment.

Take me like a teacher: sometimes it is hard to teach even the less qualified students, yet the teacher stays uncomplaining and still does his best.

Forgive me for saying so, but if my teacher offered an incredibly firm opinion on something and then admitted to have no experience with it at all and that it was just a moderately educated guess, I would lose a bit of respect for that individual. Because that's not an opinion on fact, it's a preconception. And the path to enlightenment is not in assumption.

 

[Vordrax]

Of course, most of the people having fallen in the trap of Steam would not like to open their eyes and admit that they have delivered their rights to an anonymous company.

To defend their former decision not to read the privacy policy, not to care about to which degree they have given up their rights, it is quite understandable that now they are trying to convince as many others as ever possible to do the same.

We can go through it line for line when I get back if you want. Go ahead and post the portion of which you speak (write?) and I'll respond when I return.

 

[The_J]

I didn't realize you had paid for those mods and Civ4 through CivFanatics, I am deeply embarrassed to have made such a mistake.

Oh, most here will not pay steam.
Or at least don't want.

I remember hearing the same sort of complaint a few moments before Half-Life 2 sold as many copies as it did. I don't remember those users laughing afterward, either.

So the first time has still to come .

Ah, but that's a poor analogy. "Lethality" would, in this case, be more a statement of fact- no one has denied that "Steam is a program that connects to the internet and allows users to purchase and play games." We are discussing nuances and necessity of a particular firearm when you have never touched it in your life.

But you don't say, that you can be against firearms, even without having touched one, right ?

Forgive me for saying so, but if my teacher offered an incredibly firm opinion on something and then admitted to have no experience with it at all and that it was just a moderately educated guess, I would lose a bit of respect for that individual.

I guess, but killing someone might be bad, but i'm not sure, it's just an educated guess .
-> no experience here needed, and i can have a firm opinion.

 

[Vordrax]

But you don't say, that you can be against firearms, even without having touched one, right ?

I guess, but killing someone might be bad, but i'm not sure, it's just an educated guess .
-> no experience here needed, and i can have a firm opinion.

I saw this before I left. I just want to say that, as someone who has had family members and friends murdered, I find it incredibly offensive that you would liken taking a life to an online gaming service. I don't even know what to say to someone like you. That is absolutely disgusting. If you don't see why those two analogies are not similar, I don't know how to help you.

 

[Chalks]

I saw this before I left. I just want to say that, as someone who has had family members and friends murdered, I find it incredibly offensive that you would liken taking a life to an online gaming service. I don't even know what to say to someone like you. That is absolutely disgusting. If you don't see why those two analogies are not similar, I don't know how to help you.

Rubbish as his point is, requiring someone to have a full life history or psychic talent before engaging in hyperbole is a bit much.

 

[Sterf]

Comparing Steam with lethal firearms and buying a game with murder is also a bit much.

 

[Chalks]

Comparing Steam with lethal firearms and buying a game with murder is also a bit much.

Yep. I believe his last attempt at an analogy was crack cocaine.

Not really... getting it.

 

[The_J]

I don't want to talk about murder.
I just want to say, that you can have a firm opinion against something, even without having tested it yourself.
The example is sure hyperbole, but still valid.


edit: Don't forget my anal sex analogy.

 

[Chalks]

edit: Don't forget my anal sex analogy.

Man, I ain't ever gonna get that example out of my head

 

[The_J]

So you can't await to try it out and have to thing everytime of it ?

 

[Chalks]

So you can't await to try it out and have to thing everytime of it ?

Are you coming on to me?

 

[The_J]

I guess i don't live somewhere where i can reach you easily, sorry .

Edit: And don't forget, i'm one of these silly persons do not want to try some things out.
But i could pay you a callboy instead .

2. edit: I guess i've now killed the discussion and i know the next thread to be locked.

 

[Vordrax]

Rubbish as his point is, requiring someone to have a full life history or psychic talent before engaging in hyperbole is a bit much.

I was merely pointing out that I had personal experience with it, not that I found it offensive because he didn't know I had personal experience with it.

I don't want to talk about murder.
I just want to say, that you can have a firm opinion against something, even without having tested it yourself.
The example is sure hyperbole, but still valid.

You cannot intelligently discuss nuance when you haven't experienced it, or have demonstrated a reasonable amount of knowledge regarding it. For your analogies- you're not the "virgin Biology student" talking about sex, you're the "10 year old kid who heard all about it from his 13 year old brother who read something about it on the internet" talking about sex. There is a distinct difference.

 

[StittsvilleJame]

I don't get the big deal with steam.

People will give their housecleaner a key to their home, but are afraid of sending in their hardware specs to a company which may use those to provide a better gaming experience.

People will happily provide their credit card info to the gas station attendant, who makes minimum wage, but feel it's way too risky for a software company to know their email address.

Just sayin...

 

[Willem]

I don't get the big deal with steam.

People will give their housecleaner a key to their home, but are afraid of sending in their hardware specs to a company which may use those to provide a better gaming experience.

People will happily provide their credit card info to the gas station attendant, who makes minimum wage, but feel it's way too risky for a software company to know their email address.

Just sayin...

There's alot more to it than just security. There's a number of reasons why I don't like the idea of requiring Steam. Individually the reasons are fairly minor and not enough to deter me from buying the game, but when I put them all together it comes up as a no sale for me. I'd list my reasons but that wouldn't satisfy the Steam evangelists anyway, and I'd just end up getting bad-mouthed by them regardless of how I felt about it, so I won't bother. I'm not even sure why I'm bothering responding to these threads, they just end up getting drowned out by the vocal minority that feel Steam is the next best thing to sainthood. I may even have reconsidered my position had there been some reasonable debates happening, but their constant prosletyzing and condescending tone have simply hardened my view against the idea. Great job on convincing me guys.

 

[Sterf]

Nobody cares if you buy the game or not, you know. People argue because of misinformation and paranoid nonsense being spread by a vocal minority that think Steam is the devil incarnate, not to convince special you.

 

[Willem]

Geez, another one. If this is indictative of the kind of people that use Steam, I'll avoid that service like the plague. It's being used mainly by a bunch of adolescent trolls from what I can see here.

 

[Sterf]

Geez, another one. If this is indictative of the kind of people that use Steam, I'll avoid that service like the plague. It's being used mainly by a bunch of adolescent trolls from what I can see here.

I'm just saying you're not all that important, and seriously noone cares if you buy the game or not. It just would be nice if the people that won't buy it would shut up about not buying it, it's getting ridiculous. If you have some arguments against steam, feel free to voice them. Don't be all offended if someone has a different opinion and actually likes steam though. You buying it or not and telling people who like steam that they are supposed to convince you of it is ridiculous and completely unnecessary.

Namecalling is also not what I call mature you know.