Steph's next great project announcement

[Steph]

The fun part is you can resize this view as you want

This view is simple : I simply use different colors for desert, plains, grasslands, tundra, coast, sea and ocean.

Hills, mountains and vegetation is not displayed here yet. I will have to find different shades of colors to show them.

My question is what should I do with forested mountains, show them as forest, or as mountain?

I also need to draw the rectangle showing the current view.

 

[WildWeazel]

I suppose the discussion about supply lines has been exhausted, and I haven't taken the time to read all 8 pages to know if this has been said, but here is another idea on food supply:

Each tile produces a certain amount of food per turn , as in Civ3. this food is harvested and stored in the city. Units in the city can load up on food from the granary before departing on a campaign. Once the unit leaves a road connection to a friendly city, it consumes one food per turn. Supply units like carts or helicopters also tank up on food, and can deliver it to the hungry units. These units have a certain capacity of food storage, but could return to the delivery point for more if it is left defended from enemies who could use it as well. Another option is for the army to take a supply truck/caravan to store extra food for later. This would give a touchy, strategic realism to the game which would force concepts such as unit rotation, open supply paths, and cutting enemy trade systems.

Another resource needed would be fuel. This could be more tricky, as mechanical units would need refueling stations near the battle front. I guess it would work the same way as food, but most vehicles would have to refuel every turn, so I'm not sure if it would be practical.

 

[aaminion00]

It would be complicated, especially because each turn is at the very least 2 years in real life.

Perhaps in some modern scenarios it would be an interesting additional feature.

 

[Steph]

Such supply lines would be to complicated (for the player) and need to much micromanagement. Moreover, it won't really fit with the scale of the game.

I'd rather use a sligthly different way : at the end of a strategic turn, a unit must be in supply range of a city, and this city must have access to the necessary resources (not only food, but also oil or ammunition).
During a strategic turns (when supply is checked), you have several operational turns (where you moave an attack). So you can move into ennemy territory, and then either come back for supply, or keep attacking and hope you will manage to capture the ennemy city to get a new supply sources.

One more thing : you can also try to get suplly directly from your tile. But it will be easier with ancient units, that need food only, than for modern units, that need refined oil, spare parts or ammunition.

Don't forget that civ III scale is quite large. So a mechanized unit does not need[\B] to refuel every few hours, when the turn can last 20 years. This must be abstracted : refuelling trucks will make trips to bring the unit, so it should not be out of fuel, as long as the truck are able to make rotation. I think limiting the distance between the unit and a supply point should be enough.
And this distance will increase with techonology : we can consider that when helicopters are discovered, it is possible to draw a supply line over mountain, but not before for instance.

 

[Steph]

Only a minor update today. I've got Bloodmoon, the extension for Morrowind, and Im' busy playing it.

I've just added a rectangle in the Global view that shows the current part of the map, and when you click in the global view it center the map there.
It doesn't seem much, but it took me some time as the global view is resizabled.

I hope to add rivers before tomorrow.

 

[Sir John]

This is coming along great...

About the supply lines (I also dont want to read evrything) I agree that it should be done simple... In a game like this there shouldnt be to much micromanagment.. I think that the simplest idea would be to have a supply zone for the cities (like the cultural sone in civ3). If the units go over that sone theyre in risk of loosing hitpoint unless they find a natural food resource.. Becasue of this workers should be able to build a resuplly base.. this base should extend the supply zone.. the supply zone would grow accordingly to how much food is in its area.. (like getting food points instead of culture points)..

This would be a cool twist and not to hard for the player...

 

[Sir John]

the resupply bases would be like small cities but u can only build food thingys in it.. A granary would give food points as well...

 

[Steph]

Sir John, supply should work a bit like that : units won't be able to go to far from cities, or shore (resupply by sea).

 

[warpstorm]

Looking good. If I had the time I'd love to help. Sadly, I don't have the time right now. Maybe later (this will be going on for many, many months, I'm sure) if you need a programmer for help, I'll be able to pitch in.

Does your map editor support cut and paste and undo/redo? These would really speed up map making.

(If you wanted to go over the top consider multiple elevations ala SMAC).

 

[Sir John]

multiple elevations would be awsome but its I think its a lot of work for steph.. also I dont see how it could be implented when he is usong the normal civ3 terrain... he would need a new terrain set to do that... but it would be cool, Ill agree on that..

 

[warpstorm]

He could use the current terrain as a texture and then texture map it onto a lit 3d terrain. Having said that, if the game doesn't have use for elevations in its gameplay, it would be wasted effort.

 

[WildWeazel]

Now that I think about it, my idea would require too much micromanagement. I support Sir John's idea.

But what about sea travel? It seems too restricting to limit vessels to areas near harbors. What about circumnavigation? Sailing around Africa? Earlier sea units should be able to carry food for several turns at sea, or be able to stop along the coast for a turn to resupply.
Scouts and explorers should also be able to wander for long periods. I mean, the idea is to leave the homeland and venture out into the great unknown. Maybe some units could be free from supply needs altogether.

 

[WildWeazel]

Also, about elevation...
It could add some interesting concepts, like defensive bonuses or climate change, but on the other hand it would probably be a lot of hard work for steph

Instead of adding a whole new "level' (no pun intended) of detail to the map, maybe there could just me more terrain types- like low hills, plateau, swamps, etc to simulate elevation. The different types could be coded to appear in certain patterns maybe, like swamps around the coast, plateaus surrounded by hills little things to give the world a 3d effect. The new terrain could have (possibly ) combat bonuses against other terrain types - for example, a unit on a hill would have a 50% bonus against an attacker from the low plains, but the same attacker from the higher mountains might have a 25% bonus over the one on the plateau. I don't know if this would be too hard to incorporate or not. If so, perhaps the "higher" terrain would have the highest bonuses, while the lowest, flattest terrain would have none.

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by warpstorm
He could use the current terrain as a texture and then texture map it onto a lit 3d terrain. Having said that, if the game doesn't have use for elevations in its gameplay, it would be wasted effort.

1- The engine is 2D, not 3D
2- It won't be used in game
3- Hill, moutains, high mountains and flat = 4 levels of elevation

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by WWWeasel
But what about sea travel? It seems too restricting to limit vessels to areas near harbors. What about circumnavigation? Sailing around Africa? Earlier sea units should be able to carry food for several turns at sea, or be able to stop along the coast for a turn to resupply.
Scouts and explorers should also be able to wander for long periods. I mean, the idea is to leave the homeland and venture out into the great unknown. Maybe some units could be free from supply needs altogether.

The upkeep cost will be variable, so explorer will usually able to feed from the land.
However, explored terrain is temporarily known. So if the explorer dies (native attack, captured by ennemy, of simply lack of supply when venturing in desert), then you lose the knowledge of his discovery...
The resupply distance will be different wether by land or by sea

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by WWWeasel
Also, about elevation...
It could add some interesting concepts, like defensive bonuses or climate change, but on the other hand it would probably be a lot of hard work for steph

Instead of adding a whole new "level' (no pun intended) of detail to the map, maybe there could just me more terrain types- like low hills, plateau, swamps, etc to simulate elevation. The different types could be coded to appear in certain patterns maybe, like swamps around the coast, plateaus surrounded by hills little things to give the world a 3d effect. The new terrain could have (possibly ) combat bonuses against other terrain types - for example, a unit on a hill would have a 50% bonus against an attacker from the low plains, but the same attacker from the higher mountains might have a 25% bonus over the one on the plateau. I don't know if this would be too hard to incorporate or not. If so, perhaps the "higher" terrain would have the highest bonuses, while the lowest, flattest terrain would have none.

This is doable : find me artists who can make the various graphics, including plateau, etc, and I can possibly do it.

But frankly, I'm not sure the current system is not enough.

 

[Sir John]

the thingy that u loose the discovered terrain is superb... he would have to go to a city so that the discoverys could be stored.. this would be more realistic...

I also have another suggestion. What about having different weather around the map... They do this in smac with clouds... Im not sure if it would be doable in this game but it would be cool.. for exampel artillery/ranged attacks could be suffering from fog and bad weather... snow/sand storms could lower hitpoins at units and kill people/buildings in cities... weather/natural disasters should be in the game.. this lacks in civ3...

 

[Steph]

I don't think weather should be in game, given the game scale.

Except perhaps in the tactical map when solving battles.

However, there could be natural disasters, including exceptional bad weather, with corresponding graphics, showing when the disaster occurs

 

[Sir John]

what u mean by in tactical map??

 

[Sir John]

Oh yeah.. and a important thing... WE NEED TO SAIL RIVERS!!!!

please make this doable.. make something like small river and large river.. (smallriver on the sides and large river in the middle of the tile...)

It would be possible to go up a river with certain boats (a river flag for boats) This would make the vikings with there longships a lots more fun and realistic to play..

Also rivers should function as roads when it comes to resources.. it should be possible to be resource conected by rivers...

This river thing would give the game more realism and more fun. Civ3 really lacks this... I really hope u can implent this. I know a lot of people who would be glad...

BTW: Maby u should make a new thread for this as the game is coming more on now... I think more people would look into the thread then... i got here by your link in another thread so it might be an idea making a new thread called SSS so that more people would look into this.. also it would become more neat