das
Regeneration In Process
Wouldn't say so, what about Dacia (or Gothia. Jason really confused me with them. But apparently its Goths creating a nation called Dacia)?
stNNES VI: A New Fantastic Point of View
- Thread starter North King
- Start date
das said:
thats who I used to beat up; the Illyrians provided the king (so I could have temperoray control of the Dacians) but Illyria itself didnt send a soldire; my own nation was preoocupied with with castingting Sicilly outof mainland Italy because the Etruscans joined Illyria on that condition.
das
Regeneration In Process
That WAS what I meant, wasn't that? I wonder how your Illyria would have faired had I overrun Dacia before you could react... 
Insane_Panda
Deity
I was ready to utterly and completely smash everything in the south pacific with my huge 500 ship gunpowder fleet and take it all for myself and crush Erez's Kush - which for decades had competed with me for trade in the Indian ocean.
Then the world closed in on itself
Then the world closed in on itself
das said:That WAS what I meant, wasn't that? I wonder how your Illyria would have faired had I overrun Dacia before you could react...
then you woudl be understregth, undermanned, and over strettced, and I woudl have utterlly raped you- dont delude your self, I'm trying to force NESing into realistic outcomes of ancient and medieval winner takes all battles, including low casulties, but at the time it was popular for moderators to essentially even the casulties, and make things "fair", "fair" to the point where if you did conqoure a nation, you were generally too weak to do anythign else for a while.
You're having an interesting discussion and I don't see how I can contribute, BUT I do see 'that' (Mods evening out battles as if their lives were depending on the outcome) happening to a lot of my Elite +1 armies against a ca. five times inferior force of Celtic berserker rabble.
Fer example in TexNes Rise of Europe I lost 10.000 Avalonian Knights (Elite +1) and killed 40.000 Celtish troops (Rabble)... please note that this was OFF the scale. The only things that could've made it worse was if the Celts had been Rabble Conscripts (!). Rabble versus elite (+1)... 175k troops against 40k disorganized, outmaneuevered barbarians and I still took significant casualties.
Not to mention the fact that this was my lucky battle, I was counting on mebbe 20k casualties.
But that doesn't matter, I kicked their ass and was glad to do it and grateful for it to happen. Those guys had been bothering me awfully.
What sort of ticks me off in that great campaign (just in case Tex is reading this) that I appreciate is that the population of England doesn't kick in and the male warrior population in the country in the country is ca. 200k.
(Then again I do happen to be the Paladin of unbalanced games...)
I think big countries in NES's should work like in CIV. If you have a fifty times as large population at the same level of wealth and resources you should be able to build an army that's fifty times superior in size. Alas that will not happen - PERHAPS for the betterment of all.
Fer example in TexNes Rise of Europe I lost 10.000 Avalonian Knights (Elite +1) and killed 40.000 Celtish troops (Rabble)... please note that this was OFF the scale. The only things that could've made it worse was if the Celts had been Rabble Conscripts (!). Rabble versus elite (+1)... 175k troops against 40k disorganized, outmaneuevered barbarians and I still took significant casualties.
Not to mention the fact that this was my lucky battle, I was counting on mebbe 20k casualties.
But that doesn't matter, I kicked their ass and was glad to do it and grateful for it to happen.
Those guys had been bothering me awfully.What sort of ticks me off in that great campaign (just in case Tex is reading this) that I appreciate is that the population of England doesn't kick in and the male warrior population in the country in the country is ca. 200k.
(Then again I do happen to be the Paladin of unbalanced games...)
I think big countries in NES's should work like in CIV. If you have a fifty times as large population at the same level of wealth and resources you should be able to build an army that's fifty times superior in size. Alas that will not happen - PERHAPS for the betterment of all.
The Army of the Republic
An Optimate Tercero(Optimo) commands his troops at the battle of the Campus Martii, just outside the city of Rome
The Role of the Army
The army of Ravenna; a proud institution, an important part of the republic, both for the obvious means of protecting the nation from barbarian tyrannies, but also as an important counter balance for the Republic as a form of government.
Unlike most nations, be they a republic, oligarchy, or monarchy, the army takes np place in the power structure of the government, and at first glance, one would imagine this is how things should be; the army subservient to the state in all things; but this is a faulty concept; good in theory, it often leads to trouble; greedy politicians looking out only for their own fame, and not the good of the nation all to often climb their way up the military ladder, aided by private funds, or other manipulatory schemes to use a nations army to their own distinct advantage, and not for the good of the nation; but, as is the reason for most of the workings of Republic, the odd start; a citizens revolt, not a nobles revolt is what led to the suicide of the last King of Ravenna, and it is because of that, that Ravenna as avoided oligarchic taint in which our nation detests, such as the manipulation fo the army by would be nobles and royalty.
By giving the Army a distinct share in government, and more importantly, by banning for life all those people who partake in it (at all) from all other spheres of the government, and by having strict limits on their powers (that can be checked by the force of might of the citizen militias, whom are under judicial, not Military Tribuneate control, unless otherwise noted) that Ravenna can check the Politician-General Disease before it begins for our Republic. By letting military masters, whom have a lifetime of experience call the shots in military matters, rather then letting know it all hot shots of civilian life whom have come to political power make faulty maneuvers, Ravenna has assured itself a quality of army unmatched; an army that in the end, knows no classes other then the earned rank a soldier has earned, and deserves.
The men of the elite Victrix regiment of Optimates are shown here in the raid of Neapolis, having just thrown their Pila, the soldires duck under their shields and await any return fire, while the Optimo, and his Decimos re-dress the ranks. The Only battle against piratical forces, the soldiers of the VII Victrix, with archer support were able to massacre the forces that attempted to raid the city of Neapolis; the massacre was complete (their were no enemy survivors) and as such, since their were no survivors to interrogate, it is not known if it was the Balearic nation, or a splinter group that was responsible for the raid (evidence points to it not being anything related directly to the Balearics however, so it may have been traitors and deserters from them that commissioned the raid), though the Victrix, the same as it had during the full thrust campaign into central Italy sustained no losses, and no notable losses were recorded for the archer regiments attached to them during the battle.
Ranks of the Army
The army of Ravenna is an effective war machine, in part, because it is a (primarily) merit based army, and is a structured, and well co-ordinated unit on and off the battle field, and this structure can be best observed, in general perhaps, by the system of rank used in the republics army.
Primary Ranks
(Numerically based, and simple to understand)
Primero- 1st Analogous to a high marshal, or General in other nations; is generally the senior officer in an army, unless there is another Primero present, in which secondary ranks establish seniority; a member of the Tribunate council in Ravenna, they are principle members of the council in Ravenna, and in the field (and the Tribunate as a whole, as most know, is separated into the home council, and commanders in the field, so that effective courses of immediate action may be taken, which can be followed up with actions from the home council as needed)
Segundo- 2nd These men are of Prime importance; if the Primero is the brain of an army, the Segundo serve as the nerves, and many times, the imagination of the brain as well; generally, there is one Segundo for every 300 men in a field detachment, and for a 600 man total force, its often a senior Segundo, and two juniors of that rank whom act as the full upper command for the force. Highly competent men, generally noted for innovative solutions to problems, courage in the face of danger, honor, dignity, and loyalty to the republic; and more often then not, come from a relatively humble background
Tercero- 3rd While the Primero and Segundos act as the primary command staff, it is the Terceros whom one can say are the back bone of an army; these are the men who command groups of 80 soldiers (or 75 Optimates, but they have a specialty designation) Men whom command the respect of all others, Segundos and Primeros included, they are for sure lifetime soldiers, promoted to this station for having the tact, instinct, strength, bravery and perhaps the stupidity to charge into battle and win (OOC; in other words, a Centurion)
Optimo*- Specialty rank for a Tercero of an Optimate regiment, exceptional bravery recognized is required to attain such a position
Cuarto- 4th Sub-Commanders of 40 to the Tercero of a regiment, they act as lieutenants for him; generally a regiment (of 80) will have at least one, many times 2 Cuartos
Decimo*- 10th Orgionally a reference for a watch commander, now refers to a Cuarto of an Optimate regiment; the difference is instead of 1 for every 40, there is one for every 25; Optimates are trained to be able to fight loose, or close, in the civilized, or barbarian manners, and this requires the ability to be able to function in smaller groups, in this case, war bands of 25 men on specialty assignments.
Tessario- Watch commander; one soldier per every 10 is designated as such, based on merit, for Optimates, it is one for every 15 soldiers
Secondary Ranks
(Secondary Ranks, titles and awards that are not of direct importance generally, but help
establish seniority of commanders if a pre placed hierarchy is not created by the Tribuneate
or a high Primero; they are numerous awards for bravery, strength, luck, and so on, and do not need to be listed, because they are so numerous)
Soldiers
Spearmen
The Backbone of the Republics army, and indeed, the back bone of most nations army, as one might expect. Well trained and motivated, they can get the job done nicely, and have done so for generations. Well organized, and well coordinated, they generally make thier name of the battlefield by being more flexible as tactical unit, and bluntly speaking, more ballsy on a personal level then the opponents they face.
-The are armed with a generic thrusting spear, a sword, and a Pilum, with a medium-large shield, greaves, and body armor.
Archers
-finely trained warriors, skilled with the use of the deadly shafts of Apollo and Diana, they are a crucial part of any republic army
Militia
The Milita, drummed up in the standard fashion, are not what most nations would consider milita in the classic sense; rather these troops army really a first line of defense (but can be used as a last line, and currently are doing so in the northern cities, which outside territory is overrun by Celts) they are border patrolmen, and police, and as such, while usually under the command of the local Military commander, are actually on lease from the Judicial branch of government, for if their was an attempt at a military coup, the republic would be able to defend itself against the would be monarch. Armed with several Pilums, a large, shield, a helmet, and a side sword, they arent heavily armored, but considering they arent supposed to be on the battle field they are very well equipped; better equipped then most other nations full time soldiers!
Optimates
These men are the pride of the Republic; devotedly loyal to the Republic,(the methods for which these troops are recruited has been discussed before, and while it is a defining characteristic of these troops, or at least helps give them flavor, I feel free to skip it)
Heavy infantry with the finest training and equipment in all the republic, while the can, because of their heavy Pilums, function as spearmen, their primary function is cross between the heavy infantry-skirmisher armies of the barbarians, and the classic heavy infantry roles of the civilized nations.
Trained from the outset with this in mind, these troops are at home fighting in one-on-one combats with the greatest and grandest of Celt or German warlords, or crushing the armies of Latium and Samnium in the classic formations and maneuvers that characterizes civilized nations, for Ravenna has always been in the position where both forms of fighting are needed -and indeed, has worked hard to perfect both.
Armed with two heavy Pila, a broad-short sword, and with some of the greatest armor forgeable by the hands of man at all, the skilled smiths of Ravenna provide the materials, and the nation provides the men to make one of the most effective fighting forces yet known. Founded at the birth of the republic, their have traditionally been 7 units of Optimate troops, of 75 soldiers each (most commanders deem even that number over kill for a unit of Optimates, and so each regiment is used to being divided into smaller groups, for the soldiers are more then well trained, skilled, equipped, and prepared to do make up for quantity with quality, and many a man has trembled with fear under the assault of the Optimate warrior) each with their own distinguished shield patterns, names, histories, and merits. An important part of the history of Ravenna, no summery of the army, or the history of it could be complete without at least mentioning these varied units
Name: I- The Sons of Mars
Motto: Cry Havoc
Details: The First unit of Optimates created, they have distinguished themselves many a time on the northern front, fighting both with and against Celt, Illyrian and German alike, when not in war, they are generally found acting as guardians for the Major shrines to the war God, and their Optimo is generally an ordained priest of Mars.
Name: II- The Hammers of Justitia
Motto: Justitia
Details: A unit of Optimates generally used for defensive purposes, they earned their name by, in the birth fo the republic, enforcing the laws of the Senate on many an unruly, and otherwise rebellious noble house. The Clubs are a symbol of the fate that met most of the leaders of these houses of treachery to the republic.
Name: III- The Capricorns
Motto: F-You
Details: A rather beloved motto has earned a fair amount of popularity for this particular unit, whom is devoted to the God Saturn, and so adopted a sign of the Zodiac (the Zodiac, and Astrology actually being quite important in the native religion of Ravenna) men whom were born under that sign are generally considered lucky in the Opitmates, but doubly so when serving in the Capricorn regiment itself
Name: IV- Solaria
Motto: For Glory and Honour!
Details: A Unit that hasnt turelly distinguished itself, all said, they have proven effective in all that they do, but that is what is expected of a regiment of Optimates in the first place; as of late however, they have been giving exceptional efforts to distinguish themselves, prompting some to comment that a name change to Exceptionae may be in order, for their sheer efforts
Name: V- The Cock's
Motto: Always the first man in, always the last man out
Details: The less said about these men the better. Lets just say they fancy a good time
(OOC; Im probably going to end up in hell for all that 
)
Name: VI- Nau
Motto: Ship shape
Details: a speciality unit, even amongst the Optimates, these men specialize in performing Marine operations, and they carry them out with great ability, and courage
Name: VII- Victrix/ The Victors
Motto: Victoria!
Details: This is the most prestigious unit in all the republic, even more so then either the Capricorns...or the 5th regiment.... formed of the most skilled and honored, brave and strong men from the other regiments, they are an elite amongst elites, and are accorded double strength because of it; instead of the Normal 75 men, the Victrix regiment has 150 men of the finest order, and has served the republic in stunning fashion since their initial inception. Indeed, of the all the regiments that served in the most recent wars of the republic, inthe full thrust campaign into central Italy, it is, stunning that the Victrix regiment is one of only two regiments to sustain no losses for the entire camapign (the other was regiment 5.... The Cock's )
A stunnign display of the martial prowess of the republic, they are skilled and proud warriors of the republic.
An Optimate Tercero(Optimo) commands his troops at the battle of the Campus Martii, just outside the city of Rome
The Role of the Army
The army of Ravenna; a proud institution, an important part of the republic, both for the obvious means of protecting the nation from barbarian tyrannies, but also as an important counter balance for the Republic as a form of government.
Unlike most nations, be they a republic, oligarchy, or monarchy, the army takes np place in the power structure of the government, and at first glance, one would imagine this is how things should be; the army subservient to the state in all things; but this is a faulty concept; good in theory, it often leads to trouble; greedy politicians looking out only for their own fame, and not the good of the nation all to often climb their way up the military ladder, aided by private funds, or other manipulatory schemes to use a nations army to their own distinct advantage, and not for the good of the nation; but, as is the reason for most of the workings of Republic, the odd start; a citizens revolt, not a nobles revolt is what led to the suicide of the last King of Ravenna, and it is because of that, that Ravenna as avoided oligarchic taint in which our nation detests, such as the manipulation fo the army by would be nobles and royalty.
By giving the Army a distinct share in government, and more importantly, by banning for life all those people who partake in it (at all) from all other spheres of the government, and by having strict limits on their powers (that can be checked by the force of might of the citizen militias, whom are under judicial, not Military Tribuneate control, unless otherwise noted) that Ravenna can check the Politician-General Disease before it begins for our Republic. By letting military masters, whom have a lifetime of experience call the shots in military matters, rather then letting know it all hot shots of civilian life whom have come to political power make faulty maneuvers, Ravenna has assured itself a quality of army unmatched; an army that in the end, knows no classes other then the earned rank a soldier has earned, and deserves.
The men of the elite Victrix regiment of Optimates are shown here in the raid of Neapolis, having just thrown their Pila, the soldires duck under their shields and await any return fire, while the Optimo, and his Decimos re-dress the ranks. The Only battle against piratical forces, the soldiers of the VII Victrix, with archer support were able to massacre the forces that attempted to raid the city of Neapolis; the massacre was complete (their were no enemy survivors) and as such, since their were no survivors to interrogate, it is not known if it was the Balearic nation, or a splinter group that was responsible for the raid (evidence points to it not being anything related directly to the Balearics however, so it may have been traitors and deserters from them that commissioned the raid), though the Victrix, the same as it had during the full thrust campaign into central Italy sustained no losses, and no notable losses were recorded for the archer regiments attached to them during the battle.
Ranks of the Army
The army of Ravenna is an effective war machine, in part, because it is a (primarily) merit based army, and is a structured, and well co-ordinated unit on and off the battle field, and this structure can be best observed, in general perhaps, by the system of rank used in the republics army.
Primary Ranks
(Numerically based, and simple to understand)
Primero- 1st Analogous to a high marshal, or General in other nations; is generally the senior officer in an army, unless there is another Primero present, in which secondary ranks establish seniority; a member of the Tribunate council in Ravenna, they are principle members of the council in Ravenna, and in the field (and the Tribunate as a whole, as most know, is separated into the home council, and commanders in the field, so that effective courses of immediate action may be taken, which can be followed up with actions from the home council as needed)
Segundo- 2nd These men are of Prime importance; if the Primero is the brain of an army, the Segundo serve as the nerves, and many times, the imagination of the brain as well; generally, there is one Segundo for every 300 men in a field detachment, and for a 600 man total force, its often a senior Segundo, and two juniors of that rank whom act as the full upper command for the force. Highly competent men, generally noted for innovative solutions to problems, courage in the face of danger, honor, dignity, and loyalty to the republic; and more often then not, come from a relatively humble background
Tercero- 3rd While the Primero and Segundos act as the primary command staff, it is the Terceros whom one can say are the back bone of an army; these are the men who command groups of 80 soldiers (or 75 Optimates, but they have a specialty designation) Men whom command the respect of all others, Segundos and Primeros included, they are for sure lifetime soldiers, promoted to this station for having the tact, instinct, strength, bravery and perhaps the stupidity to charge into battle and win (OOC; in other words, a Centurion)
Optimo*- Specialty rank for a Tercero of an Optimate regiment, exceptional bravery recognized is required to attain such a position
Cuarto- 4th Sub-Commanders of 40 to the Tercero of a regiment, they act as lieutenants for him; generally a regiment (of 80) will have at least one, many times 2 Cuartos
Decimo*- 10th Orgionally a reference for a watch commander, now refers to a Cuarto of an Optimate regiment; the difference is instead of 1 for every 40, there is one for every 25; Optimates are trained to be able to fight loose, or close, in the civilized, or barbarian manners, and this requires the ability to be able to function in smaller groups, in this case, war bands of 25 men on specialty assignments.
Tessario- Watch commander; one soldier per every 10 is designated as such, based on merit, for Optimates, it is one for every 15 soldiers
Secondary Ranks
(Secondary Ranks, titles and awards that are not of direct importance generally, but help
establish seniority of commanders if a pre placed hierarchy is not created by the Tribuneate
or a high Primero; they are numerous awards for bravery, strength, luck, and so on, and do not need to be listed, because they are so numerous)
Soldiers
Spearmen
The Backbone of the Republics army, and indeed, the back bone of most nations army, as one might expect. Well trained and motivated, they can get the job done nicely, and have done so for generations. Well organized, and well coordinated, they generally make thier name of the battlefield by being more flexible as tactical unit, and bluntly speaking, more ballsy on a personal level then the opponents they face.
-The are armed with a generic thrusting spear, a sword, and a Pilum, with a medium-large shield, greaves, and body armor.
Archers
-finely trained warriors, skilled with the use of the deadly shafts of Apollo and Diana, they are a crucial part of any republic army
Militia
The Milita, drummed up in the standard fashion, are not what most nations would consider milita in the classic sense; rather these troops army really a first line of defense (but can be used as a last line, and currently are doing so in the northern cities, which outside territory is overrun by Celts) they are border patrolmen, and police, and as such, while usually under the command of the local Military commander, are actually on lease from the Judicial branch of government, for if their was an attempt at a military coup, the republic would be able to defend itself against the would be monarch. Armed with several Pilums, a large, shield, a helmet, and a side sword, they arent heavily armored, but considering they arent supposed to be on the battle field they are very well equipped; better equipped then most other nations full time soldiers!
Optimates
These men are the pride of the Republic; devotedly loyal to the Republic,(the methods for which these troops are recruited has been discussed before, and while it is a defining characteristic of these troops, or at least helps give them flavor, I feel free to skip it)
Heavy infantry with the finest training and equipment in all the republic, while the can, because of their heavy Pilums, function as spearmen, their primary function is cross between the heavy infantry-skirmisher armies of the barbarians, and the classic heavy infantry roles of the civilized nations.
Trained from the outset with this in mind, these troops are at home fighting in one-on-one combats with the greatest and grandest of Celt or German warlords, or crushing the armies of Latium and Samnium in the classic formations and maneuvers that characterizes civilized nations, for Ravenna has always been in the position where both forms of fighting are needed -and indeed, has worked hard to perfect both.
Armed with two heavy Pila, a broad-short sword, and with some of the greatest armor forgeable by the hands of man at all, the skilled smiths of Ravenna provide the materials, and the nation provides the men to make one of the most effective fighting forces yet known. Founded at the birth of the republic, their have traditionally been 7 units of Optimate troops, of 75 soldiers each (most commanders deem even that number over kill for a unit of Optimates, and so each regiment is used to being divided into smaller groups, for the soldiers are more then well trained, skilled, equipped, and prepared to do make up for quantity with quality, and many a man has trembled with fear under the assault of the Optimate warrior) each with their own distinguished shield patterns, names, histories, and merits. An important part of the history of Ravenna, no summery of the army, or the history of it could be complete without at least mentioning these varied units
Name: I- The Sons of Mars
Motto: Cry Havoc
Details: The First unit of Optimates created, they have distinguished themselves many a time on the northern front, fighting both with and against Celt, Illyrian and German alike, when not in war, they are generally found acting as guardians for the Major shrines to the war God, and their Optimo is generally an ordained priest of Mars.
Name: II- The Hammers of Justitia
Motto: Justitia
Details: A unit of Optimates generally used for defensive purposes, they earned their name by, in the birth fo the republic, enforcing the laws of the Senate on many an unruly, and otherwise rebellious noble house. The Clubs are a symbol of the fate that met most of the leaders of these houses of treachery to the republic.
Name: III- The Capricorns
Motto: F-You
Details: A rather beloved motto has earned a fair amount of popularity for this particular unit, whom is devoted to the God Saturn, and so adopted a sign of the Zodiac (the Zodiac, and Astrology actually being quite important in the native religion of Ravenna) men whom were born under that sign are generally considered lucky in the Opitmates, but doubly so when serving in the Capricorn regiment itself
Name: IV- Solaria
Motto: For Glory and Honour!
Details: A Unit that hasnt turelly distinguished itself, all said, they have proven effective in all that they do, but that is what is expected of a regiment of Optimates in the first place; as of late however, they have been giving exceptional efforts to distinguish themselves, prompting some to comment that a name change to Exceptionae may be in order, for their sheer efforts
Name: V- The Cock's
Motto: Always the first man in, always the last man out
Details: The less said about these men the better. Lets just say they fancy a good time
(OOC; Im probably going to end up in hell for all that )Name: VI- Nau
Motto: Ship shape
Details: a speciality unit, even amongst the Optimates, these men specialize in performing Marine operations, and they carry them out with great ability, and courage
Name: VII- Victrix/ The Victors
Motto: Victoria!
Details: This is the most prestigious unit in all the republic, even more so then either the Capricorns...or the 5th regiment.... formed of the most skilled and honored, brave and strong men from the other regiments, they are an elite amongst elites, and are accorded double strength because of it; instead of the Normal 75 men, the Victrix regiment has 150 men of the finest order, and has served the republic in stunning fashion since their initial inception. Indeed, of the all the regiments that served in the most recent wars of the republic, inthe full thrust campaign into central Italy, it is, stunning that the Victrix regiment is one of only two regiments to sustain no losses for the entire camapign (the other was regiment 5.... The Cock's )
A stunnign display of the martial prowess of the republic, they are skilled and proud warriors of the republic.
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