This is what I sent back:
Stop Play
- Thread starter Rik Meleet
- Start date
I have no MSN account.
I don't have access to the chatroom when at work, but I am obviously online on CFC. I'll be keeping an eye on this. What do you need ?
BTW 20:00 GMT = 22:00 RMT (Rik Meleet Timezone) and fine by me.
I don't have access to the chatroom when at work, but I am obviously online on CFC. I'll be keeping an eye on this. What do you need ?
BTW 20:00 GMT = 22:00 RMT (Rik Meleet Timezone) and fine by me.
Rik Meleet said:
However, rikmeleet ED hotmail.com exists and is mine.
akots
Poet
@Rik: IIRC, I have told you everything what I might know on the matters in that chat. So, if you have the log of the Satruday's chat, may be just edit it a bit...
If something else is needed, please pm or e-mail
Just to summarize:
This might be violation of the UN rules:
0.2.2 - Allowed Team Membership
0.4.2 - Intentional Out-of-Game Espionage
1.6 Automatically - Map Trading
4.3 (Fairness Pledge)
It is completely unclear though what were the consequences and whether this is personal or team-dependent but we can have a hard time trying to continue the game IMHO, since the information obtained by violation of these rules has at least influenced if not directly drove the decisions made by the accused team. Apart from the possiblity it could have been used directly. First, and most important basics are our map information and our contact (or lack of contact) information. Second it troop position, budget, layout, and resource location information which basically makes the game obsolete. Especially considering it could have been used on a systematic basis for the duration of about 70 turns. Not mentioning a voting but it also falls into point 0.2.2
If something else is needed, please pm or e-mail
Just to summarize:
This might be violation of the UN rules:
0.2.2 - Allowed Team Membership
0.4.2 - Intentional Out-of-Game Espionage
1.6 Automatically - Map Trading
4.3 (Fairness Pledge)
It is completely unclear though what were the consequences and whether this is personal or team-dependent but we can have a hard time trying to continue the game IMHO, since the information obtained by violation of these rules has at least influenced if not directly drove the decisions made by the accused team. Apart from the possiblity it could have been used directly. First, and most important basics are our map information and our contact (or lack of contact) information. Second it troop position, budget, layout, and resource location information which basically makes the game obsolete. Especially considering it could have been used on a systematic basis for the duration of about 70 turns. Not mentioning a voting but it also falls into point 0.2.2
I now have MSN. RikMeleet.
Matrix and I had a long and intense chat through MSN about the case with FortyJ and Elucidus of CDG. We presented the case, the facts and our actions. They mostly listened, asked questions on details and unclarities and asked more information, which we were able to give.
They fortunately take it seriously.
We agreed upon that FortyJ and Elucidus will continue the investigation at CDG and perhpas C3B. We have to write up a chronological story, with facts.
Also we have to include what we want.
I will write the acccusation and the timeline, but I need your input on things I do not know. For instance; when was the email to akots send; from which email account and what did it say ?
If you have any help for us, please post here.
I already have:
I'm planning on starting to write the accusation and the timeline in 19 - 20 hours from now.
If you can help, please do. Please also post what you think our answer should be to FortyJ's request (repeated below).
Thanks in advance.
Rik
And oh yeah; the games will be on hold till about Wednesday. I don't know if FortyJ will post another message before or that our game will be on hold longer or when our case is going to be presented to C3B. But frankly that is not my main priority at the moment. I want a waterproof timeline and well founded accusation against the cheater. Help me.
They fortunately take it seriously.
We agreed upon that FortyJ and Elucidus will continue the investigation at CDG and perhpas C3B. We have to write up a chronological story, with facts.
Also we have to include what we want.
.FortyJ said:
I will write the acccusation and the timeline, but I need your input on things I do not know. For instance; when was the email to akots send; from which email account and what did it say ?
If you have any help for us, please post here.
I already have:
- The dates JokerDF and UKguy registered for CFC
- The dates of their posts
- Allthe IP's involved
- Screenshots of UKguy in our room
- screenshots which prove JokerDF and UKguy registered from the same IP-address
- screenshots proving the IP is located in Sao Paulo
- UKguy having a fake email-address listed
- proof that UKguy is not from the UK (ok assumption based on posting times, saying "country = Dublin", mixxing up Ireland with the UK).
- Proof UKguy voted in at least 15 polls (but I don't have the exact dates he voted)
I'm planning on starting to write the accusation and the timeline in 19 - 20 hours from now.
If you can help, please do. Please also post what you think our answer should be to FortyJ's request (repeated below).
.FortyJ said:
Thanks in advance.
Rik
And oh yeah; the games will be on hold till about Wednesday. I don't know if FortyJ will post another message before or that our game will be on hold longer or when our case is going to be presented to C3B. But frankly that is not my main priority at the moment. I want a waterproof timeline and well founded accusation against the cheater. Help me.
That looks like a fine list - maybe you could include that the date that JokerDF and UKguy registered were about the same days we met C3B, and that they were prepared to register on the forum of the civ that they met? And also how Joker quickly rose the ranks at C3B (or so I read in another thread here).
Emp.Napoleon
SUPER EMP!
Rik Meleet said:
We need your e mail adress thingy, not just your name. Like mine: emperornapoloen@hotmail.com
And can you post a log of the chat Rik?
My main email is witpaard ED zonnet.nl. But I prefer PM, as I can read PM's at work.
akots
Poet
@Rik: Obvioulsy we need to prepare a solid case. There are lots of speculations which all fit more or less well in the picture. But it can be a tedious task and long document. Apparently, we have to put everything in, at least what we can remember.
So, please, lets try to remember everything! This might help us to prepare the case for the game Admins!
From the very strict point of view, lots of cooperation from C3B site admins are is required. Including, for example, proof that JokerDF has accessed their forum with the same IP he used to access CFC. We can probably try to track the exact location of the IP down to the real name. It is paid service though and might be considered as direct violation of privacy which we obvioulsy do not want. It is a game after all.
I'll try to summarize the development of the events here like I see them but we need more input from the team including those who were especially close to the accused (may be DZ can remember something and sure Emp can dig out something in the chats or memory). Please all try to contribute!
So, please, lets try to remember everything! This might help us to prepare the case for the game Admins!
From the very strict point of view, lots of cooperation from C3B site admins are is required. Including, for example, proof that JokerDF has accessed their forum with the same IP he used to access CFC. We can probably try to track the exact location of the IP down to the real name. It is paid service though and might be considered as direct violation of privacy which we obvioulsy do not want. It is a game after all.
I'll try to summarize the development of the events here like I see them but we need more input from the team including those who were especially close to the accused (may be DZ can remember something and sure Emp can dig out something in the chats or memory). Please all try to contribute!
Emp.Napoleon
SUPER EMP!
akots said:
I will try to. Now I will also say that this needs to be well prepared, if we pull this off, we go to the finals! No war or anything.
akots
Poet
It might be possible but IMO this would be somewhat unfair. To us and to the citizens of C3B. However, there is little possibility the game can actually be continued regarding the circumstances. Unless of course, the accusations would be proven wrong.
Emp.Napoleon
SUPER EMP!
akots said:
Well, I would want C3B kicked out if Joker is the spy, since he was president and more importantly, turnplayer.
magnusmarcus
Prince
akots said:
Perhaps I overstep my bounds but I made up a small template of our complaint. Feel free to use it or discard it as it pleases you.
CFC's Complaint in the matter of Civilization Fanatics Center aka CFC v. Civ 3 Brazil aka C3B.
---------------------
COMPLAINT
Plaintiff, Civilization Fanatics Center ISDG, Commonly known as (CFC), complains of Defendant Civ 3 Brazil ISDG (C3B) and alleges as follows:
Nature of This Action
1. That on or about <Date of JokerDF's Acceptance into CFC Forum> a person or persons using the alias of "JokerDF" did conspire to and initiate activities intending to affect the results of the ISDG to the detriment of the Civilization Fanatics Center ISDG team and to the benefit of the Civ 3 Brazil ISDG team.
2. That a person or persons using the alias of "JokerDF" did directly affect the results of CFC internal elections and polls to the detriment of the Civilization Fanatics Center ISDG team and to the benefit of the Civ 3 Brazil ISDG team.
3. That a person or persons using the alias of "JokerDF" was successfully elected president of Civ 3 Brazil ISDG team due in part to gaining inside knowledge of the current state of CFC's game.
4. That a person or persons using the alias of "JokerDF" has negatively impacted the Civilization Fanatics Center ISDG team's ability to win the current ISDG game without extraordinary means.
Background Facts
5. A person created an account on the Civilization Fanatics Center under the guise of UKguy on <enter date of account creation>. and that this account was created shortly after April 1, 2004 which is when CFC and C3B came in contact with each other in the game
6. A person under the guise of UKguy did knowingly associate an invalid email address with his account with CFC on <enter date of application to ISDG>.
7. A person under the guise of UKguy did apply for access to the ISDG on <enter date of application to ISDG>. and was accepted..
8. A person under the guise of UKguy did vote 15 times on internal polls and elections. <Enter dates if available>
9. A person under the guise of UKguy did access Civilization Fanatics Center ISDG forum.
10. A person under the guise of UKguy is also registered under the guise of JokerDf using the same IP address and hostname.
11. The IP address used by the person under the guise of UKguy and JokerDF resolves to an ISP in Sao Paulo.
Prayer for Relief
WHEREFORE, having fully set forth its complaint, plaintiff prays for relief from this Court as follows:
12. The Civ 3 Brazil ISDG team should be ejected from the current ISDG game.
DATED this _____ day of October, 2004. The Civilization Fanatics Center ISDG team.
akots
Poet
The language is great and looks OK to me, just adding more detailed accusations would help a bit.
magnusmarcus
Prince
akots said:
Thanks, Unfortunately I don't have access to all the info....I figured Rik just might like something to work from.
akots
Poet
OK, I can come up with 2 dates: April 1 - Contact with C3B, June 11th or 12th - I received and anonymous e-mail about a spy in our forum. But I don't have it anymore, it has been goe with my hotmail account. 
Magnus: great.
I will however need to do a lot of work. I am going to chronoligically order all events in a timeline. That is not that difficult, as long as the information is complete.
I do however struggle with the wording of the acusations and I think I'll use MM's setup for that, although I think it isn't powerful enough. Anyone feels like writing a powerful accusation on High ranking official Joker of C3B for active spying and influencing our game etc. ?
I will however need to do a lot of work. I am going to chronoligically order all events in a timeline. That is not that difficult, as long as the information is complete.
I do however struggle with the wording of the acusations and I think I'll use MM's setup for that, although I think it isn't powerful enough. Anyone feels like writing a powerful accusation on High ranking official Joker of C3B for active spying and influencing our game etc. ?
I just remembered a weak point in our current case. Can we proof that C3B "Joker" = CFC "JokerDF" ??
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