Stop The Death Penalty

[SunTzu]

Every Justice system has flaws.
I agree on the death penalty, do you think Timothy Mcveigh should die or live in jail for the rest of his life?

The G'ment allows the death penalty but the jury decides wether or not to sentence the guilty person to death.
Don't blame to US G'ment on killing people, blame the people

If you take a life with the intent of taking the life and you were sane at the time of taking the life, your life should be taken also.

Pop Quiz: If someone murdered your mother or father or brother or someone else close to you, would you want to see that person die?
If you say no, there's something wrong with you, everyone would want to see the person die, i myself, if someone murdered my mom and weren't sentenced to death i would think about trying to kill them myself.....

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[scorch]

NOOOOOOOOOO!

I JUST wrote a big long thing on this,
and i accidently closed the window...

opps,

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[Mongol Horde]

Awww RedWolf, this topic was dying and then you went and opened up another can of worms.

Quoted by SunTzu
do you think Timothy Mcveigh should die or live in jail for the rest of his life?

Not my country but if it were I would see him in jail for the rest of his natural life. I have my morals and I will stick to them.

Quoted by SunTzu
If someone murdered your mother or father or brother or someone else close to you, would you want to see that person die?

Of course I would want to see that person die but I would be a mere individual. The state has to set a better example.

 

[Zeus]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2:
Zues

ARGGGHHHHH, it's spelled ZEUS!!

Yeah, I know you were kidding.

I totally agree, if you take a life, then your life should be taken, it's very simple, and I don't see how anyone can logically ague with that (of course that is why they argue illogically

).

 

[RedWolf]

Originally posted by SunTzu:
Pop Quiz: If someone murdered your mother or father or brother or someone else close to you, would you want to see that person die?
If you say no, there's something wrong with you, everyone would want to see the person die, i myself, if someone murdered my mom and weren't sentenced to death i would think about trying to kill them myself.....

Of course i would WANT to see them die. But just because i WANT something in a moment of emotion does not make it RIGHT or justified.

Besides I would want to see the RIGHT person die and not some poor bastard that the cops dragged in and pinned it on because they can't find anybody else. Don't tell me it doesn't happen because it damn well DOES.

"Guilty is just a label"


[This message has been edited by RedWolf (edited May 29, 2001).]

 

[BorderPatrol]

The main delima with supporting the death penalty is the fact that you are killing someone. No matter how much you shout "Eye for an Eye!" or say that "justice must be served" doesn't change that fact. What makes the life you are killing of less value than the life that that person killed? No matter what this person has done does not change the fact that it is a life.

Are some lives made unequally? No. You might say that it's what they did what their life that matters and they killed therefore I shall kill them. But before you condemn this person, ask yourself this question. Is your own life made more meaningful by the killing of this life? If you had walked in their life from birth what would your life be like? To justify killing this person you should try to fully understand that person. If you do not you have no compassion.

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[FearlessLeader2]

BP-
When someone kills another human being for their own gain, they are choosing to abandon their species. In the wild, animals that do this are called rogues. In human society, we do not kill each other. Those that choose to ignore this, choose to ignore their own humanity. Why then, should we acknowledge it? IF they want out of the human race, by all means, let them go. But in leaving, they lose the protection due the rest of us. At that point, it becomes a matter of survival for humanity, to exterminate these outcasts, lest they kill again. Prisons are not escape-proof. Imprisonment is not a guarantee against recidivism. Recidivism of murder is absolutely unacceptable. No course that stops it is unacceptable.

 

[damunzy]

Completely agree with you on this FL2.
Unfortunately is brings up, why do animals do it in the wild? From the different cable learning channels I have learnt

that animals are not just killing the individual, but also stopping that individual's family line. So should we also punish the children of the person put to death? If we are putting the murderer to death to protect society then maybe we should be logical and take it all the way instead of doing a half-assed job.
Just a question, I couldn't see actually doing this.

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[FearlessLeader2]

I myself am deeply uncomfortable with the concept of visiting the sins of the father upon the son. Let a man's debts die with him.

 

[damunzy]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2:
I myself am deeply uncomfortable with the concept of visiting the sins of the father upon the son. Let a man's debts die with him.

I too am very uncomfortable with the idea, and in no way support it, but the idea is there and I think it deserves some talk.

 

[Mongol Horde]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2:
I myself am deeply uncomfortable with the concept of visiting the sins of the father upon the son. Let a man's debts die with him.

Yet in an earlier post:

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2:
Well gee whiz, my heart is just breaking for the family of the raving psycho. Maybe if they had done a better job of preparing him for entering society, he wouldn't have been a twisted murdering scumbag. I feel no pity for the murderer, or for his family. Innocent blood is on their hands, let the blood of the guilty wash it clean.

Do I smell a whiff of contradiction FL2?

 

[RedWolf]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2:

In the wild, animals that do this are called rogues. In human society, we do not kill each other. Those that choose to ignore this, choose to ignore their own humanity. Why then, should we acknowledge it? IF they want out of the human race, by all means, let them go. But in leaving, they lose the protection due the rest of us. At that point, it becomes a matter of survival for humanity, to exterminate these outcasts, lest they kill again.

First off.. we are NOT animals. We have grown above the simplistic "eat, sleep, reproduce" mentality of animals. This why we take care of our sick, our poor, and out down trodden.

Second.. you cling so closely to this notion that anybody that kills a humna being deserves to die themselves. So what do you think of a government that kills a person that has been wrongly convicted? You say it's not murder and that's it's "an execution" but in the end it's the SAME DAMN THING. An innocent is still dead regardless of the reason. The result is no better than what the criminal did in the first place.

 

[Håkan Eriksson]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2:
What is gained by DP is respect for the law.

You don't get more respect for the law just becouse you have death penlaty! Criminals do not respect the law just becouse they might get killed.

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[BorderPatrol]

FL2 you replied to my post but you did not address the whole point of it at all which was that to get to know the person you are killing to see if you still think their life isn't worth anything.

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[FearlessLeader2]

BorderPatrol-- I don't want to know someone with so little self-control that they killed someone else without sufficient provocation to be found not guilty by reason of self-defense or justifiable homicide.

MongolHorde-- No contradiction. I do not support extending the DP to the criminal's family. On the other hand, I also do not consider their feelings in the matter germaine to the question of passing sentence upon the guilty. The guilty has taken a loved one from the family of the victim, the state is taking a loved one from the guilty's family. In that I find a brutal, but neccessary, symmetry.

RedWolf-- As I have gone to some pains to state, if a sufficient burden of proof were established for capital cases, there would be no innocent men executed.

Hakon-- Criminals by definition do not respect the law. There still must be punishment for the guilty, else why have laws? The point of stern punishment for violation, is to inspire respect for law in those who are not yet criminals.

 

[Magnus]

Can anyone show evidence that the death penalty reduces violent crime? A good start would be to look at a community before and after capital punishment was introduced.

 

[RedWolf]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2:
RedWolf-- As I have gone to some pains to state, if a sufficient burden of proof were established for capital cases, there would be no innocent men executed.

It is impossible. You can never ever be 100% sure that a person is guilty. Until we invent "mind reading machines" it just can't be done.

 

[Håkan Eriksson]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2:
Hakon-- Criminals by definition do not respect the law. There still must be punishment for the guilty, else why have laws? The point of stern punishment for violation, is to inspire respect for law in those who are not yet criminals.

Why are you writing to Håkon? I guess it must be to him since you write Hakon.

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[penvzila]

So, FearlessLeader, according to you, all citizens are criminals waiting to happen, so why dont we prevent all murders/rapes/robberies by executing everyone who has ever been arrested?

The death penalty inspires nothing but loathing for the justice system. It's a ****ed up example of a ****ed up system. We had it right at first, but it's been downhill ever since.

 

[Andu Indorin]

Originally posted by Magnus:
Can anyone show evidence that the death penalty reduces violent crime? A good start would be to look at a community before and after capital punishment was introduced.

Virtually all social scientific studies in the U.S. suggest that the death penalty has no effect on deterring violent crime. This argument has been extensively used by opponents of the death penalty as a reason to end this practice as inhumane. (For myself, my views on the issue are rather Durkheimian; while clearly the death penalty is overused in the United States, they are cases where this punishment serves an important social function, and therefore should not be entirely done away with.)