Stopping the Mohawk Warrior Rush

[Amm]

not really. you drop a citadel, I'll go around. you aren't protected on all sides by a single citadel.

or ranged kill your units, slowing upgrading to logistics/range/indirect fire.

then wander in a horse and pillage the citadel..


As per the immortals - the power is in the GA and volume. They're cheaper than swords, and are more effective in large groups due to no strat resource needed. (I've built 10+ immortals before, just for the upgrade benefit) Along the way, I generally also try to grab the HE if I've got decent production. toss in some archers/cats for ranged strength, and the immortals are a very decent blocker.

If I do it, it's always an honour start.

8 +
10% (GA)
10% (discipline)
20% (GG)
10-30% (flanks)
+terrain bonus

leaves you with 8+70% (or 85% if HE is used) = 13.6+terrain bonus on attack or fortification+terrain on defence.

upgrade to pikes and they're now at 17-18.5 + terrain/etc. 27ish turns (or more if lots of fighting) is a very sweet push. I tend not to start the fight with less than 4-5 immortals, which can be very cheap to buy. (now that archers are extra cheap, you can add those as well)

sure, swords and LSs have higher base CS, but with the right tactics, swarms of Immortals (and properly flanked front line units) are hard to kill due to the double healing. Not to mention 3 move during a GA. (hunting down wounded units is good)

Just to clarify, what is LS, CS, GA and GG?
I guess LS = LSM and CS would be stats? But the other two are

 

[MadDjinn]

Just to clarify, what is LS, CS, GA and GG?
I guess LS = LSM and CS would be stats? But the other two are

In the prior posts context:

GG = Great General
GA = Golden Age
LS = Longswords
CS = Combat Strength

 

[Silverfuturist]

A lot of people here have answered the question. Yesterday I fought against wave after wave of mohawks (probably 8 in total, with 3 of them later being longswords) and horseman. He eventually quit after I was killing them off faster when I got crossbowman. Forget longsword or anything else and focus on crossbowmen. It is a killer against them.

Building walls and the great wall is a bonus if you ask me.

Crossbows are killer against them. The problem is the rush that comes in less than 40 moves (on quick setting) giving you little time to prepare.

I forgot to meantion a team game (2vs2)... they found El Dorado, both spammed warriors, teammate gifted his warriors to Iriquois, gave gold to Iriquois for upgrades... 10 Mohawks showed up faster than I had ever seen.

 

[MadDjinn]

Crossbows are killer against them. The problem is the rush that comes in less than 40 moves (on quick setting) giving you little time to prepare.

I forgot to meantion a team game (2vs2)... they found El Dorado, both spammed warriors, teammate gifted his warriors to Iriquois, gave gold to Iriquois for upgrades... 10 Mohawks showed up faster than I had ever seen.

2v2 is a different beast though.

there's some very cheap things you can do there.

(try having an Aztec player hand over Jags to a Mohawk spam. I haven't done it, but on paper that's a little more powerful than before)

 

[Silverfuturist]

2v2 is a different beast though.

there's some very cheap things you can do there.

(try having an Aztec player hand over Jags to a Mohawk spam. I haven't done it, but on paper that's a little more powerful than before)

Brillaint but evil! That gives me ideas... Persia spamming immortals and gifting to Germany, who upgrades Landsknights (sp) for a tiny amount of gold. China gifting Cho-Ko-Nus to Persia, who can move then fire twice in a golden age. If the archer had the fire twice promotion, was upgraded to a Cho-Ko-Nu, could Persia then fire them 3 times in a GA?

 

[Tabarnak]

If the archer had the fire twice promotion, was upgraded to a Cho-Ko-Nu, could Persia then fire them 3 times in a GA?

Good question...

 

[Silverfuturist]

repeat post

 

[Silverfuturist]

Here is some cheeze for ya'll... posting wins like this is kind of lame, but hey, based on the # of hours I play this game, I have already gone way past lame. Plus, most of the posting by far on this forum deals with singleplayer... yawn.

Great Plains map... builds limited to warriors for upgrade, or mohawks, except for a monument in each city and initial scouts. My second city is from Liberty.

Turn 28... it appears France and Germany had a DoW cuz of a worker steal or attempted worker steal... first capital in under 30 turns:


Turn 55... 15 mohawks... and 2 more almost finished. England disconnects
View attachment 301851

Turn 58 its over:
View attachment 301850

 

[Tabarnak]

Great plains is a great map for massive armies set-up. No lakes and few mountains help. Obviously, opponents should have built a lot of archers...

 

[tommynt]

Last rnd duel I poped Irqu my oponent wasnt a top3 mp but a decent guy.

Iroqu was so fast ... U save yourself 4-5 turns for getting Iron + 2-3 turns moving cause of the bonus.
If lands allowys to buy enough upgrades I think its pretty much unstopable - and even if opponent can stop he should be pushed back enough to loose later (sure every noob can camp in cap with few archers and spaming more units).

Still the point is that its not the Mohawk itself but having the unit so fast and as said its also not even stoping it but stoping it in a way which doesnt let u loose later on.

I think I got a (new) optimised strat for duels which allows a saver win as lib sword rush (which just can be countered very easy be some1 doing same but moving units faster) and it also counter Mowak rush - just not sharing for the Moment.

 

[MasterMishi]

cap: mon, scout, war, spears.....a settler if safe, spears....or sword

2nd/ 3rd city: spears

beeline iron, happy, civil, chiv or steel, gun

liberty settler, worker

might work if no iron

MM

 

[tommynt]

this plan sounds a lot like "camping in cap" ....yeah wont loose in 40 turns ...

 

[MasterMishi]

my strat was intented to go on the offensive with the horde of spears and set your opponent back, or at least meet the enemy half way and free your land to be improved and set up a unit stalemate untill you can get medieval units out.

i havent tested against iro, but it works in the noob games, you often crush 2 of the 3 enemy on a tiny map, and usually the 3rd has a better amry prepared.

the only way to stop iro would be to spam an earlier unit and kill them before iron/ force stalemate or to have a strong defence when they show up, iron rush yourself surely?

 

[Kyp Durron]

Spears suck.

 

[MasterMishi]

what else you going to build if you have no iron, archers? horse?

 

[Silverfuturist]

DISCLAIMER: I admit lame wins like this are... lame

Lame Mohawk cheeze rush refined:
1. Build scout 1st to get max gold from CS and ruins. Monument = only building entire game
2. Go right for free settler policy to get 2 cities pumping out warriors. Don't build settlers/workers
3. Xtra gold from taking cities, barb camps, then the golden age from Liberty = only a few mohawks need be built, build mostly warriors

Turn 32: Aztec capital taken (it was close to my capital)
Turn 42: Russia capital taken (close also)
Turn 58: 16 mohawks + spear (lousy ruin upgrade) + GG

Turn 60: France had built swords, but limited by iron:


This method allows you to play civ in a short period of time... although you will feel the need to take a shower after each game...

 

[uigaw423]

what else you going to build if you have no iron, archers? horse?

Mishi, I have actually found on both ends of a Mohawk rush that horses are an excellent solution.

 

[Silverfuturist]

Mishi, I have actually found on both ends of a Mohawk rush that horses are an excellent solution.

I played an FFA where the Mongols went quickly for Horseback riding... at first I thought it was weak, but with the extra move they smashed the Mohawks coming at them... and when he got his Khan it worked even better. However, maybe it was the map that favored him.

 

[uigaw423]

I played an FFA where the Mongols went quickly for Horseback riding... at first I thought it was weak, but with the extra move they smashed the Mohawks coming at them... and when he got his Khan it worked even better. However, maybe it was the map that favored him.

Well, it also wouldn't work if you had no horse resources, but why state obviousness. All things in civ are relative to situation. I had a game yesterday where I went straight honor, isolated myself by taking out my 2 neighbors to the 1 choke point between me and surviving civs. It worked well because I was Aztecs and was able to barb farm after to keep up culturally. Will this always work, no, Civ is situational if you don't play the same map all the time (skirmish, east west, north south, four corners). Yes if you play a map like that the game is the same everytime, that is not fun in my opinion.

 

[MasterMishi]

unless you tech straight to horse... iron then horseback then build horses...
does this not make it a bit late to defend the rush?