Strategy discussion

[The Q-Meister]

Greece

Background

The Cradle of Western Civilization. Playing as Greece you inherit a rich history as its very name conjures up images of both great philosophers (Socrates, Plato, Aristotle) as well as fierce warriors (Alexander, Leonidas). Their unique power allows you to grow this legacy even further if you wish to do so. While, if barbarians (and aren't all non-Greeks barbarians?) should approach and threaten a Greek city and demand you surrender your arms to them, then the words of the Spartans at Thermoplyae might be a suitable response: "Come and take them!"

But for now, let us focus on the legacy of Greece as a center of learning and knowledge. Its historical victory calls on you to make the country once again a beacon of philosophy, culture, and knowledge and to allow the Greek spirit and curiosity to re-emerge once more by scanning the oceans and seas of the unknown world around us. While the barbarians growl and bark over this and that piece of land, let the Greeks show that real men do not always win battles by the sword, but also, by the mind.

Winning the Historical Victory

Playing on Monarch level, I founded Athens on the spot. Immediately started to build my 1st wonder (The Colossus) while the warriors stayed put defending the city and the phalanxes eventually did so after searching a bit. In my games as Greece, the Romans declare war almost immediately and will send an army via the sea shortly.

When the barbs, er, Romans came as expected , my Greek forces, remembering their proud legacy, defended the city bravely and despite some pillaging, the army of Alexander was able to repel what was left of the Roman horde. Our great historidan Herodotus was happily willing to write a new history based on these events entitled "The Roman Wars"

I first beelined for Priesthood to be able to build the Oracle. After discovering PH, I immediately switched from the Colossus to Oracle as I suspected that that may be a wonder many civs would be going after and I was especially concerned about the older civs that came before me. Fortunately, Zeus was with us! The Gods looked favourably on us as we showed the world that Athens, the center of the universe, was able to build 3 magnificient wonders: The Oracle, the Colossus and The Parthenon.

After building the 3 wonders, I then thought it best to expand. I settled into Northern Greece to pick up the bronze and then settled Sparta. (Byzantium I settled later on but this might be a better city to build as your 2nd or 3rd option)

I traded with other civilizations while I focused our technology tree on gaining the 3 technologies our citizens were demanding: Philosophy, Drama and Literature. If the player is focused on these techs and trades with other civs for techs appropriately, this should not be a problem to acquire.

Our citizens thirst and curiosity about the world did not end with Philosophy however. Apparently, the access to new fountains of knowledge opened their eyes and their minds to the possibilities of new worlds around us...yet to be discovered. Once again, I set the appropriate tech course, built 6 caravels (just in case...I was being perhaps overly cautious here, but you do want to build more than 1 just in case a country declares war or a freak barbarian attack occurs) and the Greeks once again led the world in yet another field: that of discovery.

In the meantime, while your ships are sailing, it might be a good time to expand some more and build an army..just in case a jealous barbarian tribe should come and try to steal some of your hard-earned and well-deserved glory.

Foreign Policy

On the foreign policy front, war with Rome is inevitable at the beginning. My strategy was withstanding the early attack and make peace afterwards. Always protect your workers! The barbarians can be a nuisance but after playing as Persia, they hardly seem like a major threat. Try to keep your phalanxes for as long as possible, they do come in handy. The Egyptians may declare war but my experience has been that they rarely are serious about it. The Persians are too busy to get anywhere close to Greece and I would recommend trying to be on good terms with them.

When the Euro civs spawn, it is a good idea to be friendly with as many as you can, adopt their religion (probably Christianity) or if there is more than 1, adopt the majority. I find that keeping Russia and Germany happy is of primary importance. Spain may declare war on you cause....well, it's Spain, just defend your water resources and you should be all right. Remember to keep those phalanxes (or upgrade to Pikemen) in case the Conquistadors should show up.

The most important factor is trading techs; as Greece you will undoubtedly acquire techs many other civs do not have yet, trade your techs wisely and accordingly to your goals.



Conclusion

Fortunately, the Greek historical victory is one of the more easier ones in the game. The Greek people come prepared with a natural thirst for knowledge and the large amount of Great People the nation is capable of producing speaks volumes. This is probably a good civ for peaceful players or those attempting to complete their first historical victory. With a couple tries as Greece, the armies of Alexander will defend your land successfully and the legacy of your people will be the envy of the barbarian world!

 

[subanark]

Here is a simple guide for getting a Myan historic victory:

Goals:
1. Research Calender by 600AD
2. Build Temple of Kukulakan by 900AD
3. Never lose a city until 1745AD

Situation Overview:
You start with 2 settlers, 3 warriors, a good chunk of gold, and will receive 3 workers 2 turns later. Your power greatly reduces the tech cost until you leave the Middle ages (don't get techs in the Resonance period until you have all the middle age techs you want). You don't have much room to move around in, this does however make defending from land based attacks easier. You will have a good long period of peace to build up your defenses. Around 700(?)AD Barbarians will attack from the North. They will be initially Dog Soldiers (4 power +100% vs melee) but will also add in Jaguar (5 power +10% city attack, starts with woodsman I, can move though jungle). These will usually come in groups of 3. The Incan will arrive at 1150AD in the western side of South America. They are very weak and (at least in my games) ask to be your vassal when they meet you. A weak independent city will form just north of the cotton in south America; the Incan will be just below them. Aztecs will arrive at 1200AD. All units, culture and cities north of the two mountians and stone resource in Central America will be converted to them (make sure you have nothing in their area when that year hits). They will start with a moderate army of Jaguars and some archers along with 2 settlers (and get some workers later). Upon meeting with the Europeans or Africans your cities will fall under plague for a while. You will also receive up to 2 other plagues in this time frame. In the 1500s many European powers will declare war on you and a group of units (2 knights, 3 spearman?, and a catapult) from one of the european powers will appear somewhere in south or central America (this happens even if they don't have astronomy). World congress may also form; if another civ is close to you they may ask congress for one of your cities. America civ is born in 1733, 4 turns before you win.

Strategy:
Found one city where you start, and another west on the stone. Although the northern area looks better, that will be Aztec territory and you will lose that city to them if you found it north of the 2 mountains there. Build up your defenses with archers to fend off the barbs to the north (position your units just outside the workable tiles and build forts there). Just make sure you get calendar by 600AD, and the wonder by 900AD. Once you got those two done you will start a golden age allowing you to change your civics without anarchy (you should have caste system and Bureaucracy by then, and Monarchy by the end of the golden age) and avoid the stability hit. Get Feudalism to build longbow men. By 1200AD you want a sizable army (9 long bow men should be enough) to destroy the Aztec as soon as they appear. Make sure that at 1200AD none of your units are north of those two mountains. When the Aztec arrive all of your culture will be theirs and if you don't destroy, your second city will lose a good chunk of tiles and will have almost no production. Taking the culture back will take a long time, and they will probably declare war on you anyways. When you have time, build a city in the northern part of south America to the right of the gold. Have a ship ready to transport units between the cities since your archers and longbow men can't go though the jungles. Pay Europe a visit once you get the tech. Once you do you will get the plague, but it is better to get it now than when they invade in the 1500s. Keep a good defense when they do invade and ask for peace asap. Go for Musketeers and hold out until 1733.

Worker orders:
Have the workers improve the small amount of terrain they can. When your workers don't have anything left to do create forts at the 3 choke points just north of your second city's workable tiles. When Calendar is done to build a plantation on the dyes by your main city. Do the same for your second city when you get bronze working. After that build at least 1 fort in the jungle south of your main city to allow ships to sail though (the jungle prevents many of your military units from going though). Also build a road into South American to allow settlers and workers to get there faster.

Build orders:
In your main city, build a barracks then 3 archers. After that use your judgment.
In your second city, build a monument, barracks, then archers. Build the Temple of Kukulakan so finishes by 900AD (might as well delay it as long as possible). After that use your judgment.

Research order:
Sailing (trade with your other city), Archery (archers), Math (pre-req), Calendar (plantation, goal), Code of laws (Wonder goal), Bronze Working (chopping), Civil Service (Bureaucracy), Monarchy (pre-req), Feudalism (Longbow men), ...

 

[LeeT911]

I managed to complete the UHV for Egypt on my second try. I found it pretty simple actually. There are some good pointers in this thread already, but if some people are having trouble reaching the culture goals, my trick is to use caste system.

Get the stone hooked up early, and prioritize getting the Stonehenge, which gives access to all labour civics. In my game (on Monarch), I built it before the Pyramids, but it wasn't really necessary that early. If you're missing a few culture points for 500, switch to caste system a few turns in advance and run an artist. On my attempt, I was going to be 3 culture points short of the first goal! Good thing I had the Stonehenge.

Once you pass the first culture goal, let your capital grow and run a couple more artists so that you can pop a Great Artist, thereby guaranteeing you the second goal. Once I got the Great Artist, I went back to slavery so I could whip the remaining wonders and some spears/axes to stem the tide of Camel Archers and Impis coming from the west.

 

[Greeneyedzombie]

For those playing with the greeks, how oftend does it happen that the oracle has been build when you start?
I started several times with the greeks, but when I start the indians have already build it. It seems to be impossible to win with the greeks.

 

[fearuin]

I haven't played with the greeks on BtS, but in the earlier versions it happened me only twice, and both of the it had been built by egyptians. However, I can imagine that indians have a chance to do it.

On that earlier versions, greek UHV was for long the easiest, but maybe Rhye has tighten things a bit.

As long as I know, with greeks it's very important to time when and where to build wonders. A rush on turkey early on it's really helpful. Have you tried that? Greek UHV leads to a builder strategy, so an early focus on war may seem to be counterintuitive, but at least to me it has been very helpful. Even if you don't win by UHV, you may have a chance with a culture victory (or even religious, in BtS, haven't tried this one). Your only threats are arabian and turks, but for the time these ones spawn, you may be holding an empire that ranges from Yugoslavia to Persia, so even if you give the cities they ask, it won't be a great loss.

 

[LeeT911]

I tried a few times for the Greek UHV before I got it, and it never happened that the Oracle was already built. However, I did have to beeline Masonry and Priesthood so I could get the Marble hooked up and start the Oracle early.

 

[Greeneyedzombie]

I haven't played with the greeks on BtS, but in the earlier versions it happened me only twice, and both of the it had been built by egyptians. However, I can imagine that indians have a chance to do it.

On that earlier versions, greek UHV was for long the easiest, but maybe Rhye has tighten things a bit.

As long as I know, with greeks it's very important to time when and where to build wonders. A rush on turkey early on it's really helpful. Have you tried that? Greek UHV leads to a builder strategy, so an early focus on war may seem to be counterintuitive, but at least to me it has been very helpful. Even if you don't win by UHV, you may have a chance with a culture victory (or even religious, in BtS, haven't tried this one). Your only threats are arabian and turks, but for the time these ones spawn, you may be holding an empire that ranges from Yugoslavia to Persia, so even if you give the cities they ask, it won't be a great loss.

Currently going for a cultural victory. Conquered rome. Mercanaries rock. And the celts took the rest.
Idia already build the oracle again. But with al these GA I'm getting, I think it is to easy.

 

[fearuin]

Getting Rome is a hit if you go for culture, specially if Caesar has founded Christianity (what happens from time to time). Another hit is to get Jerusalem, but if you do this, you'll put your feet on war to never give it up (because Egyptians, Babilonian, Persian and Arabian want Jerusalem for them).

 

[Greeneyedzombie]

Getting Rome is a hit if you go for culture, specially if Caesar has founded Christianity (what happens from time to time). Another hit is to get Jerusalem, but if you do this, you'll put your feet on war to never give it up (because Egyptians, Babilonian, Persian and Arabian want Jerusalem for them).

What you mean is a hit?
Rome didn't found anything. The romans are dead. They suicided on my phalanxes fortified on hills.. I build a galey and hired some mercenarys and landed in rome. The suicided some more units to try to get it back. And those lovely celts did the rest. I have rome, byzantium and the other city the romans founded between rome and athens. Build the great wall and got allmost all of the ancient wonders. I have jewish religion and founded the christian.

 

[fearuin]

What you mean is a hit?

I mean that it's a important achievement. Rome usually builds all her wonders in her capital, so it's a good spot to get for a culture victory.

I have jewish religion and founded the christian.

Probably, if you didn't attack Rome, Caesar would have goaled to found Christianity. Having Rome as christian holy city makes things a lot easier (because it has a HUGE spreading rate).

 

[NickSD]

Here is a simple guide for getting a Myan historic victory:

Goals:
1. Research Calender by 600AD
2. Build Temple of Kukulakan by 900AD
3. Never lose a city until 1745AD

Situation Overview:
You start with 2 settlers, 3 warriors, a good chunk of gold, and will receive 3 workers 2 turns later. Your power greatly reduces the tech cost until you leave the Middle ages (don't get techs in the Resonance period until you have all the middle age techs you want). You don't have much room to move around in, this does however make defending from land based attacks easier. You will have a good long period of peace to build up your defenses. Around 700(?)AD Barbarians will attack from the North. They will be initially Dog Soldiers (4 power +100% vs melee) but will also add in Jaguar (5 power +10% city attack, starts with woodsman I, can move though jungle). These will usually come in groups of 3. The Incan will arrive at 1150AD in the western side of South America. They are very weak and (at least in my games) ask to be your vassal when they meet you. A weak independent city will form just north of the cotton in south America; the Incan will be just below them. Aztecs will arrive at 1200AD. All units, culture and cities north of the two mountians and stone resource in Central America will be converted to them (make sure you have nothing in their area when that year hits). They will start with a moderate army of Jaguars and some archers along with 2 settlers (and get some workers later). Upon meeting with the Europeans or Africans your cities will fall under plague for a while. You will also receive up to 2 other plagues in this time frame. In the 1500s many European powers will declare war on you and a group of units (2 knights, 3 spearman?, and a catapult) from one of the european powers will appear somewhere in south or central America (this happens even if they don't have astronomy). World congress may also form; if another civ is close to you they may ask congress for one of your cities. America civ is born in 1733, 4 turns before you win.

Strategy:
Found one city where you start, and another west on the stone. Although the northern area looks better, that will be Aztec territory and you will lose that city to them if you found it north of the 2 mountains there. Build up your defenses with archers to fend off the barbs to the north (position your units just outside the workable tiles and build forts there). Just make sure you get calendar by 600AD, and the wonder by 900AD. Once you got those two done you will start a golden age allowing you to change your civics without anarchy (you should have caste system and Bureaucracy by then, and Monarchy by the end of the golden age) and avoid the stability hit. Get Feudalism to build longbow men. By 1200AD you want a sizable army (9 long bow men should be enough) to destroy the Aztec as soon as they appear. Make sure that at 1200AD none of your units are north of those two mountains. When the Aztec arrive all of your culture will be theirs and if you don't destroy, your second city will lose a good chunk of tiles and will have almost no production. Taking the culture back will take a long time, and they will probably declare war on you anyways. When you have time, build a city in the northern part of south America to the right of the gold. Have a ship ready to transport units between the cities since your archers and longbow men can't go though the jungles. Pay Europe a visit once you get the tech. Once you do you will get the plague, but it is better to get it now than when they invade in the 1500s. Keep a good defense when they do invade and ask for peace asap. Go for Musketeers and hold out until 1733.

Worker orders:
Have the workers improve the small amount of terrain they can. When your workers don't have anything left to do create forts at the 3 choke points just north of your second city's workable tiles. When Calendar is done to build a plantation on the dyes by your main city. Do the same for your second city when you get bronze working. After that build at least 1 fort in the jungle south of your main city to allow ships to sail though (the jungle prevents many of your military units from going though). Also build a road into South American to allow settlers and workers to get there faster.

Build orders:
In your main city, build a barracks then 3 archers. After that use your judgment.
In your second city, build a monument, barracks, then archers. Build the Temple of Kukulakan so finishes by 900AD (might as well delay it as long as possible). After that use your judgment.

Research order:
Sailing (trade with your other city), Archery (archers), Math (pre-req), Calendar (plantation, goal), Code of laws (Wonder goal), Bronze Working (chopping), Civil Service (Bureaucracy), Monarchy (pre-req), Feudalism (Longbow men), ...

Subanark, this was excellent!
thanks to you, I just earned my first-ever BTS historical victory! YAY!

can you paste this into the wiki or should I?

 

[Mxzs]

I managed to complete the UHV for Egypt on my second try. I found it pretty simple actually. There are some good pointers in this thread already, but if some people are having trouble reaching the culture goals, my trick is to use caste system.

Get the stone hooked up early, and prioritize getting the Stonehenge, which gives access to all labour civics. In my game (on Monarch), I built it before the Pyramids, but it wasn't really necessary that early. If you're missing a few culture points for 500, switch to caste system a few turns in advance and run an artist. On my attempt, I was going to be 3 culture points short of the first goal! Good thing I had the Stonehenge.

Once you pass the first culture goal, let your capital grow and run a couple more artists so that you can pop a Great Artist, thereby guaranteeing you the second goal. Once I got the Great Artist, I went back to slavery so I could whip the remaining wonders and some spears/axes to stem the tide of Camel Archers and Impis coming from the west.

Thanks for the tip about Caste System. It helped me finally win a UHV on Monarch level.

And just in time, too, because just a few turns later (I can't resist hitting the "one ... more ... turn" button at the end) a plague wiped out all my units as dozens of Barbarians and Impis simultaneously swarmed in from the south and west. I've never seen a civilization sink so quickly as my Egyptian empire did under that one-two punch.

 

[Corm]

Khmer UHV taken from the Khmer thread. There is another strategy I used in that thread too but its not as successful as this one which gets you a higher finishing score.

Ok 2nd Spoiler. A different path. Tried this one 3 times now and although I never took 2 of those goes to the 30% spread required it was definitely going to be doable. Anyway see below if your interested.

Spoiler :

Research Path: Aesthetics, Sailing, Calender, Philosophy, Alphabet, Currency, Exploration, Optics, anything you like after that.

Initial moves: Found Angkor, found Hanoi, Move Ballista Elephants to take Pagan then Patna (Religious capital).

Build order: Forge in Hanoi and Angkor then Baray then Hanoi buidls Shawadaya Paya and Angkor builds library then eventually Wat Prishnouk. Pagan builds Baray then Harbour then granary. Patna builds baray then granary then courthouse. After these build options you have free reign in all cities.

Workers: Improve whatever you can bringing all food and health resources on line as soon as you research calender.

Great People strategy: Make 1 Artist specialist in Angkor when it hits pop 3, 2 when it hits pop 4 and the Bananas are online. Hanoi should have 1 Artists Specialist then 2 when Angkor is close to half way to popping the 2nd Great Artist it should be moved up to 2 specialists. When Angkor has created 2 GA's Hanoi should have finished the Paya and can be used to pop the 3 GA whilst Angkor completes the Wat Prishnouk.

Civics: Hed Rule, Casts System and Organised Religion.

Points to consider: War with indpendants shouldn't be started until you can capture at least two workers building roads above Hanoi (turn 3 or 4) so that you have extra workers that are essential to getting all the Calender based improvements online to hit your pop 10 goals. Patna should max food, Pagan will require mirco management to hit pop 10 by 1430. Mines should always be built in Jungle hills, Windmills on clear hills except the hill to the south east of Angkor which should have a mine and the copper above Hanoi (obviously).

After you have hit goals 1 & 2 you should concentrate on spreading your religion via caravels with missionaries. First target should be Aztecs and Incas. If you get conquerors gift the units or use them in a friendly manner to support your new pals the Aztecs and Incas. Dont take cities from them its not worth it. Spread your religion to them as fast as possible then concentrate on other friendly Civs colonies. Feel free to switch civics to slavery after hitting goals 1 & 2 and be sure to use the whip to get your heavily growing cities tooled up.

 

[Ryry]

If you are new to Rhye's (which I am), I think Japan is a good UHV to try first. You don't have to watch your back, as their are no Barbarians to worry about (you start on a small island), and no Civs will threaten the homeland for quite a while (again, island!), and if you can get the first UHV condition met you are pretty much sure to get the next two.

You need to be the most powerful Civ in 1500, if you can swing that you will surely meet #2, no foreign culture on the main island by 1700 with out trying. The last one can be a little tricky cause it takes so long to get to, and you might have over extended back trying to meet the first goal: never lose a city by 1850.

NOTE: I lost cities to instability (they became independent), but no other Civ conquered them, and I still got the UHV. (I lost 2 cities. One I recaptured before 1850, one I did not and it was still independent in 1850). I assume that it does not count as a loss as long as they are not taken by another civ.

OK. So the main thing is to be the most powerful Civ in 1500. How to do that? Well, conquer the other most powerful civ from way back then: China.

Basically you need to follow these strategies:
1) Expand on the Asian mainland by conquering China
2) Build up the home islands (really just one island on this map)
3) Prepare for the Mongols to spawn, and be ready to defend against them

The most urgent is #1. You can do #2 as you have time, it is not a priority beyond the first two cities. Place your first city where the settler spawns and the other as you choose, but I prefer on the east coast just above the rice. Later you can place a city in the north on or around the silver and then another in the far north, which is the island of Hokkaido, but is not a seperate island on this map. You can place a 5th on the gold in the south, or where I prefer is the little island (which I guess is Okinawa) just south of the gold.

But again, the main point is China! You need a city on the Korean peninsula. You can either establish one (which I do) or wait for Seoul to spawn and take it over one way or another. Sooner or later China will get the Plague. Hope they get it worse than you and that it causes some of their cities to go independent. Then you can pick off these cities when the plague ends. Depending on your military situation you will probably only be able to capture one or two cities. But that is fine. You can wait to attack China directly if you are weak, just prepare. Probably China will collapse around 800-950 AD, or you can spur it on around 900 assuming you have enough forces.

Now this whole time you are of course racing your tech to get Samurai (Code of Laws). I usually do not have Samurai by the time I start marching through China, but you need to get them to hold China. After that your goals should be Engineering (pikeman to defend against Mongolia) and Gunpowder.

Be careful! You need to be most powerful by 1500, but you also need to never lose a city. When you start getting down south near the Khmer and Indians you need to ask yourself if you will be able to defend the cities you are taking. Going too far past Hanoi, for example, could be asking for trouble. (Though hopefully India will later collapse, the Khmer will probably hang around as a threat.) If you go south past Hanoi, plan to completely wipe them out, but then you gotta hold all those cities till 1850! NOTE: Catapults cannot go through the Jungles even with roads, be prepared for that.

Another note: I take Bejing but leave the other Chinese city up north alone (north of Bejing, A-something). Let the mongols have it. The mongols will spawn around 1000 and start attacking up north; the less cities you have up there, the better. If you take it, the citizens will keep asking to join Mongolia, and you have to say no, and then mongolia will attack there and Bejing.

Final note: It is a long way from Hanoi to Bejing, and you will need to get units back up there sooner or later to deal with the mongols. So keep that in the back of your head as well.

Once you take over China you'll need a while to stabilize the economy, just keep racing for pikemen and gunpower as best you can. If the Khmer are still around in the south expect them to attack sooner or later, probably in conjunction with with Mongols. The Khmer are pretty weak though, especially if you took a few of their cities.

You may end up in a race between India for most powerful in 1500 (or Arabia), it will probably be tight. Just take as many Chinese cities as you feel safe holding (go into Tibet!), try to get some wonders out, and keep that Tech as high as you can, with extra scientists where you can spare them.

If you can get that first UHV condition met, you are probably set. Keeping culture out of the main islands is pretty much automatic, so you are just waiting for 1700 and a free Golden Age (which you get when you reach 2/3 conditions).

Your two biggest problems after 1500 are:
1) Economy (keeping the tech up around 50%+ can be hard)
2) Mongolian invasion

The Mongols will come for you sooner or later. They have 10HP Keshiks. You have 8HP Samurai. The good news is you just need to DEFEND! Pikemen with upgrades and Samurai with the "Mounted Units" promotion will be adequate if they are fortified in cities, but be careful on the open plains where you can get hit by multiple Keshiks from out of nowhere.

Plus the Mongolians are rushing for Gunpowder as well, and Cannons plus Keshiks are lethal, unless you have cannons and some musketmen. Once you get gunpowder cannons are a good bet because one or two of them can basically shut down a Mongolian advance. And again, you just need to hold on . Sooner or later Mongolia will be at war with one or two other Civs, and if you have enough defenders you may be able to go on the offensive. But you just need to hold what you have, so I suggest trying to make peace with Mongolia as soon as they will accept without cost, rather than taking over more cities which you will then be obligated to hold.

The Europeans will start to over take you, and colonize around South Asia around 1700 or so, but they should not be a threat to you before 1850, especially if you have gunpowder. But making a run for Military techs is still good insurance. But if you can hold off the Mongols, you should be OK.

Final note, you can get a good military city from either the 1st or 2nd city on the main island by completing the Maori Statues wonder, this wonder will help a lot! Combine with a military academy, barracks etc... and you will be able to create units with 2-3 promotions in 1 or 2 turns by the time you are at war with Mongolia. Helpful!

***

Now just a comment: I like this scenario a lot, and it is very fun (which is really the point), but I have only one little complaint: basically there is no threat of Mongolian invasion of the Japanese home islands. I've never seen the Mongols get a city next to the ocean. If I remember my history the Mongols attempted to invade around 1300 but were driven back by strong winds (divine wind = kamikazie), which broke up their fleet. They then got pre-occupied with other things, and finally just gave up on invading Japan, which probably would have easily fallen. I don't think you can accurately portray this on this map, but you could do something similar by letting the Mongols spawn a city north of the Korean peninsula with an army of say 2 galleys and various troops. But then again, maybe that is a dumb idea.

Ryry

 

[LukeUeda-Sarson]

My strategy as Japan was very different - why muck around in China when you can colonize Australia and the Philippines? This will make you the highest scoring civ in 1500 without having to fight anybody...

Cheers, Luke

 

[fearuin]

The reason is: it will kill your economy... unless you go without SR all the way around, so you can become a trading king! However, that will make harder to achieve the second goal, but a few wonders may fix the problem.

 

[LukeUeda-Sarson]

If you fight no wars, obviously you become a trading king, you have nothing else you need to do! Given all those coastal tiles, it's not hard to do. Build the Colossus early on, and reap the rewards - you get copper very early so it should be easy.

Of course peaceful games aren't to everyone's cup of tea, but if not, why are you playing a pre-Industrial Japan?

Cheers, Luke

 

[fearuin]

Yes, Colossus is of great help, as well as Artemisa's temple. Another important thing: consider very well where to settle. Japan's strategy is always about huge cities, and with all that resources in Indonesia, it's temting to settle in just every inch of land you find... but beware! you should settle only where land resources are available, and be confident on your culture to catch sea ones.

 

[coko]

One of the largest cities possible to make in Japan is Toyko, but that takes up most of the resources in the centre, however it gives you a pretty powerful powerhouse. NE of farm if I remember on the grassland. Maybe settling E of the farm would help as your most northern city could get the silver for production.

I generally only have 3 cities on the japanese mainland, (I settle SW of the start location on the hill for culture attacking). And then I take australia with a few settlers. I tend to keep away from mainland asia because that gets me into a huge war and hits my stability.

 

[Ryry]

I am going to try that peaceful approach this weekend. I guess I am prejudiced from playing regular CIV4, in which, if you are Japan, you have to do something about China sooner or later. IMHO

But I can see in RFC how China is not as much of a potential threat. Also I noticed that the Mongols don't seem to settle the area North of Korea that much (compared to CIV4).

Still, I am skeptical. I just don't think it is possible to get the first objective peacefully.... but I'll try

Ryry