Strategy discussion

[ZachScape]

Every time I try to find Denver as America, I get Grand Junction. It must be to the east then. But is there a city name map or a button I can click on world builder to view the names of each plot/ each civilization? That would be fun to look at.

 

[blizzrd]

Denver is founded on the oil tile which is located a little to the S of the Gold.

 

[ZachScape]

Is oil the only coordinate for Denver. I hate founding on resources.
But even if it was on a different coordinate nearby, would it still be the greatest production city in Rhye's?

I don't get this... what makes a city work better than another. I know the BFC and tile bonus has something but I am never certain where to found a city, even on regular BtS games.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

The oil location catches all the closeby resources (cow, corn, wheat, uranium, coal, horse, gold), uses all the possible hills nearby, it's on a river, and doesn't overlap with Chicago and New Orleans. A little bit east, you'll miss out on the production (while getting more food), while a little south you miss out on the river and get some desert and desert hills. You can't use the oil until much later so what's the problem? (An oil well doesn't really add much and I always build a workshop over Edmonton's and New Orleans' oil patch until combustion).

Sometimes founding on resources is the best option (the gold in South Africa, the corn 1SW of Cuzco, 1SW of London on the cow, the corn 2W of Montevideo, the Constance stone, etc) Inverness is founded on a squir...sorry, beaver. RFC's world is rich enough to afford this, while I would never do so in regular BTS.

 

[blizzrd]

It's the abundance of resources in RFC that justifies sometimes founding directly on tiles with resources. In regular BTS, because of the scarcity of resources I also never found cities on the resource tile either.

As an example, founding on the Gold in South Africa when playing the Dutch is better than anywhere else because it immediately adds the resource to all of your city resource screens. Another location would then require you to first build a worker, then build a mine and a road - all of which would take many, many turns to complete.

 

[ZachScape]

Thanks AP and Blizzrd. That helped a lot. I guess I just have get over my stubbornness to settle on a resource . It's not a big deal, I just don't like to see the resource under my cities, looks weird.
Anyways, I was also wondering if there was a map that showed what city is founded on what tile. That's one of my favorite part about Rhye's.

(Actually on my first time playing, I played as Rome, saw that when I conquered cities that their name changed and was amazed. I ended up going on World Builder and spammed Praetorians and settlers everywhere. I quit the game when my Empire collapsed, leaving all or Europe, Africa, Central America and Western South America an Independent nightmare. ).

 

[Hangly Man]

Hangly man, that's always my strategy with the Aztecs. I never found Tenochtitlan because it cannot grow beyond 9 pop. The next city you should found is Chicago (boxes the Americans in), and then Denver.

Haven't you sent a workboat out to meet the Europeans?

Sure, but with no conquistadors event how are you going to get your 5 white slaves?

 

[Hangly Man]

The oil location catches all the closeby resources (cow, corn, wheat, uranium, coal, horse, gold), uses all the possible hills nearby, it's on a river, and doesn't overlap with Chicago and New Orleans. A little bit east, you'll miss out on the production (while getting more food), while a little south you miss out on the river and get some desert and desert hills. You can't use the oil until much later so what's the problem? (An oil well doesn't really add much and I always build a workshop over Edmonton's and New Orleans' oil patch until combustion).

Sometimes founding on resources is the best option (the gold in South Africa, the corn 1SW of Cuzco, 1SW of London on the cow, the corn 2W of Montevideo, the Constance stone, etc) Inverness is founded on a squir...sorry, beaver. RFC's world is rich enough to afford this, while I would never do so in regular BTS.

That, and resources underneath cities can never be pillaged. When playing Persia I always found my second city smack on the horses. That guarantees you can always build a military even during those times you're overrun with barbs. (Barbarians almost never pillage roads.)

 

[blizzrd]

Sure, but with no conquistadors event how are you going to get your 5 white slaves?

There are plenty of Europeans who arrive in America and can be enslaved without needing to rely on the conqueror events to supply them.

 

[blizzrd]

(Barbarians almost never pillage roads.)

This is not true in my games.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Best Europeans to enslave are the defenseless ones in settlements like Caracas, Boston and New York, after their plague and when you have gunpowder and astronomy yourself. Jaguars/spearmen against cannon and knights/crossbows = no good.

 

[Hangly Man]

This is not true in my games.

They pillage roads on the same tile as other resources, but I've never seen them go after a plain old road. They always try to make for a city before they get that desperate. Meaning the resource under your city will remain connected.

Perhaps your cities are too well-defended, and the barbs are pillaging your roads out of despair and spite? My cities are usually just weak enough that the AI goes straight for them (netting me experience.) I've noticed that if the defense in my border cities is too high they'll go around them into the heart of my empire, which is no good. Learned that trick playing the Aztecs.

 

[Hangly Man]

I finally got 2/3 as China. Woohoo! Pretty sure the last goal is impossible in 1.184, so I'm gonna call that a win.

And here's my secret, the only way I have been able to get those academies in time without crashing my science:

Sent my first warrior due west and met up with Greece just as it spawns. Sent a second warrior around the mountains to hook up with India. They don't have alphabet and can't trade, but Rome will be along soon enough, and they do.

Went straight for writing, built a library, hired two scientists.

When my Great Scientist was born, bulbed Alphabet.

With Alphabet I was able to trade techs with everyone, and Alphabet itself trades for a lot. I got about eight of them total one turn later, most importantly Priesthood from India and sailing from Greece.

Beijing switched production to Oracle, and with the help of some workers built it in 4 turns. Oracle bounce to Calendar (and Taoism) in 600 BC!

After that, building all those cities and temples was almost relaxing.

 

[blizzrd]

I finally got 2/3 as China. Woohoo! Pretty sure the last goal is impossible in 1.184, so I'm gonna call that a win.

I doubt this very much. There is nothing new between 1.181 and 1.184 that should make getting the 3rd UHV condition impossible now.
EDIT: You have to ruthlessly use the whip, that's all.

Why do you think it is impossible?

 

[Hangly Man]

I doubt this very much. There is nothing new between 1.181 and 1.184 that should make getting the 3rd UHV condition impossible now.
EDIT: You have to ruthlessly use the whip, that's all.

Why do you think it is impossible?

Because it completely borks the economy.

China's in bad economic shape between 1000 and 1500 AD anyway because of the drag of having 8 cities, and all the whipping you have to do to build all those temples and cathedrals. (Having a bank, grocer, and market in all 8 barely pushes me above 70% science, even with the Great Lighthouse, Temple of Artemis, and both shrines.)

Now, my cities are always in tip-top shape, and I always have more than my share of wonders, but by the time I have whipped out 50 or 60 troops my science is already starting to dip below 10% from the unit costs and the unhappiness.

Please tell me I'm missing something.


In earlier versions I believe I recall China could get to writing a lot faster than it can now, moving up the first UHV by a couple hundred years and meaning the economy doesn't suffer nearly as much.
In more recent versions I have to keep below 3 (max 4) cities to be able to get mathematics and calendar first, which means the other five have to be founded (and then subsequently whipped nearly to death) between 200 and 1000 AD in order to get all the necessary buildings. There's no time to let them grow past size 3 or 4, making them nothing but economic dead weight. By 1300 or 1400 I'm only barely recovered and can't survive the cost of whipping out that many troops.

 

[wr4th]

Because it completely borks the economy.

China's in bad economic shape between 1000 and 1500 AD anyway because of the drag of having 8 cities, and all the whipping you have to do to build all those temples and cathedrals. (Having a bank, grocer, and market in all 8 barely pushes me above 70% science, even with the Great Lighthouse, Temple of Artemis, and both shrines.)

Now, my cities are always in tip-top shape, and I always have more than my share of wonders, but by the time I have whipped out 50 or 60 troops my science is already starting to dip below 10% from the unit costs and the unhappiness.

Please tell me I'm missing something.

Done it already in the latest version. I didn't have major problems to support my troops, sure my research was extremely low but you don't need it for the uhv. You can also set 1 or 2 cities to wealth production if needed.
Of course don't start building troops to early and always build the cheapest possible: warrior/spearmen.
I don't see why you should have happiness prblems, since every whipped troop absorbs one unhappiness in HR.

 

[Hangly Man]

Ok, I'm going to reload to 1000 AD and try again.

 

[BurnEmDown]

I followed pku_west's strategy using SH, it was very good and I started building lots of spearmen after I finished building the academies few turns before the deadline. I think if the goal was reduced to 2 confu academies and 1 tao it'll be much more do-able, but still hard.

 

[Power_of_Beer]

A note to Japan:
Don't found your capital on spot, instead move 2S on the forest hill and found Matsuyama as capital and Edo. This way you have no overlap of the BFC, making Edo a powerhouse production city. Focus on commerce in Matsuyama, the gold will help a lot in early research. It may take a while for it to grow because the borders have to expand to get the food resources, but you can actually keep it at Pop 3, hire 2 scientists (after whipping a library) and work the Rice, Crabs and gold. Focus on bulding important Wonders in Edo after whipping a monument, and after capturing the corean city, one should have no problems getting the UHVs.

 

[wr4th]

A note to Japan:
Don't found your capital on spot, instead move 2S on the forest hill and found Matsuyama as capital and Edo. This way you have no overlap of the BFC, making Edo a powerhouse production city. Focus on commerce in Matsuyama, the gold will help a lot in early research. It may take a while for it to grow because the borders have to expand to get the food resources, but you can actually keep it at Pop 3, hire 2 scientists (after whipping a library) and work the Rice, Crabs and gold. Focus on bulding important Wonders in Edo after whipping a monument, and after capturing the corean city, one should have no problems getting the UHVs.

I would rather pick Edo as the capitol and use beaurocracy asap. Since your empire is quite small for a long time this is fine from a stability point of view and since edo is your only major production city the +50% is even more important, since it needs to build its own infrastructure, all wonders and military.
In my last game i managed to build the colossus and moai statues in Edo. Damn that was a monster city