Strategy discussion

[Veshta]

I have found Bureaucracy to be a really potent tool for the more condensed (ie. few cities prior to bloom) civilizations like Portugal, England, Netherlands, Spain. Combined with Representation and Castes research and gold making goes through the roof.
Attacking Carthage straight off the bat works just fine, but only if he has most of his the troops out and about just like the wiki says. I think people have become wonder whores and opt to wait for the size 2 capture so that the motherland can build wonders instead of settlers

Tried Persia but got bored to tears. Delhi + 3 widely spaced indian cities, Jerusalem and Greece is all it takes for 8%. Grab the Pyramids for easy BFC expansion (Babylon sometimes has them even) and use Delhi to whip missionaries and GPs for shrines. Egypt was a no go as he had hordes of copper units already in place so had to improvise.

Testing the viability of using Castes/Monarchy from the get go rather than going through slavery first .. so far with good results (England, Portugal, Dutch) makes for a slower start building wise but research/economy is top notch and production kicks off when guilds hit. Works as early as China by building Stonehenge as well .. seems food is power no matter how its used

 

[Higher Game]

Bureaucracy is good for civilizations that have a very low tolerance for expansion. Not everyone can be Persia or Rome.

Carthage doesn't seem worth taking to me. Even if you do take it, camel archers demand a constant supply of spearmen, giving it a very poor payoff. It's hard enough to hold off the European barbarians. Greece is a much nicer target.

 

[deanej]

You need two cities in Carthage for the UHV. If you don't care about the UHV, you can ignore Carthage all you want.

 

[lymond]

I was following the strat guide on Greece which mentioned finishing the Oracle right after Iron Working to take Machinery. Problem is that Machinery is not available after Iron Working. I'm trying to figure out what the guy was thinking who wrote that article or if I'm doing something wrong. It appears you need metal casting before Machinery but that would definitely throw his guide out of whack.

I'm I crazy or is this Greece guide just flat wrong. Also, if any has in recommendations on an approach for Greece I'd appreciate it. Man, these UHVs are tough.

 

[BurnEmDown]

Yeah these guides were written for several versions back. In a recent update Rhye removed some starting techs from some civs.

 

[lymond]

double post

 

[lymond]

Anyone try the Mali UHV lately? I thought it might be a fun casual UHV with mainly a diplo focus (to keep the peace and trades open) while focusing on critical infra and commerce. Problem is that the barbs are flat out outrageous from the start. There's no breather to get settled and improve. The really kicker is in the early going you can only really defend from the cities so impis and what not reek havoc on any improvements or make your workers run around in circles. The first go I settled Accra and it was subsequently razed two turns later on a lucky impi roll. (yeah, I do head up to the iron/elephants but it takes time to get that hooked up.

Anyone have success with the Mali?

 

[fearuin]

I have tried the Mali UHV a few times, and there are a few approaches you may use. I'll try to summarize them:
-The Roman Gambit. The idea is to pick Rome, conquer Carthage, and expand to the south, so when Mali appears, yo may pick a couple of cities and a few valious Pretorians you may use to defend against the barbarians in the initial stages. I haven't tried this strategy in the last version (Ethiopia surely will influence to make it harder), but last time I tried, I managed to expand to South Africa, and to conquer Egypt before the Turks appeared, after a lucky early collapse of Arabia.
-The American Gambit. This is hard to get, but if do it right, it's very very profitable. The idea is to focus on the sea. Go for Navigation since the beggining, and try to settle in Brazil. Spain and Portugal may get a bit angry, but a powerful navy should be enough to defend from them. Get the Dutch and the English in your pocket, and push them to declare on Spain and Portugal. While they're busy, expand to Argentina, and build a Forbidden Palace in the south of Brazil. Since this point, getting the UHV is relatively easy. With the resources on America, you may get enough trades to gain money enough to win. Your only concern may be not to push too much to the south of Africa. That gold in South Africa may be tempting, but you relay on the friendship with England, and Queen Victoria may turn the tables if you settle in that area.

Have fun!

 

[lymond]

Regarding Colony requirements for UHVs like Portugal, does this mean you need to grant independence to groups of cities or just settle cities. Portal requires 15 extra European colonies. Does that mean that I need to grant independence 15 times to groupings of cities? How many cities are needed to make a colony? Does vassalizing Aztecs and Incans count towards this total?

 

[Ekolite]

It means build 15 cities outside of europe.

 

[Leoreth]

To clarify: vassalized or conquered cities don't count.

 

[blizzrd]

It means build 15 cities outside of europe.

Moreover, you only have to use 15 settlers to build 15 cities. It doesn't matter if you don't hold onto any of the cities after they are built.

 

[lymond]

Thanks for help folks. Interestingly, I tried out the colony button for kicks and it creates one of those independent cities. Pointless. Of course, it may work like regular civ in which you need...I think...3 cities to make a colony.

 

[Panopticon]

Thanks for help folks. Interestingly, I tried out the colony button for kicks and it creates one of those independent cities. Pointless. Of course, it may work like regular civ in which you need...I think...3 cities to make a colony.

Since there are so many more civs in RFC compared to normal Civ, there are no additional civs that you can create through colonies. All cities go to independents.

 

[lymond]

Since there are so many more civs in RFC compared to normal Civ, there are no additional civs that you can create through colonies. All cities go to independents.

so basically there is no point to colonies

 

[Panopticon]

so basically there is no point to colonies

I don't think there is a point to colonies. People who know more about the stability system might be able to explain if they can help you increase your stability.

 

[Cosmos1985]

I don't think there is a point to colonies. People who know more about the stability system might be able to explain if they can help you increase your stability.

As far as I've understood it's almost never a good idea to let a city go indy, if trying to improve stability. It may help your expansion rating but otoh your economy is weakened, so that often offsets each other. So no, I don't think there's a point in doing it as well.

Liberating a city to another civ gives quite the stability boost though, and can save your butt when you're in a tough spot stability-wise.

 

[Walliard]

I use it to get rid of my Carthaginian cities as Rome so I don't have to defend them from barbarians. They don't produce anything worthwhile anyway.

 

[lymond]

I really need help with Mali. The barbs are just ridiculous at the start. I really think the Mali scenario is just plain broken.

 

[Mazzini]

I really need help with Mali. The barbs are just ridiculous at the start. I really think the Mali scenario is just plain broken.

Yeah, it's pretty much totally luck-based. Definitely the hardest UHV. You basically need to flip a barb elephant or camel archer to have any shot against barbs, and even then a billion other things need to go right.