Strategy Discussion

[Earthling]

I think it should be noted, again, as I think we had this figured out before, that NOBODY CAN POSSIBLY ATTACK ANOTHER TEAM'S HOME ISLAND WITH GALLEYS.

Galleys can't enter ocean, and we've got a solid buffer of ocean around us. I only assume the same is true for other teams as really makes sense. We can enter our own cultural borders, but enemy units can't enter ocean even if it is someone else's cultural borders.

However, this isn't to say I don't get where the concern for military and/or resources is coming from - that still is something of course. It's just I really doubt any invasions/attacks are likely. The main continent being overrun with some barbarians, that is actually a possibility - much easier to fight barbs with axes than warriors. But I'm not sure anyone would even feasibly attack another team's outlying cities on the main continents with axes either.

I really say we just hold our horses and be flexible on diplomacy though. Really, the best thing we want is to get 2-3 civs working together to tech cooperatively. If we get three teams and we choose to research Iron Working, and one of them gets Alphabet and another gets Aesthetics or I dunno whatever they want, that's all good for trade. What we don't want to happen is bad diplomacy, resulting in, say, us and the Vikings both building up military tech we can't use easily against each other and puts us behind all the other teams.

 

[cav scout]

I agree with TyBoy. The first team that will DoW in this game is the vikings, and they are going to want to go after someone with berserkers. They won't ruin that with an earlier pre-mace war that the map isn't conducive for.

EDIT: crosspost with Earthling. Agree 100% with you as well. Lets wait til we meet our neighbors and figure out what tech deals we can work out before deciding conclusively on what part the of the tech tree we want to work. Overlap research would put us behind a rival alliance. And this game is going to be about alliances!

 

[RegentMan]

I agree.

 

[Provolution]

Ok, no military threat from vikings to our island before berserkers, I support.

But I also support dominating the main continent militarily, and sorry folks, I am not happy with warriors only for the next 50 turns, thats a given. At the minimum we should identify ONE military resource, prior to Calendar, or at least consider Archers as a bare minimum, to hold the mainland.

 

[Provolution]

The big difference in traits between us and CDZland is that we got Charismatic and they got
Aggressive trait, both military traits. We already got Stonehenge to boost the monuments, so we covered that base. Next use to compensate for the added experience of CDZ melee units would be to get troops asap to mainland for training, utilizing the 25 % xp bonus only charismatic holds. The longer we wait with this, and with the wrong troops (warriors), the less we gain from this trait.

I say we go for Iron Working asap.

 

[MrBanana]

Yes, iron working is essiential. We have the best research in the game (it looks like), so we can grab IW easily.

 

[Earthling]

No, we don't have the best research in the game, or at least not by more than 1-2 beakers. We have 15 culture or something right now though, which is like 10 more than most other teams, which is why our GNP is higher. If anything some teams if they have a third gold mine or something (our last silver mine is not up yet) may have a few more actual beakers. But we should be solid in the long term, we are financial and will have some large and rich cities.

 

[MrBanana]

Well if they can't work the mine now, they still have to build it, so we'll still have the lead for a few turns.

 

[Provolution]

I suggest the following build sequence:

4 turns, settler for Quatronia
1 turn, warrior
5 turns, worker
6 turns, galley, also increases population to 7.
8 turns settler for Resonance or Asymptote

The reason why its best to do this, is that CDZlands boat will pass us in 11 turns or so, then realize the same as us, that this would be the area we will settle first, and that there is limited land between us. By the time they discover the desert peninsula and Mavericks, they will really understand its going to be a race for the mainland. We are best off by building the 3rd city on the mainland, as we then can allow ourselves to work the SE mine, work the clam and allow Continuum to grow to size 8 as it builds a library to boost science further.

The two other cities, Singularity and the one SW would be easy to backfill after the library, with a size 8 city. This also allows us at least a fair chance to spread on the mainland.

 

[cav scout]

I would do the galley before the worker.

We can grow to pop 7 and still have improved tiles to work, so its not urgent to get the worker right away. Building the galley first gets our warriors on the mainland faster to start exploration. And if we choose to we can make sure CDZ sees our galley as they pass by.

 

[Provolution]

I would still get the worker first, to get up the mine SE Continuum, the first worker will be committed elsewhere.

 

[RegentMan]

I like the idea of getting the warrior to the mainland ASAP to explore. Who knows we might find an even better spot for Resonance with a little terrain info.

 

[Provolution]

The problem with not having the worker first, is that we get several tiles to work at once in order to match city growth, and the added worker may readily be shipped over to the mainland later. 5 turns is not much delay for the galley, and the added mine would be more than useful in boosting capital productivity.

 

[cav scout]

We will have good tiles for up to 7 citizens to work so I don't understand the "match the city growth" argument. Did you want to build the mine and let it sit idle? Or stop working one of the cottages?

 

[Provolution]

No. its quite obvious. We got 2 silver mines, 2 farmed wheat and 2 cottages. When the city grows to size 7, it will need to work another tile. I much prefer to start working the mine, as well as preparing the road structure for Singularity, than just make one lone worker try to work both cities at once. Its that simple.

 

[Arakhor]

I think we ought to have a second worker as well.

 

[cav scout]

It will take 7 turns to grow to pop 7. So if we build the Worker first and he immediately builds the mine (5 turns later) then we still have to wait two more turns until pop 7. So one of our improvements, the new mine or a cottage, will be idle for 2 turns.

I would rather grow to pop 7 building the galley and then start the worker. We can work the spice tile (211) with our 7th citizen and build the worker in 4 turns instead of 5.

It's more efficient to build the galley first and it gets our explorers over to the mainland sooner. We will have plenty of time to prep the road to Singulary before we send our next Settler that direction.

 

[Earthling]

See, I'd rather have the worker go farm the wheat and mine that plains hill (hopefully with iron?) for our third city. If we are settling Resonance/Asymptote, which need a workboat anyway more than a worker at first, we could go straight galley/settler.

The capital is probably good with the spices and its tiles already. The next thing a worker would do in the capital is forest chop - though maybe the one more grass mine we pick up when convenient. Although we could probably combine a chop and then going to farm the wheat if we settle Singularity next, but the worker ties in more to that plan I think than settling overseas.

 

[Provolution]

I disagree heavily on a capital forest chop, that would reduce our health there even further, from 7 to 6.

 

[Earthling]

Edit - I should say this somewhat of a jumbled discussion between this and the turn discussion thread. I think what we want to do is have a best-case plan laid out for either decision we're making, as we're undecided on city settling, but I think it's also worked out solidly over there.

And I have to say again, that a loss in one health isn't and won't ever be that big of a deal with our setup in this game. It will be remedied eventually - the worst case will last about 10-15 turns of that minus one health, best case is we somehow get another resource already in trade to cancel it.

We could have efficient growth otherwise, but building roads/mines is not worth investment in the worker right now. If we want straight galley => settlers/workboat that's doable, not my first choice, but it works if getting to Resonance/Asymptote fast is the goal, and we would have one or two settlers faster, because we save time in not building another worker.

If we get the worker, and for the sake of discussion we'll still assume settling overseas, chopping is still more of a short term gain than anything else. We could chop two forests and lose one health. If we get Math (if we self-research Math we'd have it in, if we get Alpha we maybe save the prechopped forests until we trade for Math if it can be soon) then 2 chops is 60 hammers right away. 1 food lost when we have surplus food is not going to slow down building a couple of settlers more than that - the forests pay off, make up for actually building the worker, and then the worker is still around to build other stuff.

I just don't think health is actually an issue to worry about - of course for interesting choices about our civ and how we're playing there are many different calls to make. But worrying about health is purely a micromanagement thing, and if the capital has one unhealthy, it's fine, it's not worth giving up workable plans otherwise.