civtrader6
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2017
- Messages
- 171
Hi all,
with a little bit of practice and lots of forward planning, getting a science victory in 150-160 turns is easily doable, even with weaker civs across all difficulties (including France and Harald, on deity difficulty).
However, at least for me, pushing the victory to 140 turns or below seems to be daunting and situational. So far, I've developed one strategy with Gilgamesh that works on lower difficulties (Prince Turn 138 and Emperor Turn 140). Sadly, this one is not likely to work on higher difficulties.
So my question would be - is there any other civ that can pull a science victory in 140 turns or less? What would be a good strategy? Any ideas?
What sets Gilgamesh apart from other civ's is the unique ability to get inspirations/eureka's from barb camps. On a large map, this easily translates into a number of inspirations that would otherwise not be possible (e.g. in my last game, urbanization and humanism and countless others) when going for a quick SV. This saves a number of turns.
Also, other civ's require you to build 2 armies, while Sumeria allows you to upgrade warcarts into knights (I always purchase a battering ram too).
Even then, it's not enough. To shave these 10-15 turns and get your victory to T140 and under you also need:
* 2-3 scientific city states (2 is enough with religion).
* mid-early religion (see below) (also, this is why this strategy is not suitable for deity).
* neighbour with strong culture (e.g. gorgo or hojo - to capture theater squares and great works of writing) or Kumasi (to reach Suffrage/Democracy before turn 140).
Without the above, or with any other civ, a slightly adapted version of the strategy below regulary nets T150-T160 science victory on all difficulties.
Gilgamesh Fast Science Victory - General Strategy
Early Civics strategy and build order:
All early civics need to be boosted for quick Classical Republic (less than 50 turns).
Start with a builder/scout or scout/builder (depending on available tiles and how many techs are needed), get inspiration for Craftmanship.
Next make a settler. Finish researching Craftsmanship exactly on the turn the settler is done. Insert Agoge (for 50% military units). Build 3x slingers and 1 or 2 warriors.
Next start researching Military Tradition. At this point you are likely to get a boost. Leave it at one turn before completion and finish only when you are done making slingers/warriors.
Then immediately switch to Maneuver (50% cavalry) and start producing warcarts. (I do it exclusively in the capital, 6-8 max).
Find a target neighbour civ or city state. At turn 30+ they should have a holy site finished. Conquer, get a boost for State workforce.
As soon as possible, boost and research Early Empire for Colonisation (50% settlers). Ideally, your second and third/fourth city (the one's you conquered) should now start making settlers. The capital will join as soon as the military is done.
If possible settle the (first or) second city on a luxury and improve at least one luxury. Sell luxuries for lump gold. Use money to buy one or two builders. Chop to speed up settlers. Make at least 8 settlers.
Once Political Philosophy is done, with Gilgamesh you can go for Classical Republic (at this point you do not need the military slot - warcarts do not have upkeep, by now you should have already built all the military you will need for the rest of the game, so even if you've upgraded the slingers to archers -3 gold is ok) (note however, the maybe you want to get Oligarchy for a few turns if you haven't finished the military or you face a tough war).
Preferred policies will be Urban Planning (+1 production), 30% for builders and 50% for settlers (for some time).
Early Mid-Game Civics Strategy
You need to reach Merchant republic as fast as possible. Normally that means, hard-researching Games and Recreations. Make sure to boost Medival Fairies (4 trade routes - see note on districts), Recorded History (2 campus districts), Feudalism (I do this exclusively through capturing cities with farms, and maybe one of my own in capital).
If you're lucky you will boost either the Military Tactics (by capturing an Encampment or through barb camps - building an encampment is a no-go for T140, but great for regular T150-160 victories) and Defensive Tactics (barb camp or city state declaring or you, or perhaps even an enemy civ).
Unless lucky with goody huts, be ready to hard-research Civil Service and Exploration.
Mid-Late Game Civics Strategy:
Again, unless lucky with goody huts, normally I do not boost Humanism, Diplomatic Service, Urbanization and Suffrage. All others will get a boost.
(Make sure to build 2 markets for Guilds, you will definitely get a Great Merchant for Mercantilism, and 3 Great People in time for Enlightenment. Civil Engineering is likely to be boosted through capture (you could build a harbour, capture a theater square etc). On lower difficulties boost for Nationalism through declaring a war with casus-belli should be possible etc.
Before going for suffrage, i also get Collonialism for envoys.
DISTRICTS:
Except for the first (or first two) all other cities should start by making a monument.
Pre-place (but do not build districts). Normally, first 2 cities can pre-place a campus (and later commercial hubs). The next 2 commercial hubs.
Place the districts as soon as possible. Took me a long long time to realise that saving production (through lower district costs is much much better than chasing (very often super weak (like +1 or +2) adjacency.
WONDERS
One central city should start with a Entertainment district for Colosseum. Note that this city does not even have to have fresh water, just needs a few good tiles to chop, so that you can put the Colosseum up as soon as you get Feudalism.
If possible and still available, one city should be able to chop Pyramids (can be done with 2-3 chops, once you get feudalism). Needless to say, save all one charge workers.
For late game you will also need Big Ben. You need a dedicated city that will get a bank and start building Big Ben around Turn 100+ or so.
(Note: normally for T150-160 SV, going for great zimbabve is a good option, however, I haven't tried it with Gilgamesh so as not to delay the spaceport).
General TECH Strategy:
Should be straightforward and consistent with all other advice around. Most, but not all early techs will get a boost (don't build that aquaduct). I personally never build walls either. Make sure to time Stirups with Feudalism.
After that move to the top of the tree. Essentially you need to balance researching toward Space Port tech and Big Ben. Ideally, you should hit Big Ben (Economics) at around T100 and Space Port at T100 at the latest.
To do this, you must rely on Great Scientists (which will boost pretty much all tech in the medieval and renesaince era's). Do not spend a great scientist until you boost what you can (e.g. build a niter mine for rifling first) etc.
Normally, once I get back to researching castles etc it only takes 1 turn per boosted tech.
After you hit the spaceport tech, try saving some industrial/modern era techs for boosts, as at this point the great scientists start coming too late.
Builders/Districts Strategy
Make sure to have a huge wave of builders for feudalism. New cities should start making a monument, but if necessary stop making the monuments and switch to builders. Districts should wait until feudalism. Once you've got feudalism start chopping districts. In each city, if its not already finished, chop the monument first. Then chop 3 CD and only then chop campuses.
Most cities do not need to grow past 4 pop. Granary only in capital and eventually the Big Ben City.
Industrial zone in capital (maybe, but not necessarily, also big ben city).
You will have the time to finish a workshop and a factory in the capital just before you start with Space Port.
Plan to also chop (or partly use overflow for 3 extra traders). Build 2 markets (one in Big Ben city).
In general, except for a few select cities, I rarely improve tiles. In some cities, I may build a mine or two
Farms? Never. Well, actually, there may be a farm in the capital for Craftsmanship and maybe later (T100+) build 2-4 farms in the capital for extra housing. Otherwise, never.
Keep chopping traders (e.g. ideally in cities that already have 2 districts and and forest/stone/deer)
At around civil engineering you should have a second wave of builders (on some maps, I've settled a late city in the middle of the woods - just for the purpose of chopping 6+ builders and nothing else).
WAR
After starting war at around T30, I keep warring up until T100 or so. Later, only if I want to stop an annoying religion or hit a boost.
Mercenaries straight after feudalism (maybe squeeze recorded history first). With the above focus on CD, your treasury will fill up suddenly (in 5-10 turns) to upgrade warcarts into knights.
RELIGION/PANTHEON
Most of the advice above (but not all) applies to regular T150-160 SV strategy. But so far, the only way I have found to pull the victory to T140 and below is rather religion.
Use captured holy sites to get a religion (2nd or 3rd). Go for Papal Primacy (50% from city states) and Jesuit Education (Purchase theater square buildings with faith). You may need to chop a holy site project or faith/gold purchase a prophet. Be careful. Convert your cities while small. Start converting city states first. Be ready to declare war to crush enemy missionaries.
(In one game I was able to snatch papal primacy (and convert city states) but China took Jesuit Education - so I had to spread their religion through my cities for JE, thats ok too, but that was T143 victory).
Pantheon: with Gilgamesh you are likely to be able to hit Goddess of the Harvest. All the chopping will allow you to (through time) purchase a library and university in every city.
SPACE
The usual. Capital must have at least 4 tiles to chop for all space-projects in one turn. Ideally, there should be at least 2 more to speed up the space-port. Same with big-ben city. Only these two cities get internal trade routes (1 to 3). All other trade routes go to merchant city states.
You will need at least 20+k saved before T140, cause you will have to buy at least 6-8 great scientists in 1-2 turns on lower difficulties.
Hope this helps. Let me know if I've forgot something. And, let me know if you have any suggestions as to how to do this with another civ.
Save:
I'm attaching a fun save on emperor difficulty (T140 SV) if you want to study/try for yourself.
(Note: I've the last civ captured was done for the purpose of boosting civil engineering and getting 2 city-state quests, didn't really need it otherwise).
You may also want to check-out GoTM10 (T138 SV on Prince).
with a little bit of practice and lots of forward planning, getting a science victory in 150-160 turns is easily doable, even with weaker civs across all difficulties (including France and Harald, on deity difficulty).
However, at least for me, pushing the victory to 140 turns or below seems to be daunting and situational. So far, I've developed one strategy with Gilgamesh that works on lower difficulties (Prince Turn 138 and Emperor Turn 140). Sadly, this one is not likely to work on higher difficulties.
So my question would be - is there any other civ that can pull a science victory in 140 turns or less? What would be a good strategy? Any ideas?
What sets Gilgamesh apart from other civ's is the unique ability to get inspirations/eureka's from barb camps. On a large map, this easily translates into a number of inspirations that would otherwise not be possible (e.g. in my last game, urbanization and humanism and countless others) when going for a quick SV. This saves a number of turns.
Also, other civ's require you to build 2 armies, while Sumeria allows you to upgrade warcarts into knights (I always purchase a battering ram too).
Even then, it's not enough. To shave these 10-15 turns and get your victory to T140 and under you also need:
* 2-3 scientific city states (2 is enough with religion).
* mid-early religion (see below) (also, this is why this strategy is not suitable for deity).
* neighbour with strong culture (e.g. gorgo or hojo - to capture theater squares and great works of writing) or Kumasi (to reach Suffrage/Democracy before turn 140).
Without the above, or with any other civ, a slightly adapted version of the strategy below regulary nets T150-T160 science victory on all difficulties.
Gilgamesh Fast Science Victory - General Strategy
Early Civics strategy and build order:
All early civics need to be boosted for quick Classical Republic (less than 50 turns).
Start with a builder/scout or scout/builder (depending on available tiles and how many techs are needed), get inspiration for Craftmanship.
Next make a settler. Finish researching Craftsmanship exactly on the turn the settler is done. Insert Agoge (for 50% military units). Build 3x slingers and 1 or 2 warriors.
Next start researching Military Tradition. At this point you are likely to get a boost. Leave it at one turn before completion and finish only when you are done making slingers/warriors.
Then immediately switch to Maneuver (50% cavalry) and start producing warcarts. (I do it exclusively in the capital, 6-8 max).
Find a target neighbour civ or city state. At turn 30+ they should have a holy site finished. Conquer, get a boost for State workforce.
As soon as possible, boost and research Early Empire for Colonisation (50% settlers). Ideally, your second and third/fourth city (the one's you conquered) should now start making settlers. The capital will join as soon as the military is done.
If possible settle the (first or) second city on a luxury and improve at least one luxury. Sell luxuries for lump gold. Use money to buy one or two builders. Chop to speed up settlers. Make at least 8 settlers.
Once Political Philosophy is done, with Gilgamesh you can go for Classical Republic (at this point you do not need the military slot - warcarts do not have upkeep, by now you should have already built all the military you will need for the rest of the game, so even if you've upgraded the slingers to archers -3 gold is ok) (note however, the maybe you want to get Oligarchy for a few turns if you haven't finished the military or you face a tough war).
Preferred policies will be Urban Planning (+1 production), 30% for builders and 50% for settlers (for some time).
Early Mid-Game Civics Strategy
You need to reach Merchant republic as fast as possible. Normally that means, hard-researching Games and Recreations. Make sure to boost Medival Fairies (4 trade routes - see note on districts), Recorded History (2 campus districts), Feudalism (I do this exclusively through capturing cities with farms, and maybe one of my own in capital).
If you're lucky you will boost either the Military Tactics (by capturing an Encampment or through barb camps - building an encampment is a no-go for T140, but great for regular T150-160 victories) and Defensive Tactics (barb camp or city state declaring or you, or perhaps even an enemy civ).
Unless lucky with goody huts, be ready to hard-research Civil Service and Exploration.
Mid-Late Game Civics Strategy:
Again, unless lucky with goody huts, normally I do not boost Humanism, Diplomatic Service, Urbanization and Suffrage. All others will get a boost.
(Make sure to build 2 markets for Guilds, you will definitely get a Great Merchant for Mercantilism, and 3 Great People in time for Enlightenment. Civil Engineering is likely to be boosted through capture (you could build a harbour, capture a theater square etc). On lower difficulties boost for Nationalism through declaring a war with casus-belli should be possible etc.
Before going for suffrage, i also get Collonialism for envoys.
DISTRICTS:
Except for the first (or first two) all other cities should start by making a monument.
Pre-place (but do not build districts). Normally, first 2 cities can pre-place a campus (and later commercial hubs). The next 2 commercial hubs.
Place the districts as soon as possible. Took me a long long time to realise that saving production (through lower district costs is much much better than chasing (very often super weak (like +1 or +2) adjacency.
WONDERS
One central city should start with a Entertainment district for Colosseum. Note that this city does not even have to have fresh water, just needs a few good tiles to chop, so that you can put the Colosseum up as soon as you get Feudalism.
If possible and still available, one city should be able to chop Pyramids (can be done with 2-3 chops, once you get feudalism). Needless to say, save all one charge workers.
For late game you will also need Big Ben. You need a dedicated city that will get a bank and start building Big Ben around Turn 100+ or so.
(Note: normally for T150-160 SV, going for great zimbabve is a good option, however, I haven't tried it with Gilgamesh so as not to delay the spaceport).
General TECH Strategy:
Should be straightforward and consistent with all other advice around. Most, but not all early techs will get a boost (don't build that aquaduct). I personally never build walls either. Make sure to time Stirups with Feudalism.
After that move to the top of the tree. Essentially you need to balance researching toward Space Port tech and Big Ben. Ideally, you should hit Big Ben (Economics) at around T100 and Space Port at T100 at the latest.
To do this, you must rely on Great Scientists (which will boost pretty much all tech in the medieval and renesaince era's). Do not spend a great scientist until you boost what you can (e.g. build a niter mine for rifling first) etc.
Normally, once I get back to researching castles etc it only takes 1 turn per boosted tech.
After you hit the spaceport tech, try saving some industrial/modern era techs for boosts, as at this point the great scientists start coming too late.
Builders/Districts Strategy
Make sure to have a huge wave of builders for feudalism. New cities should start making a monument, but if necessary stop making the monuments and switch to builders. Districts should wait until feudalism. Once you've got feudalism start chopping districts. In each city, if its not already finished, chop the monument first. Then chop 3 CD and only then chop campuses.
Most cities do not need to grow past 4 pop. Granary only in capital and eventually the Big Ben City.
Industrial zone in capital (maybe, but not necessarily, also big ben city).
You will have the time to finish a workshop and a factory in the capital just before you start with Space Port.
Plan to also chop (or partly use overflow for 3 extra traders). Build 2 markets (one in Big Ben city).
In general, except for a few select cities, I rarely improve tiles. In some cities, I may build a mine or two
Farms? Never. Well, actually, there may be a farm in the capital for Craftsmanship and maybe later (T100+) build 2-4 farms in the capital for extra housing. Otherwise, never.
Keep chopping traders (e.g. ideally in cities that already have 2 districts and and forest/stone/deer)
At around civil engineering you should have a second wave of builders (on some maps, I've settled a late city in the middle of the woods - just for the purpose of chopping 6+ builders and nothing else).
WAR
After starting war at around T30, I keep warring up until T100 or so. Later, only if I want to stop an annoying religion or hit a boost.
Mercenaries straight after feudalism (maybe squeeze recorded history first). With the above focus on CD, your treasury will fill up suddenly (in 5-10 turns) to upgrade warcarts into knights.
RELIGION/PANTHEON
Most of the advice above (but not all) applies to regular T150-160 SV strategy. But so far, the only way I have found to pull the victory to T140 and below is rather religion.
Use captured holy sites to get a religion (2nd or 3rd). Go for Papal Primacy (50% from city states) and Jesuit Education (Purchase theater square buildings with faith). You may need to chop a holy site project or faith/gold purchase a prophet. Be careful. Convert your cities while small. Start converting city states first. Be ready to declare war to crush enemy missionaries.
(In one game I was able to snatch papal primacy (and convert city states) but China took Jesuit Education - so I had to spread their religion through my cities for JE, thats ok too, but that was T143 victory).
Pantheon: with Gilgamesh you are likely to be able to hit Goddess of the Harvest. All the chopping will allow you to (through time) purchase a library and university in every city.
SPACE
The usual. Capital must have at least 4 tiles to chop for all space-projects in one turn. Ideally, there should be at least 2 more to speed up the space-port. Same with big-ben city. Only these two cities get internal trade routes (1 to 3). All other trade routes go to merchant city states.
You will need at least 20+k saved before T140, cause you will have to buy at least 6-8 great scientists in 1-2 turns on lower difficulties.
Hope this helps. Let me know if I've forgot something. And, let me know if you have any suggestions as to how to do this with another civ.
Save:
I'm attaching a fun save on emperor difficulty (T140 SV) if you want to study/try for yourself.
(Note: I've the last civ captured was done for the purpose of boosting civil engineering and getting 2 city-state quests, didn't really need it otherwise).
You may also want to check-out GoTM10 (T138 SV on Prince).
Last edited:
