Strategy for Sheelba

[papa john]

Hi, I am fairly new to the mod and the game. (Came on board after the plug from PA, thanks Tycho) I managed to stumble to a conquest victory on Prince level with Faeryl Viconia recently so I thought I would try a new game on Monarch.

I am starting a game as Sheelba and I was hoping for some commentary on the starting position and some advice on strategy.

Playing a huge tectonic world with:
- 18 civs
- raging barbs
- aggressive AI
- barbarian world
- end of winter
- living world
- all unique features

I reshuffled a few times until I got a good starting position but I haven't touched worldbuilder and don't plan to. I like suprises. This starting position is brimming with potential. 4 different resources, a goody hut and an island graveyard make for an interesting early game. I'm thinking of moving the settler 1 square south, the goblin to the goody hut and the warrior east to explore. My first builds will be a couple of warriors until I can pop a worker in time for agriculture. My early research goals will be aristofarms via agr>cal>ac>edu then meander towards bronze weapons. My biggest quandry is when to cast For the Horde. Ive never played seriously as CoE but I can see the potential in their worldspell. I don't want to bankrupt myself though so what should I do

 

[CurseUppl]

Generally the money you lose from using Call of the Horde (you'll have 0% research) is off set by the fact that you have 10-15 scouts running about picking up a mad number of huts. So, when I play Clans, I always pop it the first few turns in and I grab the most huts I can.

 

[Skyre Noktis]

Use For the Horde early to pop as many huts and graveyards as you can. The other big advantage of it is that you meet all other civs early, which makes Trade even more valuable than normal on non-Pangaea maps, as you can wheel and deal in techs between continents. Orcs are diplomats. Who knew?

Another important point to remember is that, being at peace with the barbarians from the start, your defences can be pretty minimal to begin with. Since there aren't a whole lot of other things to build early game as the Clan, consider using hammers you'd normally spend on defensive units on a small attack/pillage force to harass your neighbours with. You may be able to grab their capitals if you're lucky, especially if there are some Horde units or a goblin fort around (although the chances become slimmer the higher up in difficulty you go).

Obviously, you'll need to start defending your cities properly once the other civs begin building credible militaries.

Lastly, prioritise Masonry above (almost) all else. Warrens are incredibly powerful (+ remember they work on non-combat units, too). Once you have Bronze Working as well, you should just be able to overrun your weaker neighbours with sheer numbers.

 

[papa john]

Thanks for the input but I decided to hold off on casting For the Horde awhile because the first goody hut I popped only yeilded 23 gold and I really wanted to research calender to take advantage of the early resources. Anyway by turn 3 I found the Grigori and they had Remnants of Patria in thier fat cross. I very nearly cast FtH immediatly to get some troops and warrior rush Midgar, but I decided to scout just a bit longer to see if I could find a few barbs close and determine how big an army I could expect to have if I casted.

I am very glad I did because by turn 10 I was reasonably sure that I was on a small continent with just the Grigori and not a single barb in sight. By turn 16 I had confirmed this and commited to a warrior rush asap.

I declared war on turn 38 with just 5 warriors because I realized the Grigori were outproducing me with Rop and I wanted to cover it to stop this. I put my goblin on Rop and took out a few of his troops for xp then dug in to wait for reinforcements from the capital. I had some luck in that he had a scout and an adventurer protecting a worker near his border when I declared and they were easy to take out. The odds for the attack on the adventurer were 95%+ and my warrior netted 31xp and captured a worker!

The war was over by turn 45 and my army consisted of 3 warriors. 1 at 17xp, 0.4 and 1 at 36xp, 0.2 plus one new recruit in the capital. A lucky mud golem could have conquered my empire.

Then there was no point in casting FtH as early goody huts were gone and I had no reason to contact other civs until I could trade with them. Despite my earlier goals I decided to reseach GK before going for aristofarms because settler production prioritized economy.

The first bears appeared about turn 60 so the newer warriors hunted them for some xp but no barb warriors appeared until turn about turn 80. There was still no urgent reason to use FtH. I thought of teching cart to get some maps but decided to prioritize trade via aristofarms and hold off on FtH until then.

At present I am at turn 162 and 1 turn from teching trade. Tech order was agr>ac>mys>cal>cra>min>exp>edu>col>fish>wri>sail>trade (bulbed phil). Economically I'm at 75 @100% and 60 @100% with Midgar running research and Braduk building the Heron Throne. Aristofarms are producing nicely but it's definetely time for some slaves and a boat.

Midgar picked up the Bone Palace and that helped building a lot. OO, FoL, and RoK were all founded by turn 106 so there was no option for early religion. Maybe I'll go for AV after I get WotW.

I think it is finally time for FtH. I'll keep you posted.
If anyone has any criticisms or comments I'd be happy to see them

 

[papa john]

This has been a rewarding game for me. I have learned a lot but, the more I learn, the more questions I have.

I have played through to turn 298 and I am presently in first place with a slight lead in technology and a big cultural lead.

Casting For the Horde late (turn 163) yeilded some interesting results. I was able to trade techs and maps at that point so within a few turns I had contacted 7 civs and through trading, I got a fairly comprehensive map of the world and picked up a lot of early techs I had skipped. There was no real possibility of conquering anything as the Barbs who converted were scattered and none had more than 6-8 xp. No Frostlings converted either. I am wondering if they can.

Another interesting thing was the great commander who converted to my civ when I cast For the Horde. I didn't know the Barbs had great commanders.

Presently, I am reserching Iron Working and building the Infernal Grimoire to lightbulb Mithril Working. I have not built an army at all yet, (8 warriors, 1 goblin, 1 great commander) as there has been no possibility of an invasion . I do know that Auric Ulvin finished the circumnavigation recently but I have not seen any sign of his ships and I have good relations with him. No other civ I have contact with has Optics yet but, I also know that the Ljosalfar and Doviello are big from the maps I have recieved. This makes me nervous but as far as I know, they don't even know where I am yet as I have not traded away my world map to anyone. Besides, they are probably at war with each other.

My plan is to grab some Mithril after I get Mithril working and build an army of Ogres and Ritualists led by Rosier and Rantine. Depending on my target, I will add an assortment of Diseased Corpses, Shamans, Wolf Riders, and Catapults. I am aiming for domination and/or culture for the victory.

prioritise Masonry above (almost) all else. Warrens are incredibly powerful (+ remember they work on non-combat units, too). Once you have Bronze Working as well, you should just be able to overrun your weaker neighbours with sheer numbers.

This makes it easy to build a big army fast. Thanks for the info. I had not noticed this before.


My first question is about Shammans. Can they learn tier 2 or 3 spells? Is there any reason to research the magic line?

Secondly, I would like some advice on developing culture. It is currently at 200/turn or so @0%. I have not won a cultural victory before and I am not sure how to do it. Anyone have any advice.

Finally, I feel like I am at a bit of a dead end research wise after I finish with the metal line. Some input on that would be appreciated.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

no worries, you'll probably need Mithril Weapons after Mithril working, which is even more expensive you can always research down the economic line, which is always good for everybody. shamans are adepts with a different name, they can learn lvl1 spells and upgrade to mages at lvl 4 just like any adept. don't try to go for a cultural victory unless you've been planning it. you need to get 3 cities ASAP and nurture their culture rate, keeping it as high as possible. shoot for Drama, join the overcouncil for early Liberty Civic, possibly adopt other culture-boosting civics, use lots of artist specialists and try to get wonders hall of kings, theatre of dreams and sylvien's perfect lyre. after you're comfy with your acquired techs you can turn your commerce-to-culture percentage through the roof, and possibly switch those 3 cities to building culture for an additional boost. remember that you're only as good as your worst culture-behemot city, so try to keep them on an even level ( sylvien's lyre works wonders here as you can shuffle it around the 3 cities as needed ) . your other cities will need to be churning out units to protect you from enemies. my favourite race for culture victory is the Kuriotates, but others are nice too, like the balseraphs, elohim and a couple others. embers, doviello and other warmongers are not recommended, as you won't be playing on your strengths

 

[heisenberg]

u forgot the Grigori worldspell great bard trick

 

[touchstone]

Another interesting thing was the great commander who converted to my civ when I cast For the Horde. I didn't know the Barbs had great commanders.

I believe the Dragon's Horde produces Great Commander points. At least, that's the only city where I've ever seen the Barbs produce a commander.

 

[popejubal]

I believe the Dragon's Horde produces Great Commander points. At least, that's the only city where I've ever seen the Barbs produce a commander.

Dragon's Horde also produces . Dragon's Horde + Sylvien's Perfect Lyre are giving me a second border pop at 300 (epic) in new cities at an insane pace. I just discovered Deception, converted the Nightshade into an Assassin and stole the Dragon's Horde (and Orthus's Axe) from the Barbarians. No combat necessary.

When I get Beastmasters, I'll go back for the dragon himself.