Strategy or AI glitch?

[DarkSchneider]

Alright, I was playing Civ last night and I ran into an interesting situation. Catherine the Great had declared war on me while the bulk of my army was fighting the evil Mali Malians, so far away to the NorthEast that they couldn't possibly return. Much to my suprise, a single longbowman stationed in a walled, hilled town, was able to kill off over half of her army, including all of her knights (this is not the glitch) Once those units were gone, I was able to mop up her remaining units with the few pikemen, knights I had stationed on the border. What's interesting is, I talked with her a few turns later, and she was willing to give me 2 technologies she was previously unwilling to trade, just to make peace with me! This seems like a serious glitch, none of her towns were in any danger, in fact, without allowing open borders, I couldn't even get to any of them. All I really did was school her army.

So what do you think, strategy or glitch? If this works consistently, it makes teching a whole lot easier.

 

[Legionary37]

You probably defeated her main force. I wouldn't be surprised if this new AI takes into account troops strengthes and numbers. Since she just lost so much, perhaps the AI decided it would be best to make peace.

 

[Goombaz]

Stupid me, I did the reverse of that once Never attack a castled town on a hill with those longbowmen in it. *shudders*

 

[Gorbad Ironclaw]

Sounds like thats what happened to me.

After wiping out her army she just wanted to make peace as quickly as possible to avoid an extended war with an obviously Superior army.

 

[King Jason]

Aye, she was probably thinking "oh... man... I just got owned."

So she wanted to sign peace immediately.

And even so, if it were a glitch, you could always look at it as if she was terrified of your unbeatable soldiers anyway. So basically it's win win.

grats on the new techs.

 

[woodelf]

Thankfully you had an up to date longbowman in that city and not some obsolete warrior.

I'm learning the hard way to keep the border city units modern.

 

[joethreeblah]

In my first game, evil China wanted to give me 200 gold for peace, but I wasn't done (wanted to conquer a city), so I declined. After doing so, I tried to get him to give me money and now he wanted money from me!

What is he up to? I noticed some catapaults rolling along...

 

[taraba]

I was in a game with Genghis Khan as a neighbor and declared war on me with some axeman, pikeman, war elephants and archers. Well, I was technologically more advanced, but didn't build any of the new units since I wasn't being warlike. I upgraded my old units and started churning out infantry and artillery as he moved closer. He didn't take out one of my units and lost most of his so after a few turns he offered peace and 200 gold. I accepted and then kept churning out infantry and tanks to cleanse the world of the Mongol scum.

 

[dzl78]

Maybe the walled-city-on-the-hill is a little over powered. The last game I played with an earth like map, and I started settling onto the new world after the discovery of the Astronomy. Of course with aeon of barbarism the continent is filled "aboriginal" cities. And I started seriously "naturalizing" those tribal cities after I achieved dominance on the old continent. So I thought with tanks (artillery would be an overkill, I thought, as tanks have colleteral damage) this task would be a walk in the park.

But boy was I wrong, in conquering 2 cities (Visigoth and Miloan) founded on the hill with walls and guarded with 4 Longbow mans each, I lost 4 tanks in the process!!!! I mean COME-ON!!!! Watch my tanks (all of them has lost some hit points, but none lost past 1/3) defeated by some crippled longbow man is a surreal experience. I thought the old spearman-defeating-tank problem has been solved ...

 

[Corbeau]

It's not all that unrealistic (the AI peace thing). Think about it, if a nation declares war on another nation, and follows up by having their army destroyed utterly, do you really think they're going to wait until your bring back your main force before they sue for peace?

I know I'd prefer you to continue going after the same civ you were originally fighting rather than having you invade my nation. Especially when my top-of-the-line field army just got whipped by your garrison troops.

 

[Bevertje]

Maybe the walled-city-on-the-hill is a little over powered. The last game I played with an earth like map, and I started settling onto the new world after the discovery of the Astronomy. Of course with aeon of barbarism the continent is filled "aboriginal" cities. And I started seriously "naturalizing" those tribal cities after I achieved dominance on the old continent. So I thought with tanks (artillery would be an overkill, I thought, as tanks have colleteral damage) this task would be a walk in the park.

But boy was I wrong, in conquering 2 cities (Visigoth and Miloan) founded on the hill with walls and guarded with 4 Longbow mans each, I lost 4 tanks in the process!!!! I mean COME-ON!!!! Watch my tanks (all of them has lost some hit points, but none lost past 1/3) defeated by some crippled longbow man is a surreal experience. I thought the old spearman-defeating-tank problem has been solved ...

could someone explain to me, why those longbowmen on a walled hill are so good? i don't know the game very well yet, but i guess they have only +75% strength, so tanks still have much more strength

 

[Shillen]

Hmm I've never had that experience. Usually when the AI declares war on me and I fight defensively they want me to give them a city for peace even though I killed their units at a 10 to 1 clip.

 

[spa]

Could be that with the huge chunk of Catherine's forces gone and with two wars, the AI reasoned that it had no realistic chance of gaining anything from a war with you so best to end it ASAP.

 

[Khaim]

could someone explain to me, why those longbowmen on a walled hill are so good? i don't know the game very well yet, but i guess they have only +75% strength, so tanks still have much more strength

Longbows in a city on a hill, with walls, have +25% from city defense, +25% from hill defense, +50% from walls, +25% from fortification, whatever the culture defense is (I don't remember if barbs ever get that), and any promotions it has. So that's at least +125%, possibly more.

Of course, that still only comes to 13.5, which makes me wonder. Even if you throw in a castle (+50%) and some culture, say +60%, that still only gets you 6 +235% = 20. What is a tank's power again?

 

[Vael]

Tank's Strength is 28. Were you attacking with full-strength units?

Must bring more artillery...

 

[abbamouse]

It seems the AI is less concerned in Civ IV than in Civ III whether you have troops close to AI cities. I've noticed that the Civ III strategy of stationing a weak force near multiple enemy cities just prior to negotiating peace no longer works. This is good, but unfortunately the AI in Civ IV sometimes seems unwilling to hand over a city even if its defenses have been crushed and the Modern Armor are about roll down Main Street. However, they will offer techs and cash to stop a war when the only thing that's happened is that their invading army was defeated -- even when I lack the capability to threaten any of their cities.

I'm increasingly convinced that the AI in Civ IV is not better than that in Civ III, but just different.

As a side note, Civ III kicked my --- when I first played it, even on Warlord level. On the other hand, I won the first two Noble-level games I played in Civ IV. I think the offense-defense balanced has been so skewed towards "turtle" strategies that builders like me will find it far too easy to win the space, culture, or diplomatic victories. We realize war doesn't pay in Civ IV -- the AI doesn't, and misallocates its resources accordingly.

Exception: Praetorians make war pay. Pay big.