Stupid Question about Cultural Flipping
- Thread starter speedy55
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1. To get cultural turnovers you simply need to build enough culture in your border cities so your border creeps into an opposing civilization's culture radius and eventually pushes up against the opposing city. If you hover your mouse over an opposing civilization's city, you can see what percentage of that city actually belongs to that civ. (23% Roman) If you see a low number you can ussually assume the rest of that cities citizens must be of your nationality and therefore there is a high chance of a revolt taking place, however the actual chance is figured through a myriad of factors such as relgions/population/nationality/happiness/soldiers. If you place a spy in that city you can see the actual 'chance of revolt' when you hover your mouse over the city nationality box. When the opposing city revolts, you will be informed, but the first revolt is only a warning. If the opposing civilization doesn't do something to raise his city's culture it will revolt again shortly. When the second revolt occurs the city joins your civilization. You get the choice to keep the city or disband it.
2. Both
3. It's not paticularly hard to do, just produce a lot of culture, it also helps to spread your state religion to the city you're trying to flip. It just takes a long time to pull off, and if the opposing city is sufficiently developed may be impossible unless you are producing a TON of culture. (In one cultural victory, epic length, I had a city producing close to 1.5k culture per turn)
1. To get cultural turnovers you simply need to build enough culture in your border cities so your border creeps into an opposing civilization's culture radius and eventually pushes up against the opposing city. If you hover your mouse over an opposing civilization's city, you can see what percentage of that city actually belongs to that civ. (23% Roman) If you see a low number you can ussually assume the rest of that cities citizens must be of your nationality and therefore there is a high chance of a revolt taking place, however the actual chance is figured through a myriad of factors such as relgions/population/nationality/happiness/soldiers. If you place a spy in that city you can see the actual 'chance of revolt' when you hover your mouse over the city nationality box. When the opposing city revolts, you will be informed, but the first revolt is only a warning. If the opposing civilization doesn't do something to raise his city's culture it will revolt again shortly. When the second revolt occurs the city joins your civilization. You get the choice to keep the city or disband it.
2. Both
3. It's not paticularly hard to do, just produce a lot of culture, it also helps to spread your state religion to the city you're trying to flip. It just takes a long time to pull off, and if the opposing city is sufficiently developed may be impossible unless you are producing a TON of culture. (In one cultural victory, epic length, I had a city producing close to 1.5k culture per turn)
CliftonBazaar
Prince
It's harder to do on harder levels. Also note that you can turn this option off when you start the game.
If one of your cities revolts then place lots of military in the city and increase the culture produced - this can be done by building a theatre and having 2 artist specialists.
If one of your cities revolts then place lots of military in the city and increase the culture produced - this can be done by building a theatre and having 2 artist specialists.
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
i've done a lot of culture games, but that statement puzzles me. if i give him a religion there he didn't have before, he now has access to buildings to make more culture to fight back (if he's smart enough). how does it help?
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
hmmz, could be. what if they have the same state religion you do?
the whole formula is wacky. it considers the military units in the city, and what type they are (like rifleman count higher than warriors) ... but not who the units belong to.
i know that even capitols can be flipped but i've never had it happen. washington was surrounded by me forever, and closed borders so he couldn't move any troops in, but nothing. then the VERY turn before my third city went legendary, it did the first revolt. i should go back to that save and see how long it takes to flip.
it's a cool way to get rid of a city that realllllly annoys you, because you get the option to raze it, but you don't get the 'you razed one of our cities!' diplomatic penalty.
the whole formula is wacky. it considers the military units in the city, and what type they are (like rifleman count higher than warriors) ... but not who the units belong to.
i know that even capitols can be flipped but i've never had it happen. washington was surrounded by me forever, and closed borders so he couldn't move any troops in, but nothing. then the VERY turn before my third city went legendary, it did the first revolt. i should go back to that save and see how long it takes to flip.
it's a cool way to get rid of a city that realllllly annoys you, because you get the option to raze it, but you don't get the 'you razed one of our cities!' diplomatic penalty.
Bushface
Deity
KMadCandy - re your sig - does playing at "diety" level put you off your food ?
Öjevind Lång
Deity
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I once had one of Augustus' cities completely surrounded by my territory and saw it shrink. I expected it to shrink to the basic tile and then flip to me, but instead it proceeded to grow again and refused to come over to me. Then I looked closer at the city and saw that Augustus had built the Globe Theatre there, so the citizens simply could not revolt and join my side. A trick to keep in mind.
BeefontheBone
Windbag of the sea
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Revolts and revolutions have, I'm almost certain, nothing to do with angry citizens (in civ 4) - I suspec the (IIRC) +10 cpt from the Globe Theater was the bit that was helping him out.
I believe the state religion thing only helps if you control the holy city. Could be wrong though.
I believe the state religion thing only helps if you control the holy city. Could be wrong though.
feldmarshall
Dictator
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2007
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why dont you take it over instead of razing it? I think raze option is only useful in wartime because your enemy will not be able to take it back
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
oh a couple times i've had pesky little AI cities that 100% annoy me. they're badly placed, in the way of my real city, and just irk my sense of perfection. so those, if i flip, i raze. i'm talking about cases where i own all the land around it anyway, so it's not like i'd gain tiles i need if i'm going for a domination victory by keeping it, or risk them coming back in to settle again. i've kept some, ones that were far enough away from my real cities to not be a nuisance, and claimed resources i hadn't had til i started taking over the tiles, stuff like that.
i played a really weird game once, based on a thread i saw here. it was a no barbs, pangaea game, only victory condition enabled was domination. the weird thing was ... always peace! so i had to get 63% of the land tiles or whatever strictly through culture. it was all about careful placement of cities, pumping out the culture ASAP near their capitals, not opening borders so they couldn't sneak past me, that sort of thing. it was fun and suspenseful and definitely a break from warmongering.
Clovis
Charlemagne's Grandfather
Read this article by Sulla. http://www.garath.net/Sullla/civ4_epic8_1.html
Galileo44
Great Scientist
Yes, that is a good example of the power of culture. Also, Sullla has a report of a game he played for an Always Peace Domination. Very interesting. If you look in the SG forum there is another game with the same intention.
CliftonBazaar
Prince
I have had my capital flip - Immortal game, standard size with 18 civs - we all had 2 cities and my capital flipped to the Chinese
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
I have had my capital flip - Immortal game, standard size with 18 civs - we all had 2 cities and my capital flipped to the Chinese
awesome! not to laugh at your pain, but it does give me hope. i'm on a quest to eventually become the worst quattromaster ever, and you're #5 even with this having happened to you
.I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way. Flipping is done through culture pure and simple. There's no other mechanism that I know of that will have any affect. You're just making it easier for the other civ to hold on to the city by alowing it to build Temples etc. if you send in a Missionary to convert it.
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
i doubted you at first about this. but it turns out you are correct.
formula here.
the whole thing makes my head hurt but the last steps of the calculation are:
"next double the strength if the city has your state religion and finally halve the strength if the city has their state religion"
i dug for that formula in response to another thread today, i remembered that i'd seen it somewhere. and when i saw the religion part i remembered this thread. thanks blaarg, i'd ignored that before! i just went by the theory that if i give 'em religion, i give 'em the ability to make temples and even worse, cathedrals!
Apparently, this will happen just for the hell of it, because the computer has ultimate control over the game. I wiped out the Arabians and razed most of their cities, but I held onto Baghdad for whatever reason. It had a German (neighbors) revolt or two, but the first chance I got, I rushed production to build a theater to expand its borders, because the Germans were bordering it and I didn't want the city to flip or lose any resource tiles. Things were quiet for a while, its borders expanded, and I had five gunships in the city. Amazingly, in one of those moments that proves the computer cheats for the AI, the stupid city flipped to the Germans.
To see if I could change the course of this crap, I loaded the game a few turns back and rushed production of a coliseum, hoping that might make some of the stupid populace happy. Ha, not quite. Despite having a theater and coliseum, the douchebags flipped to the Germans. Come on, get real -- I captured the city and it flips to another civ? I've played Civ I, II, III, and now IV, and I've seen some big-time crap (including the desecration of armors against the likes of crap phalanxes and impis), but this is one of them that ranks up there.
To see if I could change the course of this crap, I loaded the game a few turns back and rushed production of a coliseum, hoping that might make some of the stupid populace happy. Ha, not quite. Despite having a theater and coliseum, the douchebags flipped to the Germans. Come on, get real -- I captured the city and it flips to another civ? I've played Civ I, II, III, and now IV, and I've seen some big-time crap (including the desecration of armors against the likes of crap phalanxes and impis), but this is one of them that ranks up there.
playshogi
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2001
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- 1,479
It is ironic, but what is so unrealistic about it? That city was under cultural pressure from the Germans before you captured it and when you captured it, you wiped out the previous owner's culture so they had the superior culture and it flipped to them. In Iraq it seems some of the cities may have already 'flipped' to Iran because of it's cultural influence.
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