Subdued Sea Animals Modification

ecawilson

Warlord
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Oct 9, 2014
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133
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Indiana, GMT-4
User in Discord General "Otto" Urist noticed a problem and asked a question just a little over 24 hours ago. In conversation and light research, a few inconsistencies came to light:
1) Subdued Sea Animals aren't possible to attain, currently, until the tech Commercial Whaling, a Medieval era tech, and those are only the smallest sea animals.
2) The Naval Standards (Animal mascot) building is only possible to build with subdued animals... or is available for free on Classical (instead of Medieval or Industrial) or later starts.
3) The larger Subdued Sea Animals aren't possible to attain, currently, until the tech Marine Biology, an Industrial Era tech.
4) The Master Sea Hunter building can only be built with a larger Subdued Sea Animal... or is available for free on Classical (instead of Medieval or Industrial) or later starts.
5) The Master Sea Hunter building benefits wooden (and less so, steam) ships built in that city, but wooden ships become obsolete in one of the first techs of the Industrial era.
6) The Wonders of the Deep building can only be built with a larger Subdued Sea Animal... or is available for free on Medieval (instead of Industrial) or later starts.
7) Saltwater crocodile definitions appear to be off, with the larger one much more difficult to subdue than any other sea animal, and the smaller one being defined as larger in some ways and smaller in others, making it the most valuable sea animal in the game until and through the Industrial Era.

A suggestion was that large sea animals be subdued at a different tech, probably Seafaring in the Ancient era, and that small sea animals be subdued at Sailing in the Ancient era. Another possibility is make is so that the Master Sea Hunter building (and other buildings) is not tied to subdued animals, and is possible to build before the Industrial era.

I believe that this has minimal impact on balance of commerce and research, as the Tales units are (mostly) just as likely to appear as the Subdued units (currently in the code), the only difference being the tech threshold. In addition, the Subdued units have all the same missions available to them as the Tales units, and then also have the 3 buildings I mentioned above, and a few others like Aquarium that are already gated at higher techs.
I believe this will have a slightly larger impact on sea units built by the player and AI, and lead to more value in hunting in the sea for civs that will later need to engage in naval warfare, as well as a slightly higher likelihood of Classical era boats surviving against barbarians or other non-promoted naval units.

Are there balance issues I haven't thought of? Am I incorrect in my assessment in how much this will impact current balance? Will this impact current members' projects?
 
2) The Naval Standards (Animal mascot) building is only possible to build with subdued animals... or is available for free on Classical (instead of Medieval or Industrial) or later starts.

Can't a building be built with a great hunter or general, that gives a free standard in all cities? Using my phone right now so can't access pedia.
 
2) [...]
Can't a building be built with a great hunter or general, that gives a free standard in all cities? Using my phone right now so can't access pedia.
Yep. My bad. I just looked at the requirements for the Standard, but the Tradition does allow an automatic Standard in every city. So, good call there.
Doesn't change my preference for an update, though. Waste a Great Person on an animal mascot...?
 
Another point to add is that strangely pirates on auto pirate make the best sea hunters even in the modern era. Only down side is on easier difficulties you end up dominating the water. I sort of fixed by using XML modifications to make it easier for AI to get pirate units.
 
Another point to add is that strangely pirates on auto pirate make the best sea hunters even in the modern era. Only down side is on easier difficulties you end up dominating the water. I sort of fixed by using XML modifications to make it easier for AI to get pirate units.
I'll keep that in mind when I eventually get back to more naval unit evaluations for the AI plan. Just as someone proposed earlier (and I hope they meant it) to insert some naval hunting units, we'll need a good Naval hunting AI to go with it.
 
I'll keep that in mind when I eventually get back to more naval unit evaluations for the AI plan. Just as someone proposed earlier (and I hope they meant it) to insert some naval hunting units, we'll need a good Naval hunting AI to go with it.
Since we're already on topic here I'm getting this python error in the pedia page for the first sea hunter, do you know what might be causing it? The file path is .../Modules/MyMods/SeaHunter
 

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Since we're already on topic here I'm getting this python error in the pedia page for the first sea hunter, do you know what might be causing it? The file path is .../Modules/MyMods/SeaHunter
The unit that that that unit can upgrade to doesn't exist.

I've never seen that Wader unit, is it a modmod?
 
The unit that that that unit can upgrade to doesn't exist.

I've never seen that Wader unit, is it a modmod?
Thanks, that makes sense. In so used to the vanilla XML layout so it's a bit confusing working in C2C.

I'm working on a little modmod to add dedicated sea hunter units (that are also workboats). This is the very first, basically some guys swimming close to shore to catch fish. All sea terrain is impassible for it, but since your borders void that, it can swim around your borders.
 
Just want to quickly say I started some test games on Classical and even Medieval era, but didn't find any Master Sea Hunters or Naval Standards in my cities.

I don't know how things works under the hood so I don't know if their free build was deliberately disabled or something just borked at some point.

I'm working on a little modmod to add dedicated sea hunter units (that are also workboats). This is the very first, basically some guys swimming close to shore to catch fish. All sea terrain is impassible for it, but since your borders void that, it can swim around your borders.
Yeah, makes sense you'd have dedicated sea hunters. fishing boats, whalers, trawlers, etc.

A ship that is restricted to your cultural borders is an interesting idea, but don't sea animals flee from your cultural borders immediately? You're not gonna catch much.
 
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